No, it’s popularity will ebb and flow, but it will never die completely. The biggest risk is a corporate licensing battle if Hasbro sells off Wizard of the Coast and the new buyer goes bankrupt or breaks up IP and sells it piecemeal, locking up official copyright.
But it will still be played, and people will still publish and share new material using the same core concept.
Like other folks have said it is the personal interaction that keeps people playing all forms of board games and TTRPGs. An AI while convenient would not and could not replace that.
It's like if somebody invented a poker AI then everybody would stop playing poker with people and would play only with AIs instead.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
6th hasn't given any reason not to NFT my NPCs. I mean if I take my NPCs to NFT and that would topple D&D, I may pause and think it over; but I'm still probably going to do it anyway.
What's the NAV on your NPC NFTs?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
6th hasn't given any reason not to NFT my NPCs. I mean if I take my NPCs to NFT and that would topple D&D, I may pause and think it over; but I'm still probably going to do it anyway.
It's not going to topple D&D since NFTs are kind of pointless anyways.
Like other folks have said it is the personal interaction that keeps people playing all forms of board games and TTRPGs. An AI while convenient would not and could not replace that.
It's like if somebody invented a poker AI then everybody would stop playing poker with people and would play only with AIs instead.
If the AI was good enough? Of course they would. Some wouldn't, but there would be an influx of new AI players.
as long as no one at WotC makes just a really horrible decision or five.
I mean they're about to release a book that you can only get if you buy two other extremely popular books you likely already own, all three of which contain what amounts to paid errata.
They released an Unearthed Arcana that had Giff that didn't have any firearm proficiency (inb4 "firearms are an optional rule", so are feats but the PHB has Vumans)
as long as no one at WotC makes just a really horrible decision or five.
I mean they're about to release a book that you can only get if you buy two other extremely popular books you likely already own, all three of which contain what amounts to paid errata.
They released an Unearthed Arcana that had Giff that didn't have any firearm proficiency (inb4 "firearms are an optional rule", so are feats but the PHB has Vumans)
It's not as unlikely as you'd think
You can get MP: MotM by itself in May if you want. I already preordered a copy.
as long as no one at WotC makes just a really horrible decision or five.
I mean they're about to release a book that you can only get if you buy two other extremely popular books you likely already own, all three of which contain what amounts to paid errata.
[...]
It's not as unlikely as you'd think
That's stretching it. They're releasing it individually, although granted there is a delay until May, but it's going to be available. MMM is not really errata. It's redoing the statblocks of monsters and combining two previous books. If you have those older books, there's no need to get MMM and doesn't negatively affect you. If you don't have them, then MotM is an excellent purchase that saves you money.
I'm not sure how selling not-out-of-date copies of XGtE and TCoE counts as paid errata, especially since the errata is available for free.
The only thing really I object to, other than pricing, is not making MotM available individually from the start. I'm not sure that rises to company threatening mistake, though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
VtM and the whole WoD crashed enormously.
They’re doing better now.
Hard, but really hard, disagree. What some people felt for 4th edition DnD I have for Paradox Interactives take on the WoD. Squared.
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
VtM and the whole WoD crashed enormously.
They’re doing better now.
Hard, but really hard, disagree. What some people felt for 4th edition DnD I have for Paradox Interactives take on the WoD. Squared.
I love V5. I think it’s the beginning of a new era for the WoD.
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
VtM and the whole WoD crashed enormously.
They’re doing better now.
Hard, but really hard, disagree. What some people felt for 4th edition DnD I have for Paradox Interactives take on the WoD. Squared.
I love V5. I think it’s the beginning of a new era for the WoD.
Good for you, and if this was another forum I would post a long, very long thread on why I loath this take on the WoD. But it would be really out of place.
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
I think you may have overlooked the Star Wars franchise there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
as long as no one at WotC makes just a really horrible decision or five.
I mean they're about to release a book that you can only get if you buy two other extremely popular books you likely already own, all three of which contain what amounts to paid errata.
They released an Unearthed Arcana that had Giff that didn't have any firearm proficiency (inb4 "firearms are an optional rule", so are feats but the PHB has Vumans)
It's not as unlikely as you'd think
Linklite already posted why your first point about MMM was factually inaccurate, so I will not address that.
