I've been playing mental gymnastics for quite some time now while thinking of all the ways to make this character archetype work. I've read the Grappler 2.0 handbook on EnWorld more times than I can count and I'm still not satisfied with an outcome for a Str based Unarmed melee character.
Obviously, this character would not be optimized. This is purely a concept >> crunch thought process. My goal would be to make a fist fighter/pugilist style PC (yes, I've read the Homebrew by Sterlingvermin) that is a melee support character specializing in locking down enemies via grappling and/or spells that uses bare fists and is effective outside of combat. High melee damage is a plus, but not the core concept of this character.
Here are my favorite builds so far:
1. Valor bard - One stop shop. Expertise on athletics. Decent armor proficiency and access to buff and debuff spells. Plus a good number of skills.
2. Rogue - Squishier, but tons of skills and playing a thug is really appealing to me. Expertise for athletics.
3. Rogue/Barbarian - Same as Rogue with rageing to boost fist attacks seems hilarious. This would mostly be a rogue build with a splash of Barbarian for rage and +Con to AC for shirtless beefiness.
4. Fighter/Rogue - Full plate fighter (battlemaster). Punching people to trip, push, etc. sounds fun with plenty of RP potential.
5. Fighter/Bard - Same as Fighter/Rogue but with spells.
6. Monk - The elephant in the room. Yes, obviously you can just use strength for unarmed attacks. Yes, you can flavor the monk as a street fighter/boxer, etc. I've done up the build several times and while I'm not going for optimization this build is crazy MAD!! I'd love to make a monk work, everything I want is there, but the feel is off.
My problem is that they ALL seem fun. What's your favorite and why?
If I'm not mistaken the Tavern Brawler Feat gives you a d4 unarmed attack. Variant Human Fighter/Barbarian focused on STR. Take Two Weapon Fighting Fighting Style so you can one-two punch enemies.
Thanks for the response. You're not wrong. In fact most of the builds I mentioned, other than the Monk, I would prioritize Tavern Brawler as my first feat.
I should have clarified a bit more, what class features/abilities and/or spells would be a good fit for the idea.
The two-weapon fighting style one-two-punch sounds fun!
For a RAW game, I would mix Monk and barbarian. actual build depends on the level limit, but I would go to 2nd or 3rd in monk, and the rest Barb (probably Frenzy, but totem could work for a more tanky build.) Use Barbarian Unarmored AC, and Monk Martial Arts, for which STR based Unarmed attacks still qualify. By Monk 3/Barb 5 you will have 3 attacks per turn, with 3 ki to spend on getting a fourth attack. Alternatively, switch the two, and go Barb 3/Monk 5, for increased Ki to spend, and a greater martial arts die. By using Barb AC you can ignore Wis, making CON DEX and STR your only required stats..
For a non-RAW game, just use Monk, and change the Dex in AC to Str, making a nice Horse-style monk that relies on raw muscle density to tank blows, rather than dodge them.
I think levels 2-7 will be Monk to get extra attack and magic fists barring no magic weapons. If I received a magic weapon I would probably stop at 5 for monk until level 3-4 Barbarian for bear totem (reskin as Ki aura for resistance when raging).
I played a dwarf barbarian (battlerager) with 18 Str and the Tavern Brawler feat by 4th level. For MOST of the game, he was grappling people, punching, kicking, headbutting...it was great. The Rage was especially useful because of the Resistance to B/S/P attacks AND the advantage you get on Str-based checks (athletics) helped keep opponents from escaping. He also tag-teamed with the wizard who would cast Create Bonfire under whomever I was holding, or when I was done with that guy I'd just drag someone else into the fire!
I've had similar ideas for this same concept but have never fully explored it. At the time I was thinking about either a monk/rogue or monk/fighter. In my opinion it makes much more sense to take a class in monk over wasting a feat on Tavern Brawler. Depending on character race/background it can be flavored in such a way where the monk parts are focused more on an internal strength and grit as opposed to the more traditional training/zen aspects of the monk. I find this especially true for rogue tough guy characters. Throw those classes on a human or half-orc to make them extra scrappy.
As for the monk/barbarian path... it seems definitely viable with some good options (as all the class combos can be) but I would personally rather make a monk archetype that gains features like a barbarian. That options seems to be much more complete to me.
Go Valor Bard 18/ Paladin 2. Focus your spell slots on buffs like haste, heroism and longstrider and use the rest of them as smites with your haymakers
I've done this several times as a Battlemaster Fighter. The four attacks help as does the Combat Superiority Die, but mostly I play unconventionally when I do this. I Shove off cliffs, Pin and Choke, set up the Coup De Grace, Throw Whiskey Bottles; less traditional damage and more figuring out how to fight dirty. Part of the problem is that this particular style's success depends on the DM to some extent.
