so i'm a relatively new player. only played 3 and a half sessions of my first ever and current campaign and still very much learning and remembering the basics of everything.
when i met my current DM who invited me and friend (who's been playing for quite a while) to play his campaign after we had a negative experience with a different DM. i thought it was going to be a whimsical pirate themed campaign, which i was so happy and looking forward to, it worked with my character (Half Drow Monk pirate). so far doesn't seem to be the case but i can deal.
got through the first pre session so me and my friends characters were caught up and ready to join up with the already established party. we both enjoyed that. though the encounter was a little more then i was expecting. friend and i shrugged it off as a "oh its your first session, you'll learn" situation. to be fair we were told to some degree that the encounters were meant to challenge you which we were skeptic about but went with it since we were told it 60/40 RP to Combat.
"challenge" seems to be an understatement. Every session, during every encounter the party seems to end up on death saving throws one way or another, at one stage we lost a player at what was apparently meant to be a "moderately easy" encounter and ended up going to another realm to bring her back (get to the rest of that later).
i have shared my concerns with the DM about this and have said it feels like sadistic punishment and that i'm starting to not enjoy it. that to me a session should end with the mentality of "aww its over already, wish we could play longer" and not a "holy ****, i survived another day." Dm pretty much told me to suck it up cause he wasn't going to change the encounters cause they were "too hard for some" and should just "learn and build from the encounter". Which, sure he has a point, but doesn't make me eager for the next sessions.
back to my previous point. while we were in the other realm rescuing the party member (which i really had no reason for being there as i had known the party less then two days, and yet im risking my life and soul for someone that would rather stonewall me) we met the supposed god of the realm. he gave my character a choice. pick the guy i secretly have feelings for or the woman i barley know. i assumed this was a choice of uncertain death and being the nice monk i am and not wanting their death on my hands i gave him my name instead. i was prepared to sacrifice myself to keep them safe. the god found this amusing and agreed telling me to live with my consequences. he then comes to me in dream form asking what i truly desire. i told him nothing. i make do what im given in this world and he leaves me be.
next day we wind up in a tomb and accidentally open the coffin to the god we encountered the other day. he's not happy and sends down an undead dragon which pretty much kicks our asses. (we are all level 5 about to be level 6 if that helps for context) all of them but me are down (which i felt was very plot orientated). god dude comes back and asks if i was still prepared to deal with the consequences of my choices and i said yes thinking "ok he's really going to kill me" but he just asks for a simple hand shake which i did indeed shake and he disappears and thats pretty much end of session. 3 days later DM says "yo so next level you need to take a level in warlock" which i was kind of shocked and slightly angry cause apparently gods can leave out critical information and trick you into contracts you have no interest in being in to begin with. and now im about to become an unwilling warlock which i had no plans for at all.
am i over my head overthinking all this, is my DM a sadistic wack job or is all this reasonable. personally getting to the point where i feel id rather just let my character die and not come back to the sessions at all.
I can see where the DM is coming from, if the rest of the players like hard challenging combat (and he knows that from previous discussions) but you don't it is reasonable to keep the rest of the group happy.
Regarding you taking a level of warlock. When given the choice to pick the guy you have feeling for or the woman you barely know were you told they they would become its apprentice / servent / representive? A warlock is someone who make a pact with an other-worldly being and while a certain amount of trickery might be involved you know you are making such an agreement. If you had discussed with the DM that oy wanted to take levels of warlock this would be a cool way to do it.
In D&D decisions do have consequences, if you refuse to help a village which has seen a large group of Orcs camp near by the next time you go there you might find the village destroyed and everyone dead. Often there is a no win scenario if you stop to help the villages and delay your pursuit of the cult who had kidnapped the king maybe you find he is dead and meanwhile the cultist have a carbon copy of hime on the throne. Having said that as a DM I would never force a player to multiclass against their will. If a character controlled by an experienced player is offered to make a pact with a powerful entity they should be aware of what they are doing and the DM might consider that player consent but as a new player you would have know idea of where things were heading, and mechanically it will almost certainly make you weaker (Monk / Warlock is generally a very poor multiclass choice).
