How much of the feel of a dragon encounter is based on the size of the more mature dragons? Could a similar feel be there if the creatures capped out as large? What kind of mechanical issues would such a change have?
Size has a couple of important details... for one, it increases the range of a creature in terms of attacking. Not necessarily that all huge or larger creatures immediately have a reach beyond 5 feet (although most do), but also because they cover a wider surface area and thus can reach more spaces on the board. This is especially important to creatures like Dragons which have a melee attack they can perform as Legendary Actions... the bigger they are, the more creatures they can have within melee range at one time.
The other important factor that size influences are spells and abilities that move a creature around the board. A Large or Smaller creature can be Shoved or Grappled by a Medium-sized creature, but larger creatures can't be. There are also several spells and abilities that feature language that they do not work on creatures above a certain size, and less commonly, above a certain weight (that's less often a factor, however, since creature stat blocks don't, by default, include weight).
So the size of Dragons is a factor in how they function in combat beyond just the spectacle... that said, a creature with the same stat block as an Adult Dragon with the only change being that they are sized Large is still a powerful threat and only marginally less powerful than a larger creature.
Most of the dragons in "How to Train Your Dragon" are basically large sized creatures, and they manage to make dragon encounters dynamic and interesting. I don't see why a creature between the size of a horse and an elephant would be any less menacing or majestic.
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Most of the dragons in "How to Train Your Dragon" are basically large sized creatures, and they manage to make dragon encounters dynamic and interesting. I don't see why a creature between the size of a horse and an elephant would be any less menacing or majestic.
Yeah, but that movie was heavily house ruled. Pretty much to the point that it didn't follow the D&D ruleset at all.
How to train your Dragon is wonderfully cute, but its not DnD! This is a case where size does matter - which would you rather fight - a T. Rex or a velocoraptor? keeping dragons smaller limits their danger and their iconic status and appeal as well as how they fight and what it takes to take one down. we even saw that in the original "tame your dragon - all the dragons we see turn out to be adolescents or less compared to the giant one in the nest that the others are all trying to feed to keep it from feeding on them. that's why the iconic end battle is the hero and his (baby) dragon against the true bohemoth. Also why that battle is so much more spectacular than the village battle or any of the other battles.
The rules for size are a bit vague, Size is control space, an Ogre and a Goliath are approx the same height, but one is large and one is medium. When considering this, most male characters are over 5' tall, but the space category for a medium creature is a 5' cube... so they are standing outside that cube, and that doesn't even include reaching or weapons.
From this, we can gather that size categories are arbitrary, if you look at the body of a riding horse and the body of a young dragon, the young dragon is about the same size, minus the wings. The wingspan is almost triple the horses length, and if they stretch their head to tail, they are about double the horses length. Sometimes sizes don't even make sense, Gargantuan is a 20' cube, but right in the description for Tarrasque it says it's 50' tall and 70' long... it's clearly Colossal, and even than, it doesn't fit within the 25' parameter that Colossal would be. The fundamental part is that it interacts with the mechanical benefits of it's category, and spells that say they affect the area it's designated to should work on it.
Most people in D&D are under CR3, even if they are warriors. Champions might be CR5, but a Young Dragon is at least CR6, with unique advantages like rechargeable breath weapon, dramatically superior mobility, and unique benefits like blindsight and an elemental immunity. They are plenty intimidating if you don't chuck them at a party that is already capable of defeating it. Large is manageable, it can technically be grappled by a medium, and most party's of level 5 can probably handle a young dragon after the spike in power at level 5, There's also legendary saves and actions at the next category, not just the size. If you want a better example of a medium or large creature that can be devastating, look at large demons or devils. And as always, you can remake things to be more potent, size isn't everything, most mages are terrifying late game unless surprised, sometimes even then.
How much of the feel of a dragon encounter is based on the size of the more mature dragons? Could a similar feel be there if the creatures capped out as large? What kind of mechanical issues would such a change have?
Share your thoughts on the concept. Thank you.
Size has a couple of important details... for one, it increases the range of a creature in terms of attacking. Not necessarily that all huge or larger creatures immediately have a reach beyond 5 feet (although most do), but also because they cover a wider surface area and thus can reach more spaces on the board. This is especially important to creatures like Dragons which have a melee attack they can perform as Legendary Actions... the bigger they are, the more creatures they can have within melee range at one time.
The other important factor that size influences are spells and abilities that move a creature around the board. A Large or Smaller creature can be Shoved or Grappled by a Medium-sized creature, but larger creatures can't be. There are also several spells and abilities that feature language that they do not work on creatures above a certain size, and less commonly, above a certain weight (that's less often a factor, however, since creature stat blocks don't, by default, include weight).
So the size of Dragons is a factor in how they function in combat beyond just the spectacle... that said, a creature with the same stat block as an Adult Dragon with the only change being that they are sized Large is still a powerful threat and only marginally less powerful than a larger creature.
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Most of the dragons in "How to Train Your Dragon" are basically large sized creatures, and they manage to make dragon encounters dynamic and interesting. I don't see why a creature between the size of a horse and an elephant would be any less menacing or majestic.
Yeah, but that movie was heavily house ruled. Pretty much to the point that it didn't follow the D&D ruleset at all.
How to train your Dragon is wonderfully cute, but its not DnD! This is a case where size does matter - which would you rather fight - a T. Rex or a velocoraptor? keeping dragons smaller limits their danger and their iconic status and appeal as well as how they fight and what it takes to take one down. we even saw that in the original "tame your dragon - all the dragons we see turn out to be adolescents or less compared to the giant one in the nest that the others are all trying to feed to keep it from feeding on them. that's why the iconic end battle is the hero and his (baby) dragon against the true bohemoth. Also why that battle is so much more spectacular than the village battle or any of the other battles.
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The rules for size are a bit vague, Size is control space, an Ogre and a Goliath are approx the same height, but one is large and one is medium. When considering this, most male characters are over 5' tall, but the space category for a medium creature is a 5' cube... so they are standing outside that cube, and that doesn't even include reaching or weapons.
From this, we can gather that size categories are arbitrary, if you look at the body of a riding horse and the body of a young dragon, the young dragon is about the same size, minus the wings. The wingspan is almost triple the horses length, and if they stretch their head to tail, they are about double the horses length. Sometimes sizes don't even make sense, Gargantuan is a 20' cube, but right in the description for Tarrasque it says it's 50' tall and 70' long... it's clearly Colossal, and even than, it doesn't fit within the 25' parameter that Colossal would be. The fundamental part is that it interacts with the mechanical benefits of it's category, and spells that say they affect the area it's designated to should work on it.
Most people in D&D are under CR3, even if they are warriors. Champions might be CR5, but a Young Dragon is at least CR6, with unique advantages like rechargeable breath weapon, dramatically superior mobility, and unique benefits like blindsight and an elemental immunity. They are plenty intimidating if you don't chuck them at a party that is already capable of defeating it. Large is manageable, it can technically be grappled by a medium, and most party's of level 5 can probably handle a young dragon after the spike in power at level 5, There's also legendary saves and actions at the next category, not just the size. If you want a better example of a medium or large creature that can be devastating, look at large demons or devils. And as always, you can remake things to be more potent, size isn't everything, most mages are terrifying late game unless surprised, sometimes even then.