The rogue level is for expertise in Athletics and the 1d6 SA. Got a Belt of Fire Giant Strength to offset the average Str, pumped Str and Con, kept a mid Wis. So he grapples A LOT. And he uses a magic dagger as his main weapon, doing a lot of punches. He does a TON of damage, decent AC, high HP, half damage from everything, also, Danger Sense and Evasion means AOEs don’t touch him. Considering taking fighter levels for Action Surge and Battle Master, cause his one move is basically punching dudes. (He’s a good sneak and disarmer too).
I had a Barbarian 5(Bear)/Monk 10 (Open Hand) that worked really well, though I did not start him out with the goal of punching things. There was a Monk NPC in our game that inspired my character to switch over by around 3rd level. I would have made the change after 3rd level but wanted that 4th level ASI and then the 5th level extra attack.
Because of the Barbarian's CON for AC, WIS was relatively unimportant and DEX is a good stat for everyone really.
GMGtR Minotaur gives a D6 unarmed strike and shove as a bonus action, also increases STR by 2 and CON by 1.
If we go (All 20 levels) barbarian, we get unarmored defense (10+DEX+CON) and incredible physical endurance (Rage, relentless endurance, D12 hit die), both hallmarks of a pugilist. Zealot allows you to match a standard barbarian in damage, not to mention the magical damage type it also provides. Above all, makes sense while leveling, AC and Damage is a bit all over the place but matches the level 60% of the time, it also has you mainly leveling STR, CON and DEX to a lower extent.
There, you've just created a decent bouncer character, could get tavern brawler and grappler and still reach 24 in both STR and CON. Have fun.
I would say take 1 level in fighter for second wind and unarmed fighting, then go full barb, with raging you have advantage on strength checks folks will have a hard time trying to escape your grapples, and you could even go the extra mile and take variant human with the xgte prodigy feat with expertise in athletics.
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Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
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I've been playing mental gymnastics for quite some time now while thinking of all the ways to make this character archetype work. I've read the Grappler 2.0 handbook on EnWorld more times than I can count and I'm still not satisfied with an outcome for a Str based Unarmed melee character.
Obviously, this character would not be optimized. This is purely a concept >> crunch thought process. My goal would be to make a fist fighter/pugilist style PC (yes, I've read the Homebrew by Sterlingvermin) that is a melee support character specializing in locking down enemies via grappling and/or spells that uses bare fists and is effective outside of combat. High melee damage is a plus, but not the core concept of this character.
Here are my favorite builds so far:
1. Valor bard - One stop shop. Expertise on athletics. Decent armor proficiency and access to buff and debuff spells. Plus a good number of skills.
2. Rogue - Squishier, but tons of skills and playing a thug is really appealing to me. Expertise for athletics.
3. Rogue/Barbarian - Same as Rogue with rageing to boost fist attacks seems hilarious. This would mostly be a rogue build with a splash of Barbarian for rage and +Con to AC for shirtless beefiness.
4. Fighter/Rogue - Full plate fighter (battlemaster). Punching people to trip, push, etc. sounds fun with plenty of RP potential.
5. Fighter/Bard - Same as Fighter/Rogue but with spells.
6. Monk - The elephant in the room. Yes, obviously you can just use strength for unarmed attacks. Yes, you can flavor the monk as a street fighter/boxer, etc. I've done up the build several times and while I'm not going for optimization this build is crazy MAD!! I'd love to make a monk work, everything I want is there, but the feel is off.
My problem is that they ALL seem fun. What's your favorite and why?
If I'm not mistaken the Tavern Brawler Feat gives you a d4 unarmed attack. Variant Human Fighter/Barbarian focused on STR. Take Two Weapon Fighting Fighting Style so you can one-two punch enemies.
BrutusSuperior,
Thanks for the response. You're not wrong. In fact most of the builds I mentioned, other than the Monk, I would prioritize Tavern Brawler as my first feat.
I should have clarified a bit more, what class features/abilities and/or spells would be a good fit for the idea.
The two-weapon fighting style one-two-punch sounds fun!
*
For a RAW game, I would mix Monk and barbarian. actual build depends on the level limit, but I would go to 2nd or 3rd in monk, and the rest Barb (probably Frenzy, but totem could work for a more tanky build.) Use Barbarian Unarmored AC, and Monk Martial Arts, for which STR based Unarmed attacks still qualify. By Monk 3/Barb 5 you will have 3 attacks per turn, with 3 ki to spend on getting a fourth attack. Alternatively, switch the two, and go Barb 3/Monk 5, for increased Ki to spend, and a greater martial arts die. By using Barb AC you can ignore Wis, making CON DEX and STR your only required stats..
