[Redacted] It's up to you that you decide to use Roll20, which I state again is a totally separate company from WotC so why should Roll20 care you already paid? If you decide to use their services you have to pay the price they decide on. That's 100% a decision you made
And you can call the prices insane, that's perfectly within your rights, but I happen to disagree. It's more than I'd like to pay obviously but it's also a luxury product, no one needs to play D&D, and compared to people I know who drop more on a single night out I'm getting months of use out of my $70 for not just me but 4 or 5 other people. That's a pretty good deal by my reckoning
even at 120 dollars for a complete book, beyond, roll 20 set it’s good value for most. I mean it takes a solid year if not more of weekly 3-4 hour sessions to get through a typical WotC campaign… while 120 bucks is a dinner and a movie for 2 as long you don’t drink. It’s really not as crazy as your making it sound
Where are you eating dinner? 120 my electric bill, half my groceries, gas for a month. That's a lot of money. Wow you guys must live in manors or something. Some of us are living in poverty because of the current economy.
And to help show what im talking about. As a chef i maxed at ($40,000/yr) and anything less is $12/hr to be a line cook. Rents $1,600/mo. Groceries are $200+ a month. Gas is through the roof again. And they want me to spend $275 on that new bundle? They want me to spend $120 when i have to run paid games just to pay my bills? It's not smart, because people just pirate the shit. I've yet to meet one player who actually has read PBH. I've yet to meet one new player interested in buying it. They all go pirate it and i ask them not to tell me that's what they did or they just never read it and assume "well it's dm's job to teach me how to play" without any concept of how the game works yet.
it’s not the fault of WotC that you’ve chosen to follow the hobby in the absolutely most expensive way possible. I’ve already pointed out that I manage to run games using half the outlay you are. If you want to get even cheaper you don’t even need a physical copy if you’re only playing online so that brings the potential price down to $30. You can go even cheaper than that, my first ever campaign we used only the free basic rules, a campaign we got on DMs Guild and used theatre of the mind over Discord. Six months fun for five people cost a grand total of $1
First off, you can play D&D for free. They give away the basic rules. Yes, theres only 1 choice of a subclass, but it’s certainly enough to play. You can use the character builder here for free, no subscription. You can skip the builder, the other subscriptions and the VTT and just write down your character info on a blank sheet of paper and play TotM; people did it that way for decades. If you’re not in person, hop on discord and there you go. No one has spent a penny. If that’s your idea of greedy, I’m not sure what to tell you. If you buy a book 3 times, that’s a choice you are making to accommodate the way you like to play, but it’s not the only way to play. It’s the option you are choosing.
But let’s say you choose to buy a book. And it costs $60. Heck lets add in taxes and other potential fees and say to costs &70. How many hours of entertainment are you going to get for that $70? Compare it to how much entertainment you get per hour for a movie ticket, or a concert ticket. Realize that the book will keep working forever. You can use it to keep playing 40 years from now as there are, indeed, still people playing 1e with books they bought in the 80’s.
Finally, WotC is not running a charity. The people who made the book need to be paid a salary. As do the others who work there from the cleaning staff on up, there’s rent, there’s taxes, etc. And yes, there’s profit, and, as a publicly traded company, they have a legal obligation to produce value for their shareholders.
If the price is a lot for you, I get it. It’s not cheap for many people, and depending on where you live, wages may not be as high. That sucks, and I get it. But saying they’re greedy because they want to pay their people a living wage, and keep the lights on in their offices just seems to ignore reality.
D&D can be played for free. UA literally has most of the mechanics of the published content. If price is an issue, a person should not even be paying for D&D in the first place, and there are FREE AND LEGAL ways of accessing ALL PUBLISHED D&D CONTENT. As a player, there is not much reason to spend money on the hobby since most GMs will provide for everything you need. And if you are a GM without the financial means, you can still provide everything to your players too. How? Join various D&D communities, whether offline or online. Talk to people at game stores and conventions, join and socialize in D&D groups on Reddit or whatever your choice of social media, and ASK people who have access to things to share content with you. It really is not that difficult to get everything on Beyond by only paying for subscription and having a person with the Legendary Bundle to drop a character into the campaign. And if you have the time to run a D&D game, you have the time to work an extra side job to pay for the subscription.