As you have described it, it does sound as if the DM is making no allowance for your lack of experience and is unwilling to do so and if that is the case your best option seems to be to leave the group.
There are groups and groups, it's hard for a bunch of random people in the internet to give you a proper view if there is anything that you are overthinking or not.
With that said, ultimately, DnD is a game that is meant for you to have fun. You are investing free time that you could be doing anything else, so, talk to your DM about your discomforts and, if he is unwilling to compromise on the things that you feel are crossing a line, politely leave the group and look for something that is more to your tastes.
One of the hardest parts of the hobby, imo, is meeting people that want to play the same game as you, tbh. Every DM is different (If you hop on the DM forum, you will see the amount of arguments that happen there) and, in the end, the DM has a lot of agency around what kind of game you will be playing.
during the first meeting i told him i was new and it was to be my first game, he said he was more then willing to help out a newbie get off the ground. and initially he was, gave me recommendations here and there when i was stumped or told me when a move on the map would be a bad one.
no i wasnt told it would form a pact. literally just told "pick between the two" i said "no i pick my self" to potentially save their lives from whatever fate it was. I did not know it was a trick, if i hd known i wouldnt have picked anything and truly picked death. when i confronted the DM about it he said "oh man, its almost like he left out blatant details while you were in a moment of duress" and "did you Really think it was just a handshake? lol".
at no point did the god say "work for me in exchange for this". he only said make a choice. he did try and seduce me with bargaining and i said "no, im not interested, you cant get to me the way you have the other two".
he also stated he wouldn't harm any of the party if we continued with his plan collectively. and before i gave him the handshake i did ask "is this to do with my soul" and he said "no, not yet".
he knew very well i was looking at multi-classing to bard eventually. i dont even use my default drow spells and cantrips as is.
With what limited information I have, I wouldn't want to play with that DM. First off, telling a player how to manage their character ("you're a warlock now") is a huge red flag, and most of the rest hints to me that he's the type that sees the entire game as his story and the players are lucky to be included in it completely subject to his whims. At the very least, "play like I say to or I'll hurt/kill your characters" is the opposite of encouraging player agency. This guy isn't railroading, he sees the party as a team of horses pulling his story wagon and he's whipping all of you to go in the direction he wants. What you do is your call, but it sounds like you've already expressed your concerns and his response was a big "tough $#&* deal with it." Unless I'm missing some hints this guy is full of himself and treats the entire game as an excuse to go on a personal power trip.
Personally, I would already be out of the game and looking for a new one. Maybe some of the other players enjoy the suspense of nearly dying every session and the other ways the DM tells his story but it's clear that you don't (neither would I). There are other games out there and if you keep looking and don't give up you'll eventually find one that fits you and is fun for you.
honestly i don't know about the rest of the players. from day one the characters themselves have stone walled my friend and my characters. limiting what information they told us, tried a bonding moment to get to know the characters and their backgrounds a little and that ended up just being the two other girls chatting each other up for 30 minutes. you literally had to force yourself to get a word in between the two.
the players themselves aren't talkative aside from the occasional memes they throw on the chat. though they clearly are afraid of the encounters too. something had come up before we joined thats kind of traumatised them (they wouldn't care to elaborate even when i asked)
my friend i joined with definitely thinks the Dm is a control freak border lining sadistic with the encounters and is coming to not enjoy the sessions too. especially when he got to his first "private information" dream of the campaign and the Dm pretty much disregarded his backstory and threw some horrible conversation with the goddess he hates with a vengeance that shouldn't have been there in the first place and made no sense for his situation.
we don't really wanna just drop the sessions and screw the story over for the other players and kind of think we are just gonna wait till we die and not come back.
