I was first introduced to DnD in the late 80s. I didn't actually play then, but my friends and I had dice and the Monster's Manual from the period (I feel like it was the Monstrous Compendium or something along those lines). But I swear I remember the d4 having only one number on each face and to determine what you rolled you had to pick it up and look at the bottom number (or use the process of elimination based on the visible numbers).
However, I can't find any dice or even references or pictures of dice like this anywhere on the interwebs. Do I have a false memory? Or was our d4 some weird knock off?
Sounds like a weird knockoff. It's possible that it was one of those die where the number appears on the bottom, flat part of the d4, and those are so uncommon now that you just remember it as being inherently different in some way. Although now that I'm saying that, it would still make sense if the d4 was designed in such a way that, when rolled, only one number is right side up... I can imagine someone designing and selling a d4 in that style, but if it was ever the default for d4's it didn't stay the default for very long.
Found this janky thing on eBay. I clearly remember my friend's older brother explaining to me how you had to pick the die up to read the number on the bottom. So I guess we had a late 80s knock off d4.
Bought a pair of "runic" d4s at my local shop a while back, in a sort of double-horseshoe/rounded-d6 shape. I don't ever get to roll physical dice, but I'll say this - if I had the chance to play in person, I don't think I'd ever roll anything else. You don't understand how much you hate the stupid caltrop until you get a d4 that actually rolls when you roll it. Yeah, it rolls cocked sometimes because the shape is a bit jank, but so does every other non-caltrop gaming die. I'll gladly take the occasional cocked roll in exchange for a d4 that rolls even smoother than a typical d6.
It's not a pick-up-the-bottom d4, but I heartily recommend it anyways.
I wonder how fair those horseshoe d4s are. Whether they're equally likely to roll any given number. Obviously, due to their shape they won't be completely random once it's left your hand (depending on what side or edge it hits the table, the pair of numbers it could be will be heavily influenced, but whether it can be reliably randomised your hand is a crucial question).
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I wonder how fair those horseshoe d4s are. Whether they're equally likely to roll any given number. Obviously, due to their shape they won't be completely random once it's left your hand (depending on what side or edge it hits the table, the pair of numbers it could be will be heavily influenced, but whether it can be reliably randomised your hand is a crucial question).
I think you're underestimating the actual random nature of a die roll where even the slightest difference in the angle it hits the table with can change the end result. If you're really worried just give a flick of your wrist as you roll it to get a twist going to it so you don't know which side hits first, and the momentum makes it bounce around even more so on all three axes. Much like how some people insist that "spin down" d20s aren't random, it only ever isn't if the person rolling it is very intentionally trying to roll it in an extremely particular and easy to spot way (in the case of a spin down basically spinning it like a top rather than actually rolling so the bigger numbers are always facing up).
Not really. If my wife is very much likely to repeat a result (or at least get a similar one) when she rolls the die. It's not intentional because it will happen even when the result is undesirable - and that's without referring to her.hinest nature. Dice aren't really random and they can be manipulated (even unintentionally). If the die doesn't lend itself to randomness anyway, that effect will be magnified. While I'm not the kind of person that is overly bothered by it, I don't water test my.dice.or anything, you do want dice that will tend to randomise their initial position while the person is shaking them.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
My first d4 in 78ish (sorry was a little young) had the numbers on the bottom. It was the first red box set. I do remember that they had a "backup dice" set you could buy in some of the stores I saw it in. The whole set for $2 or $3 they hadn't gotten into dice obsession territory yet. I've never come across a d4 that didn't have the essential design until very recently with the approximately rectangular one.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
My first d4 in 78ish (sorry was a little young) had the numbers on the bottom. It was the first red box set. I do remember that they had a "backup dice" set you could buy in some of the stores I saw it in. The whole set for $2 or $3 they hadn't gotten into dice obsession territory yet. I've never come across a d4 that didn't have the essential design until very recently with the approximately rectangular one.
Two or three bucks in 1978? You could buy a small car for that much back then, couldn't you? Okay, upon a brief search, you could get about a half a tank of gas for a small to midsized vehicle but it won't even get you half a gallon in a lot of places today...
I was first introduced to DnD in the late 80s. I didn't actually play then, but my friends and I had dice and the Monster's Manual from the period (I feel like it was the Monstrous Compendium or something along those lines). But I swear I remember the d4 having only one number on each face and to determine what you rolled you had to pick it up and look at the bottom number (or use the process of elimination based on the visible numbers).