For a non-RAW game, just use Monk, and change the Dex in AC to Str, making a nice Horse-style monk that relies on raw muscle density to tank blows, rather than dodge them.
Lanliss,
Thanks! This gives me a good idea for a build :)
Not a problem, happy to help.
My current build based on the above comments.
Half Orc
S: 12(+2) D: 14 C: 15(+1) I: 8 W: 13 Ch: 10
Lvl 1 Barbarian, HP: 15, AC: 15
I think levels 2-7 will be Monk to get extra attack and magic fists barring no magic weapons. If I received a magic weapon I would probably stop at 5 for monk until level 3-4 Barbarian for bear totem (reskin as Ki aura for resistance when raging).
Thoughts?
Looks good. Should be interesting in play, especially once you drop your weapon and get serious.
I played a dwarf barbarian (battlerager) with 18 Str and the Tavern Brawler feat by 4th level. For MOST of the game, he was grappling people, punching, kicking, headbutting...it was great. The Rage was especially useful because of the Resistance to B/S/P attacks AND the advantage you get on Str-based checks (athletics) helped keep opponents from escaping. He also tag-teamed with the wizard who would cast Create Bonfire under whomever I was holding, or when I was done with that guy I'd just drag someone else into the fire!
I've had similar ideas for this same concept but have never fully explored it. At the time I was thinking about either a monk/rogue or monk/fighter. In my opinion it makes much more sense to take a class in monk over wasting a feat on Tavern Brawler. Depending on character race/background it can be flavored in such a way where the monk parts are focused more on an internal strength and grit as opposed to the more traditional training/zen aspects of the monk. I find this especially true for rogue tough guy characters. Throw those classes on a human or half-orc to make them extra scrappy.
As for the monk/barbarian path... it seems definitely viable with some good options (as all the class combos can be) but I would personally rather make a monk archetype that gains features like a barbarian. That options seems to be much more complete to me.
Go Valor Bard 18/ Paladin 2.
Focus your spell slots on buffs like haste, heroism and longstrider and use the rest of them as smites with your haymakers
I've done this several times as a Battlemaster Fighter. The four attacks help as does the Combat Superiority Die, but mostly I play unconventionally when I do this. I Shove off cliffs, Pin and Choke, set up the Coup De Grace, Throw Whiskey Bottles; less traditional damage and more figuring out how to fight dirty. Part of the problem is that this particular style's success depends on the DM to some extent.
I have a fairly high level Str based Monk I’ve used in AL.
Genserik Bearcharger
Bugbear Rogue1/Barbarian 3(Bear)/Monk 8(Open Hand)
The rogue level is for expertise in Athletics and the 1d6 SA. Got a Belt of Fire Giant Strength to offset the average Str, pumped Str and Con, kept a mid Wis. So he grapples A LOT. And he uses a magic dagger as his main weapon, doing a lot of punches. He does a TON of damage, decent AC, high HP, half damage from everything, also, Danger Sense and Evasion means AOEs don’t touch him. Considering taking fighter levels for Action Surge and Battle Master, cause his one move is basically punching dudes. (He’s a good sneak and disarmer too).
Wow! Sounds like an awesome character! I like the idea of Bugbear for the extra range in melee, too. I'll have to workshop some ideas.
Thanks for the comment!
I had a Barbarian 5(Bear)/Monk 10 (Open Hand) that worked really well, though I did not start him out with the goal of punching things. There was a Monk NPC in our game that inspired my character to switch over by around 3rd level. I would have made the change after 3rd level but wanted that 4th level ASI and then the 5th level extra attack.
Because of the Barbarian's CON for AC, WIS was relatively unimportant and DEX is a good stat for everyone really.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
GMGtR Minotaur gives a D6 unarmed strike and shove as a bonus action, also increases STR by 2 and CON by 1.
If we go (All 20 levels) barbarian, we get unarmored defense (10+DEX+CON) and incredible physical endurance (Rage, relentless endurance, D12 hit die), both hallmarks of a pugilist. Zealot allows you to match a standard barbarian in damage, not to mention the magical damage type it also provides. Above all, makes sense while leveling, AC and Damage is a bit all over the place but matches the level 60% of the time, it also has you mainly leveling STR, CON and DEX to a lower extent.
There, you've just created a decent bouncer character, could get tavern brawler and grappler and still reach 24 in both STR and CON. Have fun.
All the classes i play are SAD, cause im also sad.
I would say take 1 level in fighter for second wind and unarmed fighting, then go full barb, with raging you have advantage on strength checks folks will have a hard time trying to escape your grapples, and you could even go the extra mile and take variant human with the xgte prodigy feat with expertise in athletics.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.