LOL, if a DM ever informed me my next level was X class, when we leveled, he/she might be surprised to see it wasn't. My character levels as I decide, not the DM. If he/she insisted, I would let them know my character walked off into the sunset to pursue his career as the class I had chosen, wishing the party well. I would clean up my stuff, send my farewells and log off. The moment the DM starts making a demand on your character's progression is the moment he/she earns a new NPC to play and loses a PC, since that's obviously what they want anyway.
Best and most accurate quote thrown around here is "No D&D is better than bad D&D" Good luck, and I am sure you will eventually find a group you fit in, it might just take a bit more time.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
3 days later DM says "yo so next level you need to take a level in warlock"
That would be the exit point for me. It is absolutely uncool for a DM to simply tell a player what class they must become
If you'd discussed it beforehand, sure, it could have been a cool dramatic moment to explain a multi-class that you wanted to try out. That doesn't seem to be what happened though -- instead the DM is forcing you to play the character the way they want... which in the end makes you little better than an NPC anyway, so there's no reason for you to be there
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Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
No D&D is better than bad D&D, is the way the saying goes. This sounds like bad D&D -- you're not having fun, your friend's not having fun, the original players aren't having fun. Maybe try talking with them as well, and figure out how to approach the DM as a group? But even if you don't, if you haven't been playing with them too long, you're not really leaving them in the lurch, and maybe seeing you guys leave will demonstrate to them that it's possible.
I honestly was largely "ok" with this game till the forced warlock thing. My own DMing style would be "hey, I'd like to have this contact with the god further reflected in the character, the most radical thing would be you taking a level in Warlock, but I got a few other options off the top of my head that are much more lowkey, but basically want us to figure out a way to keep this divine contact in game through your character, also open to your ideas, here's the lore I'm willing to share, some of it meta outside your character's awareness but will likely help us brainstorm." One's a conversation to see what if any ways exist to carry what to the DM is a "cool moment" forward, but what you're dealing with is a DM fiat.
And even regarding forcing a MC level on a character, to be fair "old school" D&D did have things like DMs through game effects being able to increase decrease levels, stats, race, gender, etc right then and there in the course of the dungeon right there in the mechanics. It's not a very popular way to play these days.
Note, I'm not saying the DM is doing anything necessarily wrong. You're presenting a subjective impression of your game experience, and it is an "existing ongoing game" that you've entered. Regardless, 3.5 sessions is like what 7-14 hours? You should by now know whether you like this DM and this table. As you've noted it doesn't seem like the DM regards you as contributing to the game (you mention disregard for back story) beyond as "participants" in what you seem to feel are combat grindhouses for the most part with railroaded story in between the grinders. If there's "no joy" in the experience, you haven't found what you're looking for and it may be better for you to take the energy you put into the game and put it into finding a game more to your liking.
If you do leave, just be frank with a "sorry, this table just isn't working for me" and leave. There's no need to submit a resignation monologue accounting for everything that happened in the game you haven't enjoyed to date. You already tried to engage the DM and were rebuffed. If you're asked about it off line by other players, sure talk about it, _If_ you want to; but there's no obligatory exit interview for leaving a group.
Yeah no, skedaddle straight out of there my dude. DM seems to be an active ass rn.
You clearly aren't enjoying the game, your friend isn't. The players are shutting you out (which, your PCs are new to the situation, so it makes some sense. Do you feel any sense of player malice or is it just PC stuff?). The campaign isn't what you thought it would be. Looks like there's very little reason for you to stay, especially since the DM is trying to force you to take levels in X class.
It's too bad the DM is being a dick, cuz stuff like PCs making deals with powerful beings is awesome stuff! If you have any wish to stay (and I mean you actually desire to stay with this group and this game, "does it bring happiness to you?"), you could pitch the DM the idea to instead give you the magic initiate feat for free and you pick warlock option. Or they can give you something like shadow/fey touched depending on the origins of the god.