To address the Giff, Unearthed Arcana is not final content and is designed to allow Wizards to play around with content and try something new. Perhaps they wanted to test out Giff that could be released in a non-Spelljammer, non-firearm setting. Perhaps they were trying to conceal the fact that they were considering making a setting with firearms so as not to spoil the setting. Perhaps they realized that many or most DMs allow any race in their games, but do not allow firearms, so they wanted something that could be planted anywhere without a player complaining "you are denying me my inherent racial benefits by not letting me use a gun." Those "perhapses" are the point of UA content.
Even assuming arguendo this is a mistake on their part, making changes to a race that has not really been seen since 3e is not the kind of mistake that brings down a company--not even if you multiply it a thousandfold and look at the aggregate.
Wizards managed to survive 6 years of 4e D&D, widely (and I would argue unfairly) regarded as a giant mistake through-and-through. It would take a lot of bad decisions on their part to lose their hegemony, and we just have not really seen anything close to the kind of mistake necessary in the totality of the 5e experience.
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
I think you may have overlooked the Star Wars franchise there.
Star Wars didn't start as a TTRPG. Nor did Star Trek, TSR's Marvel game, etc etc
Since you brought it up though, the fact that not even a Star Wars TTRPG could challenge D&D in terms of market share kind of speaks volumes about how hard it'll be to dethrone
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think, even if D&D ultimately gets overtaken by another game, at least in terms of "copies sold" and "active community", D&D will still remain the generic term for all of TTRPGs in pop culture and among the general public. Sort of like how, in the 90's, every videogame system was just "A Nintendo" for anyone who didn't actually pay attention to that kind of thing. Even if Vampire: The Masquerade comes out with a new edition that sweeps the TTRPG world off its feet, the average person will still recognize "Dungeons and Dragons" as just the generic term for TTRPGs... if you and your friends are trying to explain what you're doing rolling all those dice and speaking in weird voices to Grandma, you'll just have to say, "It's like Dungeons and Dragons, but everyone is Vampires."
VtM is also the only other TTRPG to get even a fraction of the general pop-culture exposure of D&D
When another system has multiple movies, animated TV shows etc. produced based on its lore(s), then maybe we can start talking about it overtaking D&D
I think you may have overlooked the Star Wars franchise there.
Star Wars didn't start as a TTRPG. Nor did Star Trek, TSR's Marvel game, etc etc
Since you brought it up though, the fact that not even a Star Wars TTRPG could challenge D&D in terms of market share kind of speaks volumes about how hard it'll be to dethrone
The WEG Star Wars RPG was arguably more popular than D&D in the mid and late '90s, which illustrates it all really - D&D had been so thoroughly mismanaged it was languishing (which set it up for being acquired by WotC in iirc 1997) while WEG was doing pretty much everything right; Fantasy Flight enjoyed a few good years after taking over the Star Wars RPG but haven't actually done well by it and WotC redeemed themselves with 5E (with some help from others), reversing that situation entirely. D&D can be run into the ground through incompetence, but that'd have to be much more egregious than with other TTRPGs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Hard, but really hard, disagree. What some people felt for 4th edition DnD I have for Paradox Interactives take on the WoD. Squared.
Objectively they *are* doing better now. That said, they aren't doing as well as they did back when they also had their own TV series, wrestler and computer games but appearantly quite a few people disagree with you. Just like people disagreed about 4E, I guess. :)
Hard, but really hard, disagree. What some people felt for 4th edition DnD I have for Paradox Interactives take on the WoD. Squared.
Objectively they *are* doing better now. That said, they aren't doing as well as they did back when they also had their own TV series, wrestler and computer games but appearantly quite a few people disagree with you. Just like people disagreed about 4E, I guess. :)
I hated 4e (to the extent I was aware of it at all) and I like the new V5 game, although ironically I’m playing a lot more 5e than V5 these days. Go figure 😊.
Though I don't want DnD to die, I hope that a slightly more crunchy alternative becomes as popular as DnD is.
The trend towards oversimplification is painful, and the 2024 edition looks like it's going to take that to the extreme. Having some actual alternatives would be nice, but DnD is so popular that finding a group for anything else isn't possible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No, it’s popularity will ebb and flow, but it will never die completely. The biggest risk is a corporate licensing battle if Hasbro sells off Wizard of the Coast and the new buyer goes bankrupt or breaks up IP and sells it piecemeal, locking up official copyright.
But it will still be played, and people will still publish and share new material using the same core concept.
