I'd like to see feats divided into combat and non-combat, with more non-combat feats given at creation and leveling. A fallen Aasimar with telepathic is fun to RP. Necrotic Shroud and whispering doom is great for interrogations. Its quite an easy DM call to allow an extra non-combat feat, an extra language or two, or a (mostly) non-combat proficiency such as insight or deception at creation at least.
Feats give options. Either the player can chose something that complements his character or use them to flavor their character more according to the characters background.
Some feats are key to specific character power, you cannot gain with a simple +2 to a stat.
Agreed, their are many more feats than there are different ability scores, and as others have said, they do not generally tie into class options, meaning that you can't gain the effect of many feats in other ways. Some feats may work better in some campaigns, and some less good in others. But the beauty of feats is that they provide are so many different options, and they can work so well with many different campaigns and characters, and help fix character holes where an ability score wouldn't.
For example, I once played a wizard who kept getting hit and nearly dying, he needed more HP. With other characters I had been buffing my con score for more HP, but doing that only gave me a max of 1 extra hit point per a level. When I took the tough feat, I got double that.
No, because feats are specifically designed to not purely tie into class themes.
But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
No, because feats are specifically designed to not purely tie into class themes.
But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
Opinion on immersion and class roles vary from player to player and table to table. I find it extremely un-immersive if everyone is the same, with the only difference being ASI distribution, and even then, it probably is not going to be very different either. Strict adherence to traditional class roles (or any kind of tradition) is also very boring and not fun.
If you are the GM, feel free to restrict feats however you want, just make sure to talk it over with your players first.
No, because feats are specifically designed to not purely tie into class themes.
But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
So, you're suggesting that feats work like spell lists do, with certain feats only available to certain classes? I don't really see how that'll achieve anything new. Most feats are already sorted by class type, after a manner - my wizard never even considered GWM, for instance. Having class feat lists will just restrict creativity.
If you mean just have them as part of classes abilities, then we already do, in a sense. Any classes and subclasses automatically get abilities that others don't.
For what it's worth, I feel that two things would improve my experience with feats:
Divorce them from the idea of bring ASI substitutes. At the moment, having them as an either/or with ASIs make them too costly. You get 5 in a full length campaign (at L4,8,12,16,19), it only 2-3 in a normal one (which generally end between L8 and L13). Most characters are dependent on at least two ASs, and if they have 16s in both for their rolls, then with racial modifiers, they'd need at least 3 to max them out. That means the vast majority of campaigns require you to decide between maxing out an important stat and having a feat. I don't mind the idea of being able to trade an ASI for a feat for those who don't feel the need for an ASI, but it would be an improvement if there were alternative ways of obtaining feats. Let me have feats without hobbling my character.
Ore interesting feats, at least for non martials. I've considered getting a feat before and every time, I looked through them (at least, the PHB ones) and found that they were just not interesting and felt that I was better off just improving my AC and Initiative through my Dex instead.
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No, because feats are specifically designed to not purely tie into class themes.
But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
In my opinion, no, feats don't disrupt "the theme" they complement it.
As example let's take a chara I'm not playing right now, but want to play in the future.
He's a Chaotic Good Drow Light Domain Cleric of Eilistraee with the Criminal background. Backstory: He run with the wrong crowd (followers of Vhaeraun), nearly got in too deep (scarred his own face and nearly cut off his tongue) before a priestess of Eilistraee found him and nursed him back to health. He saw her kindness and asked if he could learn from her and that's how he became a Cleric.
I do not want to multiclass into Rogue (just not a fan of multiclassing), yet I would like to have him some skills that fit together with his Criminal background, so I plan on taking the Observant feat, which will give him:
Increase your Intelligence or Wisdom score by 1, to a maximum of 20. <-- useful for a Cleric
If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can interpret what it's saying by reading its lips. <-- great for roleplaying and picking up clues
You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation) scores. <-- also very useful in general
All of this would fit "the theme" I want for my character.
No, because feats are specifically designed to not purely tie into class themes.
But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
The 'themes' of the classes is just a tool for the players not for the characters, something that lets a new player understand roughly what that class is like. I'm struggling to understand how you see immersion as a rigorous following of traditional class roles when thats not how either the game or any fantasy world that makes sense is designed, any character created to be even slightly realistic isn't thinking "I'm a fighter therefore I do [A],[B] and [C]", they're thinking "I'm Brian Warriorman, an adventurer with a thirst for danger" and the class/build/feats/skills/proficiencies fit the character. If everyone was just building homogenous versions of classes that all have to follow rigid themes and mechanics then why even bother letting people create characters just tell them "Hey you're playing as this fighter, you use a sword and shield and you can't do anything different".
No, because feats are specifically designed to not purely tie into class themes.
