Hence the question? I wouldn't ask if I knew the answer.
I'm not even sure why you're telling me about what the PHB is and where I can find the Dragonborn. I asked you about your statement because it was different to what I would have expected. You just intended something other than what it sounded like, that's all.
I'm telling you about it because I would literally have to have never read it to say something that ignorant.
As a flip side I find it dumb that so many creatures of Darkvision... In any given campaign I can assume about half my players have darkvision. I think they use it far to liberally.
A lot of races do have darkvision yeah. Though if you hold to how it actually works, that they have disadvantage on perception in what is 'dim light' for them still, it can still encourage them to use light at least some of the time to avoid being ambushed in the dark. I find the spread of darkvision to mostly be an issue if DMs just let it completely negate non magical darkness as an obstacle and never have enemies lurking in that dim light.
If half-elves and half-orcs have darkvision as a racial ability, why not dragonborn? The Monster Manual has a half-dragon template. Take most any creature and add breath weapon and resistance to that type of damage (based on color of dragon lineage), knowledge of draconic, and blindsight and darkvision. Yet the PH does not provide darkvision or blindsight to DB, who are in pretty much every other way just a human using the half-dragon template. Is this an oversight (pardon the pun)? I can't think of a reason not to allow DB PCs to have darkvision at least and possibly blindsight. Sure, some say DB are generations removed from full-blood dragons, but still. Seems darkvision is a dominant gene among other races, so most DB should have it.
Kind sucks being the only member of your party to stumble around in a dark dungeon without darkvision. I'm gonna ask my DM to allow it. Just looking to see if anyone has a strong counterargument for why it should not be so.
I didn’t read the whole thread, but I agree with the OP.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I agree that many, maybe too many, playable species have darkvision*. However, dragons have darkvision, so it would make sense for dragonborn to have darkvision too. In addition, dragonborn are fairly underpowered as options go, so darkvision would be great. Other ways you could buff them would be to increase the damage die/dice number of their breath weapon by one, increase the usage of their breath weapon to (con mod) or (proficiency bonus) per rest, or to give them a flight speed equal to their walking speed but they fall at the end of their turn. In conclusion, dragons are iconic and I find it a little sad how underpowered dragonborn are. Maybe this is on purpose, but if I wanted to play a dragon character then I would go for a class with polymorph or a Draconic Ancestor sorcerer. Considering that dragonborn are actually descended from dragons, I think that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to at least give them darkvision, at least out to 30 ft.
*If you're interested in lowering the number of playable species with darkvision, I like what Matthew Mercer did with elves and half-elves by turning their darkvision into low-light vision. It makes more sense for most creatures in the feywild to have low-light vision instead of true darkvision anyway. For Orcs (and by extension half-orcs), I don't know why they have darkvision. I never saw them as nocturnal creatures, although I could be mistaken. You could always give half-orcs darkvision out to 30 ft. or low-light vision instead. Yuan-ti are another race which don't need darkvision. Snakes can't see in the dark, and Yuan-ti are based of humans, which are daytime-oriented anyway.
For Orcs (and by extension half-orcs), I don't know why they have darkvision. I never saw them as nocturnal creatures, although I could be mistaken. You could always give half-orcs darkvision out to 30 ft. or low-light vision instead. Yuan-ti are another race which don't need darkvision. Snakes can't see in the dark, and Yuan-ti are based of humans, which are daytime-oriented anyway.
Orc have long had darkvision because Tolkien portrayed them as mostly-nocturnal beings that were adapted to the gloom of Moria or living deep underground that hated sunlight and were weakened by it.
Yuan-Ti have darkvision because they're based more on the serpent cults that did their evil deeds in the dark in classic fantasy settings like Conan stories. And also, many snakes can see considerably better in the dark than humans can even before you take into account the number of snakes that can detect heat via the pit organs on their faces and consequently can operate in near-total darkness.
Snakes have blindsight, which better represents their ability to detect heat. This is why snakes, from vipers to giant pythons, have limited blindsight but no darkvision. I understand that blindsight would be too powerful for a character though, which is why dragonborn don't get blindsight. As for the orcs, I understand. However, by that same logic shouldn't dragonborn get darkvision since dragons live in dark places?
The difference is that dragonborn are only similar to dragons, they're not actually dragons. And really, as has been said already, there is an overabundance of creatures that have Darkvision.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They will in 5.5e as per the latest UA that contained them (Cleric & Species, aka UA 3), prior to which they already cleared the acceptance threshold on everything but the breath weapon (which was subsequently fixed), so this thread is likely moot.
If half-elves and half-orcs have darkvision as a racial ability, why not dragonborn? The Monster Manual has a half-dragon template. Take most any creature and add breath weapon and resistance to that type of damage (based on color of dragon lineage), knowledge of draconic, and blindsight and darkvision. Yet the PH does not provide darkvision or blindsight to DB, who are in pretty much every other way just a human using the half-dragon template. Is this an oversight (pardon the pun)? I can't think of a reason not to allow DB PCs to have darkvision at least and possibly blindsight. Sure, some say DB are generations removed from full-blood dragons, but still. Seems darkvision is a dominant gene among other races, so most DB should have it.
Kind sucks being the only member of your party to stumble around in a dark dungeon without darkvision. I'm gonna ask my DM to allow it. Just looking to see if anyone has a strong counterargument for why it should not be so.