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Er ek geng, þat er à þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
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so i'm a relatively new player. only played 3 and a half sessions of my first ever and current campaign and still very much learning and remembering the basics of everything.
when i met my current DM who invited me and friend (who's been playing for quite a while) to play his campaign after we had a negative experience with a different DM. i thought it was going to be a whimsical pirate themed campaign, which i was so happy and looking forward to, it worked with my character (Half Drow Monk pirate). so far doesn't seem to be the case but i can deal.
got through the first pre session so me and my friends characters were caught up and ready to join up with the already established party. we both enjoyed that. though the encounter was a little more then i was expecting. friend and i shrugged it off as a "oh its your first session, you'll learn" situation. to be fair we were told to some degree that the encounters were meant to challenge you which we were skeptic about but went with it since we were told it 60/40 RP to Combat.
"challenge" seems to be an understatement. Every session, during every encounter the party seems to end up on death saving throws one way or another, at one stage we lost a player at what was apparently meant to be a "moderately easy" encounter and ended up going to another realm to bring her back (get to the rest of that later).
i have shared my concerns with the DM about this and have said it feels like sadistic punishment and that i'm starting to not enjoy it. that to me a session should end with the mentality of "aww its over already, wish we could play longer" and not a "holy ****, i survived another day." Dm pretty much told me to suck it up cause he wasn't going to change the encounters cause they were "too hard for some" and should just "learn and build from the encounter". Which, sure he has a point, but doesn't make me eager for the next sessions.
back to my previous point. while we were in the other realm rescuing the party member (which i really had no reason for being there as i had known the party less then two days, and yet im risking my life and soul for someone that would rather stonewall me) we met the supposed god of the realm. he gave my character a choice. pick the guy i secretly have feelings for or the woman i barley know. i assumed this was a choice of uncertain death and being the nice monk i am and not wanting their death on my hands i gave him my name instead. i was prepared to sacrifice myself to keep them safe. the god found this amusing and agreed telling me to live with my consequences. he then comes to me in dream form asking what i truly desire. i told him nothing. i make do what im given in this world and he leaves me be.
next day we wind up in a tomb and accidentally open the coffin to the god we encountered the other day. he's not happy and sends down an undead dragon which pretty much kicks our asses. (we are all level 5 about to be level 6 if that helps for context) all of them but me are down (which i felt was very plot orientated). god dude comes back and asks if i was still prepared to deal with the consequences of my choices and i said yes thinking "ok he's really going to kill me" but he just asks for a simple hand shake which i did indeed shake and he disappears and thats pretty much end of session. 3 days later DM says "yo so next level you need to take a level in warlock" which i was kind of shocked and slightly angry cause apparently gods can leave out critical information and trick you into contracts you have no interest in being in to begin with. and now im about to become an unwilling warlock which i had no plans for at all.
am i over my head overthinking all this, is my DM a sadistic wack job or is all this reasonable. personally getting to the point where i feel id rather just let my character die and not come back to the sessions at all.
I can see where the DM is coming from, if the rest of the players like hard challenging combat (and he knows that from previous discussions) but you don't it is reasonable to keep the rest of the group happy.
Regarding you taking a level of warlock. When given the choice to pick the guy you have feeling for or the woman you barely know were you told they they would become its apprentice / servent / representive? A warlock is someone who make a pact with an other-worldly being and while a certain amount of trickery might be involved you know you are making such an agreement. If you had discussed with the DM that oy wanted to take levels of warlock this would be a cool way to do it.
In D&D decisions do have consequences, if you refuse to help a village which has seen a large group of Orcs camp near by the next time you go there you might find the village destroyed and everyone dead. Often there is a no win scenario if you stop to help the villages and delay your pursuit of the cult who had kidnapped the king maybe you find he is dead and meanwhile the cultist have a carbon copy of hime on the throne. Having said that as a DM I would never force a player to multiclass against their will. If a character controlled by an experienced player is offered to make a pact with a powerful entity they should be aware of what they are doing and the DM might consider that player consent but as a new player you would have know idea of where things were heading, and mechanically it will almost certainly make you weaker (Monk / Warlock is generally a very poor multiclass choice).
