It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Weird is one of those spells more meant to be used against the party, rather than by the party, since it creates an interesting situation. See also Crown of Madness.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
Sorry, it is just taking me a bit to wrap my brain around your pov.
If I understand you correctly, you are not talking about net value, you are talking about gross value.
To take an example, Magic Missile
"You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several."
You seem to see that as an objective positive for the spell. If the spell was 9th level and did only that, you'd still see it as a positive for the spell.
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
Sorry, it is just taking me a bit to wrap my brain around your pov.
If I understand you correctly, you are not talking about net value, you are talking about gross value.
To take an example, Magic Missile
"You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several."
You seem to see that as an objective positive for the spell. If the spell was 9th level and did only that, you'd still see it as a positive for the spell.
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
Sorry, it is just taking me a bit to wrap my brain around your pov.
If I understand you correctly, you are not talking about net value, you are talking about gross value.
To take an example, Magic Missile
"You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several."
You seem to see that as an objective positive for the spell. If the spell was 9th level and did only that, you'd still see it as a positive for the spell.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
You said that, for example, the fact that Weird causes 4d10 psychic damage to everyone in a 30ft radius is a positive of the spell and you say that this is a positive of the spell regardless of the level of the spell (you insisted that your statement that it is a positive says nothing about whether you think it is worth a ninth level slot).
It is as if saying that creating 3 1d4+1 darts is a positive of the magic missile regardless of magic missile's level.
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
Sorry, it is just taking me a bit to wrap my brain around your pov.
If I understand you correctly, you are not talking about net value, you are talking about gross value.
To take an example, Magic Missile
"You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several."
You seem to see that as an objective positive for the spell. If the spell was 9th level and did only that, you'd still see it as a positive for the spell.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
You said that, for example, the fact that Weird causes 4d10 psychic damage to everyone in a 30ft radius is a positive of the spell and you say that this is a positive of the spell regardless of the level of the spell (you insisted that your statement that it is a positive says nothing about whether you think it is worth a ninth level slot).
It is as if saying that creating 3 1d4+1 darts is a positive of the magic missile regardless of magic missile's level.
To be fair, the spell does 4d10 damage to every creature in a 30' radius every round for 10 rounds and causes the Frightened condition. That in no way can be compared to Magic Missile
It is a legacy spell. Been around since 1e, iirc. It’s always been 9th level, and they don’t like moving around those classic spells. So we get fireball that probably too strong for its level, and some like this that are too weak for their level.
Weird is the higher level version of the (also bad) Phantasmal Killer. It's a case of "the devs can't do math". Given that it requires two failed saves over two turns to cause any damage, and can be interrupted early by losing concentration, I wouldn't have serious balance complaints about it if it just reduced to 0 hp, like a banshee, and if it merely did something like 20d10 (110) it would be fine.
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
Sorry, it is just taking me a bit to wrap my brain around your pov.
If I understand you correctly, you are not talking about net value, you are talking about gross value.
To take an example, Magic Missile
"You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several."
You seem to see that as an objective positive for the spell. If the spell was 9th level and did only that, you'd still see it as a positive for the spell.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
You said that, for example, the fact that Weird causes 4d10 psychic damage to everyone in a 30ft radius is a positive of the spell and you say that this is a positive of the spell regardless of the level of the spell (you insisted that your statement that it is a positive says nothing about whether you think it is worth a ninth level slot).
It is as if saying that creating 3 1d4+1 darts is a positive of the magic missile regardless of magic missile's level.
To be fair, the spell does 4d10 damage to every creature in a 30' radius every round for 10 rounds and causes the Frightened condition. That in no way can be compared to Magic Missile
It'd be awesome if only it was true.
In reality, targets are very likely to pass a save _long_ before 10 rounds has passed.
It is a legacy spell. Been around since 1e, iirc. It’s always been 9th level, and they don’t like moving around those classic spells. So we get fireball that probably too strong for its level, and some like this that are too weak for their level.
But it doesn't need to be what it is.
An alternative might be that it still lasts for ten rounds, but instead of a save causing the spell to terminate, a save is made each round and on each round you save, you merely avoid taking damage for that round.
That's a max of 40d10 damage. It will tend towards half that many dice. It is also damage over time (and, so, can be cancelled with Dispel Magic).
By comparison, Meteor Swarm is 40d6, it is instant, has a larger radius, and a significantly larger range.
It is a legacy spell. Been around since 1e, iirc. It’s always been 9th level, and they don’t like moving around those classic spells. So we get fireball that probably too strong for its level, and some like this that are too weak for their level.
But it doesn't need to be what it is.
An alternative might be that it still lasts for ten rounds, but instead of a save causing the spell to terminate, a save is made each round and on each round you save, you merely avoid taking damage for that round.