Like other folks have said it is the personal interaction that keeps people playing all forms of board games and TTRPGs. An AI while convenient would not and could not replace that.
It's like if somebody invented a poker AI then everybody would stop playing poker with people and would play only with AIs instead.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
What's the NAV on your NPC NFTs?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's not going to topple D&D since NFTs are kind of pointless anyways.
If the AI was good enough? Of course they would. Some wouldn't, but there would be an influx of new AI players.
I mean they're about to release a book that you can only get if you buy two other extremely popular books you likely already own, all three of which contain what amounts to paid errata.
They released an Unearthed Arcana that had Giff that didn't have any firearm proficiency (inb4 "firearms are an optional rule", so are feats but the PHB has Vumans)
It's not as unlikely as you'd think
You can get MP: MotM by itself in May if you want. I already preordered a copy.
That's stretching it. They're releasing it individually, although granted there is a delay until May, but it's going to be available. MMM is not really errata. It's redoing the statblocks of monsters and combining two previous books. If you have those older books, there's no need to get MMM and doesn't negatively affect you. If you don't have them, then MotM is an excellent purchase that saves you money.
I'm not sure how selling not-out-of-date copies of XGtE and TCoE counts as paid errata, especially since the errata is available for free.
The only thing really I object to, other than pricing, is not making MotM available individually from the start. I'm not sure that rises to company threatening mistake, though.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
VtM and the whole WoD crashed enormously.
They’re doing better now.
Hard, but really hard, disagree. What some people felt for 4th edition DnD I have for Paradox Interactives take on the WoD. Squared.
I love V5. I think it’s the beginning of a new era for the WoD.
Good for you, and if this was another forum I would post a long, very long thread on why I loath this take on the WoD. But it would be really out of place.
I think you may have overlooked the Star Wars franchise there.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Linklite already posted why your first point about MMM was factually inaccurate, so I will not address that.
To address the Giff, Unearthed Arcana is not final content and is designed to allow Wizards to play around with content and try something new. Perhaps they wanted to test out Giff that could be released in a non-Spelljammer, non-firearm setting. Perhaps they were trying to conceal the fact that they were considering making a setting with firearms so as not to spoil the setting. Perhaps they realized that many or most DMs allow any race in their games, but do not allow firearms, so they wanted something that could be planted anywhere without a player complaining "you are denying me my inherent racial benefits by not letting me use a gun." Those "perhapses" are the point of UA content.
Even assuming arguendo this is a mistake on their part, making changes to a race that has not really been seen since 3e is not the kind of mistake that brings down a company--not even if you multiply it a thousandfold and look at the aggregate.
Wizards managed to survive 6 years of 4e D&D, widely (and I would argue unfairly) regarded as a giant mistake through-and-through. It would take a lot of bad decisions on their part to lose their hegemony, and we just have not really seen anything close to the kind of mistake necessary in the totality of the 5e experience.
Star Wars didn't start as a TTRPG. Nor did Star Trek, TSR's Marvel game, etc etc
Since you brought it up though, the fact that not even a Star Wars TTRPG could challenge D&D in terms of market share kind of speaks volumes about how hard it'll be to dethrone
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The WEG Star Wars RPG was arguably more popular than D&D in the mid and late '90s, which illustrates it all really - D&D had been so thoroughly mismanaged it was languishing (which set it up for being acquired by WotC in iirc 1997) while WEG was doing pretty much everything right; Fantasy Flight enjoyed a few good years after taking over the Star Wars RPG but haven't actually done well by it and WotC redeemed themselves with 5E (with some help from others), reversing that situation entirely. D&D can be run into the ground through incompetence, but that'd have to be much more egregious than with other TTRPGs.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Objectively they *are* doing better now. That said, they aren't doing as well as they did back when they also had their own TV series, wrestler and computer games but appearantly quite a few people disagree with you. Just like people disagreed about 4E, I guess. :)
I hated 4e (to the extent I was aware of it at all) and I like the new V5 game, although ironically I’m playing a lot more 5e than V5 these days. Go figure 😊.
Though I don't want DnD to die, I hope that a slightly more crunchy alternative becomes as popular as DnD is.
The trend towards oversimplification is painful, and the 2024 edition looks like it's going to take that to the extreme. Having some actual alternatives would be nice, but DnD is so popular that finding a group for anything else isn't possible.