D&D is not a necessity. Wizards already provides the base game and prepublished content for free. Digital tools are free, and if people want more content without paying, they will need to spend time to input content manually into the game. Complaining about D&D being expensive is like complaining about transportation being unaffordable because they cannot afford a Ferrari; bikes exist, public transportation exist, car pooling exist, and used car exist. Not only is D&D not a necessity, D&D can already be played for free, Wizards is under no moral obligation to make the game cheaper than it already is, and Wizards has a duty to make as much money for their shareholders as possible. If we are talking about necessities like food, healthcare, and shelter being expensive, price is a valid complaint; but we are talking about a game that is not necessary for survival, and it is luxury product that could be played for free to begin with by just asking around.
People who print the books should be paid. People who develop Beyond should be paid. People who develop Roll20 should be paid. People are not entitled to their work for free. This is no different from your boss asking you to work the weekends for free at their spouse's bakery, and calling you greedy for refusing to work an extra two days since he already paid you to work the five weekdays.
And to reiterate one last time: D&D IS FREE, AND EVERYONE CAN ACCESS ALL PAID D&D CONTENT FOR FREE LEGALLY BY ASKING YOUR D&D COMMUNITY. People get access to paid stuff on Beyond for free all the time. It will take some time and effort to find someone to drop a character into your campaign, but that is the price you pay if you do not want to pay in money. The D&D community is pretty welcoming and generous, and it is not that difficult to find a nice GM, so it should be a cakewalk regardless. If you still cannot get someone to share content with you, then you really need to work on your rizz and attitude, as that sense of entitlement you have is bad vibes and pushes others away.
There is no question that there are more digital online games of D&D and other RPG's being played today than there are live table games
Is there data that shows this to be the case? Most in the hobby that I know personally either only played online during the pandemic or have continued to do so because some of the players that had gathered at their tables weren't local. Some will play in person and just have those who can't do so join remotely before they migrate their games online permanently. Because there's no comparison. Now obviously many do play here on Beyond. But you seriously can't tell me those who do make up the majority of people who play D&D. And certainly not when you account for every other edition and every other iteration of D&D. Other games? Call of Cthulhu is no small player in the hobby. I seriously doubt those playing the game on Roll20 outnumber those who play in person. Given physical player aids are such a large part of the game.
Hmmm. You have a very good point. Where is the data to show that in-person is dying off and online is growing? I know a large number of people who never have used a VTT and some even get confused when i try to explain what they are. "You can do that online?" Yeah, it's a lot of fun too. Startplaying alone only has 30,000 players. Out of that 30,000 players there is also less than 6,000 GMs. I know these numbers only because i listen in to their podcast thing a lot. Do we really have a way to say how many people still play in-person? I don't think there is even a real way to collect that data. Infamous your onto something.
- Walmart even sells the starter kits now. - Game Stores have become popular with everyone going back into public spaces - Accessibility to start an in-person game has become much easier with online resources to find groups - Someone above even stated that you don't even need the official books and stuff. You can grab the free source book and start up a game even.
Given all of those variables, how would anyone put that into data we can look at. None the less data we can use to compare because another factor is that people started to buy tvs and doing the VTT in the table setups. So would that be online or in-person? We have to now cut those numbers off "online users". I would love to actually know the numbers because im a numbers person and geniunely am curious now what's more used in our current market.
I live in a country where English is a Second Language and even here many are the "meet-up" groups that play D&D and other table-top role-playing games and the flagship store in my city for one of the domestic hobby shop chains provides a whole room of tables for strictly TTRPGs. It has a whole other floor for CCGs. I currently play in three D&D campaigns consisting of different groups of players and these are all played in person. I have never had any trouble finding people to play with locally wherever I have lived. I think those who mostly or exclusively play online are misled to believe most do provided the dramatic increase we saw in people playing online during the pandemic. I know people who never expressed even the remotest interest in playing D&D who took up D&D during the pandemic. Some of them still play. But some were just "tourists." We really have no idea how many of us play in person. But I wager it is more than many who practically live online might imagine. Some people can't play in person. So I understand some people's preference for playing online. But there is really no comparison. Particularly when one plays with those who are friends outside of D&D. Enjoying the company of these friends while playing D&D is nowhere near "the same" as playing D&D with them online. Saying they are "the same" is a bit like saying FaceTiming with parents you've not seen in a decade is "the same" as seeing them in person for the first time in a decade.