That's a max of 40d10 damage. It will tend towards half that many dice. It is also damage over time (and, so, can be cancelled with Dispel Magic).
By comparison, Meteor Swarm is 40d6, it is instant, has a larger radius, and a significantly larger range.
I’m not trying to argue it’s merits, I’m just saying it’s always been around. The developers saw it, they’ve all played since 1e, and said, yeah, weird, it’s a 9th level spell, like it’s always been. As pantagruel notes, it used to be save or die. They don’t have that anymore, and 40d10, is a lot of damage. Maybe they rated it by max damage and not average damage? 🤷
In the scheme of things, it seems like there’s much bigger fish to fry from a quality control standpoint. Especially when pretty much everyone is just going to take wish as their level 9 spell and call it good.
It is a legacy spell. Been around since 1e, iirc. It’s always been 9th level, and they don’t like moving around those classic spells. So we get fireball that probably too strong for its level, and some like this that are too weak for their level.
I bet my money on that this is the answer you are looking for
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It is far weaker than Illusory Dragon.
I can't find a positive review of it anywhere.
I could find it far more tolerable if it wasn't the only 9th level illusion spell
I seriously would like to know, mostly for my own enlightenment, what went wrong with the review process of this spell?
New to 5E, are you? Weird is far from the worst spell in the book (and all spells are always reviewed for their level).
It's not a fantastic spell for 9th level, but it's an Illusion capable of affecting every creature in a 60-foot area, and it deals meager damage to them all every turn. It's unique in that way, as far as Illusions go. Illusory Dragon came later, in Xanathar's.
What is unique about Weird is that it is the only spell of it's school at it's level AND sucks.
Weird is one of those spells more meant to be used against the party, rather than by the party, since it creates an interesting situation. See also Crown of Madness.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Are you saying that you believe that Weird is appropriate for it's level?
No, I'm saying just what I wrote there. You're having trouble finding positives for the spell, and I gave you some.
Sorry, it is just taking me a bit to wrap my brain around your pov.
If I understand you correctly, you are not talking about net value, you are talking about gross value.
To take an example, Magic Missile
"You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several."
You seem to see that as an objective positive for the spell. If the spell was 9th level and did only that, you'd still see it as a positive for the spell.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
You said that, for example, the fact that Weird causes 4d10 psychic damage to everyone in a 30ft radius is a positive of the spell and you say that this is a positive of the spell regardless of the level of the spell (you insisted that your statement that it is a positive says nothing about whether you think it is worth a ninth level slot).
It is as if saying that creating 3 1d4+1 darts is a positive of the magic missile regardless of magic missile's level.
To be fair, the spell does 4d10 damage to every creature in a 30' radius every round for 10 rounds and causes the Frightened condition. That in no way can be compared to Magic Missile
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
If you don't like it, don't use it.
Simple as that.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
It is a legacy spell. Been around since 1e, iirc. It’s always been 9th level, and they don’t like moving around those classic spells. So we get fireball that probably too strong for its level, and some like this that are too weak for their level.
Weird is the higher level version of the (also bad) Phantasmal Killer. It's a case of "the devs can't do math". Given that it requires two failed saves over two turns to cause any damage, and can be interrupted early by losing concentration, I wouldn't have serious balance complaints about it if it just reduced to 0 hp, like a banshee, and if it merely did something like 20d10 (110) it would be fine.
It'd be awesome if only it was true.
In reality, targets are very likely to pass a save _long_ before 10 rounds has passed.
But it doesn't need to be what it is.
An alternative might be that it still lasts for ten rounds, but instead of a save causing the spell to terminate, a save is made each round and on each round you save, you merely avoid taking damage for that round.
That's a max of 40d10 damage. It will tend towards half that many dice. It is also damage over time (and, so, can be cancelled with Dispel Magic).
By comparison, Meteor Swarm is 40d6, it is instant, has a larger radius, and a significantly larger range.
But, this thread isn't about how bad Weird sucks. We all know it sucks. I'm asking how these kinds of reviews fail to function.
I would note that the legacy spell just caused instant death, so there's still no excuse for 4d10 damage.
I’m not trying to argue it’s merits, I’m just saying it’s always been around. The developers saw it, they’ve all played since 1e, and said, yeah, weird, it’s a 9th level spell, like it’s always been.
As pantagruel notes, it used to be save or die. They don’t have that anymore, and 40d10, is a lot of damage. Maybe they rated it by max damage and not average damage? 🤷
In the scheme of things, it seems like there’s much bigger fish to fry from a quality control standpoint. Especially when pretty much everyone is just going to take wish as their level 9 spell and call it good.
I bet my money on that this is the answer you are looking for