As you have described it, it does sound as if the DM is making no allowance for your lack of experience and is unwilling to do so and if that is the case your best option seems to be to leave the group.
There are groups and groups, it's hard for a bunch of random people in the internet to give you a proper view if there is anything that you are overthinking or not.
With that said, ultimately, DnD is a game that is meant for you to have fun. You are investing free time that you could be doing anything else, so, talk to your DM about your discomforts and, if he is unwilling to compromise on the things that you feel are crossing a line, politely leave the group and look for something that is more to your tastes.
One of the hardest parts of the hobby, imo, is meeting people that want to play the same game as you, tbh. Every DM is different (If you hop on the DM forum, you will see the amount of arguments that happen there) and, in the end, the DM has a lot of agency around what kind of game you will be playing.
during the first meeting i told him i was new and it was to be my first game, he said he was more then willing to help out a newbie get off the ground. and initially he was, gave me recommendations here and there when i was stumped or told me when a move on the map would be a bad one.
no i wasnt told it would form a pact. literally just told "pick between the two" i said "no i pick my self" to potentially save their lives from whatever fate it was. I did not know it was a trick, if i hd known i wouldnt have picked anything and truly picked death. when i confronted the DM about it he said "oh man, its almost like he left out blatant details while you were in a moment of duress" and "did you Really think it was just a handshake? lol".
at no point did the god say "work for me in exchange for this". he only said make a choice. he did try and seduce me with bargaining and i said "no, im not interested, you cant get to me the way you have the other two".
he also stated he wouldn't harm any of the party if we continued with his plan collectively. and before i gave him the handshake i did ask "is this to do with my soul" and he said "no, not yet".
he knew very well i was looking at multi-classing to bard eventually. i dont even use my default drow spells and cantrips as is.
With what limited information I have, I wouldn't want to play with that DM. First off, telling a player how to manage their character ("you're a warlock now") is a huge red flag, and most of the rest hints to me that he's the type that sees the entire game as his story and the players are lucky to be included in it completely subject to his whims. At the very least, "play like I say to or I'll hurt/kill your characters" is the opposite of encouraging player agency. This guy isn't railroading, he sees the party as a team of horses pulling his story wagon and he's whipping all of you to go in the direction he wants. What you do is your call, but it sounds like you've already expressed your concerns and his response was a big "tough $#&* deal with it." Unless I'm missing some hints this guy is full of himself and treats the entire game as an excuse to go on a personal power trip.
Personally, I would already be out of the game and looking for a new one. Maybe some of the other players enjoy the suspense of nearly dying every session and the other ways the DM tells his story but it's clear that you don't (neither would I). There are other games out there and if you keep looking and don't give up you'll eventually find one that fits you and is fun for you.
A lot of the party having to death rolls every encounter sounds like the DM isn't quite setting the difficulty level correctly.
You obviously aren't having fun with this DM, so it is time to move on.
honestly i don't know about the rest of the players. from day one the characters themselves have stone walled my friend and my characters. limiting what information they told us, tried a bonding moment to get to know the characters and their backgrounds a little and that ended up just being the two other girls chatting each other up for 30 minutes. you literally had to force yourself to get a word in between the two.
the players themselves aren't talkative aside from the occasional memes they throw on the chat. though they clearly are afraid of the encounters too. something had come up before we joined thats kind of traumatised them (they wouldn't care to elaborate even when i asked)
my friend i joined with definitely thinks the Dm is a control freak border lining sadistic with the encounters and is coming to not enjoy the sessions too. especially when he got to his first "private information" dream of the campaign and the Dm pretty much disregarded his backstory and threw some horrible conversation with the goddess he hates with a vengeance that shouldn't have been there in the first place and made no sense for his situation.
we don't really wanna just drop the sessions and screw the story over for the other players and kind of think we are just gonna wait till we die and not come back.
Don't worry about the other players. They will cope without you - or also leave the game.
You have no need of loyalty to the complete strangers in this situation.