[Redacted]
It's up to you that you decide to use Roll20, which I state again is a totally separate company from WotC so why should Roll20 care you already paid? If you decide to use their services you have to pay the price they decide on. That's 100% a decision you made
And you can call the prices insane, that's perfectly within your rights, but I happen to disagree. It's more than I'd like to pay obviously but it's also a luxury product, no one needs to play D&D, and compared to people I know who drop more on a single night out I'm getting months of use out of my $70 for not just me but 4 or 5 other people. That's a pretty good deal by my reckoning
even at 120 dollars for a complete book, beyond, roll 20 set it’s good value for most. I mean it takes a solid year if not more of weekly 3-4 hour sessions to get through a typical WotC campaign… while 120 bucks is a dinner and a movie for 2 as long you don’t drink. It’s really not as crazy as your making it sound
Where are you eating dinner?
120 my electric bill, half my groceries, gas for a month. That's a lot of money.
Wow you guys must live in manors or something. Some of us are living in poverty because of the current economy.
And to help show what im talking about. As a chef i maxed at ($40,000/yr) and anything less is $12/hr to be a line cook.
Rents $1,600/mo. Groceries are $200+ a month. Gas is through the roof again. And they want me to spend $275 on that new bundle?
They want me to spend $120 when i have to run paid games just to pay my bills? It's not smart, because people just pirate the shit. I've yet to meet one player who actually has read PBH. I've yet to meet one new player interested in buying it. They all go pirate it and i ask them not to tell me that's what they did or they just never read it and assume "well it's dm's job to teach me how to play" without any concept of how the game works yet.
Yeah this is good business.
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
it’s not the fault of WotC that you’ve chosen to follow the hobby in the absolutely most expensive way possible. I’ve already pointed out that I manage to run games using half the outlay you are. If you want to get even cheaper you don’t even need a physical copy if you’re only playing online so that brings the potential price down to $30. You can go even cheaper than that, my first ever campaign we used only the free basic rules, a campaign we got on DMs Guild and used theatre of the mind over Discord. Six months fun for five people cost a grand total of $1
First off, you can play D&D for free. They give away the basic rules. Yes, theres only 1 choice of a subclass, but it’s certainly enough to play. You can use the character builder here for free, no subscription. You can skip the builder, the other subscriptions and the VTT and just write down your character info on a blank sheet of paper and play TotM; people did it that way for decades. If you’re not in person, hop on discord and there you go. No one has spent a penny. If that’s your idea of greedy, I’m not sure what to tell you. If you buy a book 3 times, that’s a choice you are making to accommodate the way you like to play, but it’s not the only way to play. It’s the option you are choosing.
But let’s say you choose to buy a book. And it costs $60. Heck lets add in taxes and other potential fees and say to costs &70. How many hours of entertainment are you going to get for that $70? Compare it to how much entertainment you get per hour for a movie ticket, or a concert ticket. Realize that the book will keep working forever. You can use it to keep playing 40 years from now as there are, indeed, still people playing 1e with books they bought in the 80’s.
Finally, WotC is not running a charity. The people who made the book need to be paid a salary. As do the others who work there from the cleaning staff on up, there’s rent, there’s taxes, etc. And yes, there’s profit, and, as a publicly traded company, they have a legal obligation to produce value for their shareholders.
If the price is a lot for you, I get it. It’s not cheap for many people, and depending on where you live, wages may not be as high. That sucks, and I get it. But saying they’re greedy because they want to pay their people a living wage, and keep the lights on in their offices just seems to ignore reality.
D&D can be played for free. UA literally has most of the mechanics of the published content. If price is an issue, a person should not even be paying for D&D in the first place, and there are FREE AND LEGAL ways of accessing ALL PUBLISHED D&D CONTENT. As a player, there is not much reason to spend money on the hobby since most GMs will provide for everything you need. And if you are a GM without the financial means, you can still provide everything to your players too. How? Join various D&D communities, whether offline or online. Talk to people at game stores and conventions, join and socialize in D&D groups on Reddit or whatever your choice of social media, and ASK people who have access to things to share content with you. It really is not that difficult to get everything on Beyond by only paying for subscription and having a person with the Legendary Bundle to drop a character into the campaign. And if you have the time to run a D&D game, you have the time to work an extra side job to pay for the subscription.