But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
The 'themes' of the classes is just a tool for the players not for the characters, something that lets a new player understand roughly what that class is like. I'm struggling to understand how you see immersion as a rigorous following of traditional class roles when thats not how either the game or any fantasy world that makes sense is designed, any character created to be even slightly realistic isn't thinking "I'm a fighter therefore I do [A],[B] and [C]", they're thinking "I'm Brian Warriorman, an adventurer with a thirst for danger" and the class/build/feats/skills/proficiencies fit the character. If everyone was just building homogenous versions of classes that all have to follow rigid themes and mechanics then why even bother letting people create characters just tell them "Hey you're playing as this fighter, you use a sword and shield and you can't do anything different".
Exactly, if every part of your character had to be tied into your "class theme," we wouldn't have races or backgrounds.
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And the game would be boring as h**l, Rather than optimizing a character with a pre planned sequence of picks for each level try creating a back story explaining race, background and motivation then, after getting into their head a bit try to make the “decisions” the character would make with little or no knowledge of the future or any preplanned design. At worst they have a sort of “hero worship” plan - That person saved/destroyed my family, I want to be like/be able to destroy them. Then make the choices that seem reasonable to get there at each level - remember, we the players see the levels, the characters generally don’t. At worst it’s like ( I think) Yurei said: my mage sees herself as a member of the 6th circle because she can cast 6th level spells.
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I'd like to see feats divided into combat and non-combat, with more non-combat feats given at creation and leveling. A fallen Aasimar with telepathic is fun to RP. Necrotic Shroud and whispering doom is great for interrogations. Its quite an easy DM call to allow an extra non-combat feat, an extra language or two, or a (mostly) non-combat proficiency such as insight or deception at creation at least.
Agreed, their are many more feats than there are different ability scores, and as others have said, they do not generally tie into class options, meaning that you can't gain the effect of many feats in other ways. Some feats may work better in some campaigns, and some less good in others. But the beauty of feats is that they provide are so many different options, and they can work so well with many different campaigns and characters, and help fix character holes where an ability score wouldn't.
For example, I once played a wizard who kept getting hit and nearly dying, he needed more HP. With other characters I had been buffing my con score for more HP, but doing that only gave me a max of 1 extra hit point per a level. When I took the tough feat, I got double that.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.But then doesn't that contradict the whole purpose of having a theme to begin with? Immersion and class roles. What if each class had a list of feats players could choose from? That way feats don't disrupt the theme.
Opinion on immersion and class roles vary from player to player and table to table. I find it extremely un-immersive if everyone is the same, with the only difference being ASI distribution, and even then, it probably is not going to be very different either. Strict adherence to traditional class roles (or any kind of tradition) is also very boring and not fun.
If you are the GM, feel free to restrict feats however you want, just make sure to talk it over with your players first.
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So, you're suggesting that feats work like spell lists do, with certain feats only available to certain classes? I don't really see how that'll achieve anything new. Most feats are already sorted by class type, after a manner - my wizard never even considered GWM, for instance. Having class feat lists will just restrict creativity.
If you mean just have them as part of classes abilities, then we already do, in a sense. Any classes and subclasses automatically get abilities that others don't.
For what it's worth, I feel that two things would improve my experience with feats:
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In my opinion, no, feats don't disrupt "the theme" they complement it.
As example let's take a chara I'm not playing right now, but want to play in the future.
He's a Chaotic Good Drow Light Domain Cleric of Eilistraee with the Criminal background.
Backstory: He run with the wrong crowd (followers of Vhaeraun), nearly got in too deep (scarred his own face and nearly cut off his tongue) before a priestess of Eilistraee found him and nursed him back to health. He saw her kindness and asked if he could learn from her and that's how he became a Cleric.
I do not want to multiclass into Rogue (just not a fan of multiclassing), yet I would like to have him some skills that fit together with his Criminal background, so I plan on taking the Observant feat, which will give him:
All of this would fit "the theme" I want for my character.
The 'themes' of the classes is just a tool for the players not for the characters, something that lets a new player understand roughly what that class is like. I'm struggling to understand how you see immersion as a rigorous following of traditional class roles when thats not how either the game or any fantasy world that makes sense is designed, any character created to be even slightly realistic isn't thinking "I'm a fighter therefore I do [A],[B] and [C]", they're thinking "I'm Brian Warriorman, an adventurer with a thirst for danger" and the class/build/feats/skills/proficiencies fit the character. If everyone was just building homogenous versions of classes that all have to follow rigid themes and mechanics then why even bother letting people create characters just tell them "Hey you're playing as this fighter, you use a sword and shield and you can't do anything different".
Exactly, if every part of your character had to be tied into your "class theme," we wouldn't have races or backgrounds.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.And the game would be boring as h**l, Rather than optimizing a character with a pre planned sequence of picks for each level try creating a back story explaining race, background and motivation then, after getting into their head a bit try to make the “decisions” the character would make with little or no knowledge of the future or any preplanned design. At worst they have a sort of “hero worship” plan - That person saved/destroyed my family, I want to be like/be able to destroy them. Then make the choices that seem reasonable to get there at each level - remember, we the players see the levels, the characters generally don’t. At worst it’s like ( I think) Yurei said: my mage sees herself as a member of the 6th circle because she can cast 6th level spells.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.