However, I can't find any dice or even references or pictures of dice like this anywhere on the interwebs. Do I have a false memory? Or was our d4 some weird knock off?
Sounds like a weird knockoff. It's possible that it was one of those die where the number appears on the bottom, flat part of the d4, and those are so uncommon now that you just remember it as being inherently different in some way. Although now that I'm saying that, it would still make sense if the d4 was designed in such a way that, when rolled, only one number is right side up... I can imagine someone designing and selling a d4 in that style, but if it was ever the default for d4's it didn't stay the default for very long.
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Checking some historical references, the current way the d4 is numbered dates back to at least 1972.
Found this janky thing on eBay. I clearly remember my friend's older brother explaining to me how you had to pick the die up to read the number on the bottom. So I guess we had a late 80s knock off d4.
Bought a pair of "runic" d4s at my local shop a while back, in a sort of double-horseshoe/rounded-d6 shape. I don't ever get to roll physical dice, but I'll say this - if I had the chance to play in person, I don't think I'd ever roll anything else. You don't understand how much you hate the stupid caltrop until you get a d4 that actually rolls when you roll it. Yeah, it rolls cocked sometimes because the shape is a bit jank, but so does every other non-caltrop gaming die. I'll gladly take the occasional cocked roll in exchange for a d4 that rolls even smoother than a typical d6.
It's not a pick-up-the-bottom d4, but I heartily recommend it anyways.
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I've got a pair of those dice too, but they're numbered as d2's. Each "horseshoe" is a side: https://wuerfel-stube.de/2-sided-dice
I've also got a d3, two different d5's, a d7, 9, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 22, 24, 30, 60, 100, and 120.
I love using the odd sided dice for Great Old One themed homebrew.
I still have dice from the early 80s and the d4 looks the same as the current ones.
I have d4s with numbers at the top (point) and numbers on the bottom (flat not underneath).
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I wonder how fair those horseshoe d4s are. Whether they're equally likely to roll any given number. Obviously, due to their shape they won't be completely random once it's left your hand (depending on what side or edge it hits the table, the pair of numbers it could be will be heavily influenced, but whether it can be reliably randomised your hand is a crucial question).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think you're underestimating the actual random nature of a die roll where even the slightest difference in the angle it hits the table with can change the end result. If you're really worried just give a flick of your wrist as you roll it to get a twist going to it so you don't know which side hits first, and the momentum makes it bounce around even more so on all three axes. Much like how some people insist that "spin down" d20s aren't random, it only ever isn't if the person rolling it is very intentionally trying to roll it in an extremely particular and easy to spot way (in the case of a spin down basically spinning it like a top rather than actually rolling so the bigger numbers are always facing up).
Not really. If my wife is very much likely to repeat a result (or at least get a similar one) when she rolls the die. It's not intentional because it will happen even when the result is undesirable - and that's without referring to her.hinest nature. Dice aren't really random and they can be manipulated (even unintentionally). If the die doesn't lend itself to randomness anyway, that effect will be magnified. While I'm not the kind of person that is overly bothered by it, I don't water test my.dice.or anything, you do want dice that will tend to randomise their initial position while the person is shaking them.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
My first d4 in 78ish (sorry was a little young) had the numbers on the bottom. It was the first red box set. I do remember that they had a "backup dice" set you could buy in some of the stores I saw it in. The whole set for $2 or $3 they hadn't gotten into dice obsession territory yet. I've never come across a d4 that didn't have the essential design until very recently with the approximately rectangular one.
Now you just need some truly non-Euclidean dice...
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Two or three bucks in 1978? You could buy a small car for that much back then, couldn't you? Okay, upon a brief search, you could get about a half a tank of gas for a small to midsized vehicle but it won't even get you half a gallon in a lot of places today...
More on topic, there are various different "alternative" designs for d4s. The first time I ever played D&D, guesting in a 2e game in the mid 90s with some friends, I was loaned a d4 to use that was basically a stretched out cube or a squared off cylinder with the smaller ends angled to points so it always comes up on one of the four flat sides. Like the one shown here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1135461864/sapphire-geode-dice-dungeons-and-dragons?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=d4 dice&ref=sr_gallery-1-21&frs=1