LOL, if a DM ever informed me my next level was X class, when we leveled, he/she might be surprised to see it wasn't. My character levels as I decide, not the DM. If he/she insisted, I would let them know my character walked off into the sunset to pursue his career as the class I had chosen, wishing the party well. I would clean up my stuff, send my farewells and log off. The moment the DM starts making a demand on your character's progression is the moment he/she earns a new NPC to play and loses a PC, since that's obviously what they want anyway.
Best and most accurate quote thrown around here is "No D&D is better than bad D&D" Good luck, and I am sure you will eventually find a group you fit in, it might just take a bit more time.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
That would be the exit point for me. It is absolutely uncool for a DM to simply tell a player what class they must become
If you'd discussed it beforehand, sure, it could have been a cool dramatic moment to explain a multi-class that you wanted to try out. That doesn't seem to be what happened though -- instead the DM is forcing you to play the character the way they want... which in the end makes you little better than an NPC anyway, so there's no reason for you to be there
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
No D&D is better than bad D&D, is the way the saying goes. This sounds like bad D&D -- you're not having fun, your friend's not having fun, the original players aren't having fun. Maybe try talking with them as well, and figure out how to approach the DM as a group? But even if you don't, if you haven't been playing with them too long, you're not really leaving them in the lurch, and maybe seeing you guys leave will demonstrate to them that it's possible.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
I honestly was largely "ok" with this game till the forced warlock thing. My own DMing style would be "hey, I'd like to have this contact with the god further reflected in the character, the most radical thing would be you taking a level in Warlock, but I got a few other options off the top of my head that are much more lowkey, but basically want us to figure out a way to keep this divine contact in game through your character, also open to your ideas, here's the lore I'm willing to share, some of it meta outside your character's awareness but will likely help us brainstorm." One's a conversation to see what if any ways exist to carry what to the DM is a "cool moment" forward, but what you're dealing with is a DM fiat.
And even regarding forcing a MC level on a character, to be fair "old school" D&D did have things like DMs through game effects being able to increase decrease levels, stats, race, gender, etc right then and there in the course of the dungeon right there in the mechanics. It's not a very popular way to play these days.
Note, I'm not saying the DM is doing anything necessarily wrong. You're presenting a subjective impression of your game experience, and it is an "existing ongoing game" that you've entered. Regardless, 3.5 sessions is like what 7-14 hours? You should by now know whether you like this DM and this table. As you've noted it doesn't seem like the DM regards you as contributing to the game (you mention disregard for back story) beyond as "participants" in what you seem to feel are combat grindhouses for the most part with railroaded story in between the grinders. If there's "no joy" in the experience, you haven't found what you're looking for and it may be better for you to take the energy you put into the game and put it into finding a game more to your liking.
If you do leave, just be frank with a "sorry, this table just isn't working for me" and leave. There's no need to submit a resignation monologue accounting for everything that happened in the game you haven't enjoyed to date. You already tried to engage the DM and were rebuffed. If you're asked about it off line by other players, sure talk about it, _If_ you want to; but there's no obligatory exit interview for leaving a group.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yeah no, skedaddle straight out of there my dude. DM seems to be an active ass rn.
You clearly aren't enjoying the game, your friend isn't. The players are shutting you out (which, your PCs are new to the situation, so it makes some sense. Do you feel any sense of player malice or is it just PC stuff?). The campaign isn't what you thought it would be. Looks like there's very little reason for you to stay, especially since the DM is trying to force you to take levels in X class.
It's too bad the DM is being a dick, cuz stuff like PCs making deals with powerful beings is awesome stuff! If you have any wish to stay (and I mean you actually desire to stay with this group and this game, "does it bring happiness to you?"), you could pitch the DM the idea to instead give you the magic initiate feat for free and you pick warlock option. Or they can give you something like shadow/fey touched depending on the origins of the god.
Er ek geng, þat er à þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
Buying the physical books does not entitle you to free digital versions.