D&D is not a necessity. Wizards already provides the base game and prepublished content for free. Digital tools are free, and if people want more content without paying, they will need to spend time to input content manually into the game. Complaining about D&D being expensive is like complaining about transportation being unaffordable because they cannot afford a Ferrari; bikes exist, public transportation exist, car pooling exist, and used car exist. Not only is D&D not a necessity, D&D can already be played for free, Wizards is under no moral obligation to make the game cheaper than it already is, and Wizards has a duty to make as much money for their shareholders as possible. If we are talking about necessities like food, healthcare, and shelter being expensive, price is a valid complaint; but we are talking about a game that is not necessary for survival, and it is luxury product that could be played for free to begin with by just asking around.
People who print the books should be paid. People who develop Beyond should be paid. People who develop Roll20 should be paid. People are not entitled to their work for free. This is no different from your boss asking you to work the weekends for free at their spouse's bakery, and calling you greedy for refusing to work an extra two days since he already paid you to work the five weekdays.
And to reiterate one last time: D&D IS FREE, AND EVERYONE CAN ACCESS ALL PAID D&D CONTENT FOR FREE LEGALLY BY ASKING YOUR D&D COMMUNITY. People get access to paid stuff on Beyond for free all the time. It will take some time and effort to find someone to drop a character into your campaign, but that is the price you pay if you do not want to pay in money. The D&D community is pretty welcoming and generous, and it is not that difficult to find a nice GM, so it should be a cakewalk regardless. If you still cannot get someone to share content with you, then you really need to work on your rizz and attitude, as that sense of entitlement you have is bad vibes and pushes others away.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Is there data that shows this to be the case? Most in the hobby that I know personally either only played online during the pandemic or have continued to do so because some of the players that had gathered at their tables weren't local. Some will play in person and just have those who can't do so join remotely before they migrate their games online permanently. Because there's no comparison. Now obviously many do play here on Beyond. But you seriously can't tell me those who do make up the majority of people who play D&D. And certainly not when you account for every other edition and every other iteration of D&D. Other games? Call of Cthulhu is no small player in the hobby. I seriously doubt those playing the game on Roll20 outnumber those who play in person. Given physical player aids are such a large part of the game.
Hmmm. You have a very good point. Where is the data to show that in-person is dying off and online is growing? I know a large number of people who never have used a VTT and some even get confused when i try to explain what they are. "You can do that online?" Yeah, it's a lot of fun too. Startplaying alone only has 30,000 players. Out of that 30,000 players there is also less than 6,000 GMs. I know these numbers only because i listen in to their podcast thing a lot. Do we really have a way to say how many people still play in-person? I don't think there is even a real way to collect that data. Infamous your onto something.
- Walmart even sells the starter kits now.
- Game Stores have become popular with everyone going back into public spaces
- Accessibility to start an in-person game has become much easier with online resources to find groups
- Someone above even stated that you don't even need the official books and stuff. You can grab the free source book and start up a game even.
Given all of those variables, how would anyone put that into data we can look at. None the less data we can use to compare because another factor is that people started to buy tvs and doing the VTT in the table setups. So would that be online or in-person? We have to now cut those numbers off "online users". I would love to actually know the numbers because im a numbers person and geniunely am curious now what's more used in our current market.
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
I live in a country where English is a Second Language and even here many are the "meet-up" groups that play D&D and other table-top role-playing games and the flagship store in my city for one of the domestic hobby shop chains provides a whole room of tables for strictly TTRPGs. It has a whole other floor for CCGs. I currently play in three D&D campaigns consisting of different groups of players and these are all played in person. I have never had any trouble finding people to play with locally wherever I have lived. I think those who mostly or exclusively play online are misled to believe most do provided the dramatic increase we saw in people playing online during the pandemic. I know people who never expressed even the remotest interest in playing D&D who took up D&D during the pandemic. Some of them still play. But some were just "tourists." We really have no idea how many of us play in person. But I wager it is more than many who practically live online might imagine. Some people can't play in person. So I understand some people's preference for playing online. But there is really no comparison. Particularly when one plays with those who are friends outside of D&D. Enjoying the company of these friends while playing D&D is nowhere near "the same" as playing D&D with them online. Saying they are "the same" is a bit like saying FaceTiming with parents you've not seen in a decade is "the same" as seeing them in person for the first time in a decade.