Kind sucks being the only member of your party to stumble around in a dark dungeon without darkvision. I'm gonna ask my DM to allow it.
Why not ask your DM to just allow it for Humans, Halflings, Warforged, or the rest of the half of all races that don’t get Darkvision then too.
Humans, or at least variant humans have more than enough going for them without. Warforged, too. Not sure current thought on Halflings. Even with the Fizbin version, do Dragonborn, though?
FIZBAN NOT FIZBIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(
First off, I have no interest in dragonborn, but I can certainly understand why one would want to have more abilities for their chosen PC. Perhaps in this context, fewer handicaps might be a better way to put it. Over time however, making these adjustments on an official level pushes the game rules steadily toward the homogenization of the player races/folk/species.
I for one am not a fan of this equalizing of all the player races/folk/species abilities and disadvantages.
If those at your table are good with it, go for it.
If half-elves and half-orcs have darkvision as a racial ability, why not dragonborn? The Monster Manual has a half-dragon template. Take most any creature and add breath weapon and resistance to that type of damage (based on color of dragon lineage), knowledge of draconic, and blindsight and darkvision. Yet the PH does not provide darkvision or blindsight to DB, who are in pretty much every other way just a human using the half-dragon template. Is this an oversight (pardon the pun)? I can't think of a reason not to allow DB PCs to have darkvision at least and possibly blindsight. Sure, some say DB are generations removed from full-blood dragons, but still. Seems darkvision is a dominant gene among other races, so most DB should have it.
Kind sucks being the only member of your party to stumble around in a dark dungeon without darkvision. I'm gonna ask my DM to allow it. Just looking to see if anyone has a strong counterargument for why it should not be so.
The correct answer is that Half-Elves and Half-Orcs should not have Darkvision either. Far too many species have Darkvision.
The correct answer is that Half-Elves and Half-Orcs should not have Darkvision either. Far too many species have Darkvision.
Even if Dragonborn join the darkvision club as seems likely to happen in OneD&D, there are still around 26 other first-party races without it. You really don't need to take it away from anyone else.
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I'm telling you about it because I would literally have to have never read it to say something that ignorant.
As a flip side I find it dumb that so many creatures of Darkvision... In any given campaign I can assume about half my players have darkvision. I think they use it far to liberally.
A lot of races do have darkvision yeah. Though if you hold to how it actually works, that they have disadvantage on perception in what is 'dim light' for them still, it can still encourage them to use light at least some of the time to avoid being ambushed in the dark. I find the spread of darkvision to mostly be an issue if DMs just let it completely negate non magical darkness as an obstacle and never have enemies lurking in that dim light.
I didn’t read the whole thread, but I agree with the OP.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I agree that many, maybe too many, playable species have darkvision*. However, dragons have darkvision, so it would make sense for dragonborn to have darkvision too. In addition, dragonborn are fairly underpowered as options go, so darkvision would be great. Other ways you could buff them would be to increase the damage die/dice number of their breath weapon by one, increase the usage of their breath weapon to (con mod) or (proficiency bonus) per rest, or to give them a flight speed equal to their walking speed but they fall at the end of their turn.
In conclusion, dragons are iconic and I find it a little sad how underpowered dragonborn are. Maybe this is on purpose, but if I wanted to play a dragon character then I would go for a class with polymorph or a Draconic Ancestor sorcerer. Considering that dragonborn are actually descended from dragons, I think that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to at least give them darkvision, at least out to 30 ft.
*If you're interested in lowering the number of playable species with darkvision, I like what Matthew Mercer did with elves and half-elves by turning their darkvision into low-light vision. It makes more sense for most creatures in the feywild to have low-light vision instead of true darkvision anyway.
For Orcs (and by extension half-orcs), I don't know why they have darkvision. I never saw them as nocturnal creatures, although I could be mistaken. You could always give half-orcs darkvision out to 30 ft. or low-light vision instead.
Yuan-ti are another race which don't need darkvision. Snakes can't see in the dark, and Yuan-ti are based of humans, which are daytime-oriented anyway.
Orc have long had darkvision because Tolkien portrayed them as mostly-nocturnal beings that were adapted to the gloom of Moria or living deep underground that hated sunlight and were weakened by it.
Yuan-Ti have darkvision because they're based more on the serpent cults that did their evil deeds in the dark in classic fantasy settings like Conan stories. And also, many snakes can see considerably better in the dark than humans can even before you take into account the number of snakes that can detect heat via the pit organs on their faces and consequently can operate in near-total darkness.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Snakes have blindsight, which better represents their ability to detect heat. This is why snakes, from vipers to giant pythons, have limited blindsight but no darkvision. I understand that blindsight would be too powerful for a character though, which is why dragonborn don't get blindsight.
As for the orcs, I understand. However, by that same logic shouldn't dragonborn get darkvision since dragons live in dark places?
The difference is that dragonborn are only similar to dragons, they're not actually dragons. And really, as has been said already, there is an overabundance of creatures that have Darkvision.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They will in 5.5e as per the latest UA that contained them (Cleric & Species, aka UA 3), prior to which they already cleared the acceptance threshold on everything but the breath weapon (which was subsequently fixed), so this thread is likely moot.
because no reason (they should have it)
fizban not fizbin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FIZBAN NOT FIZBIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(
I don't play Dragonborn, but this is interesting IDK why, but D&D is not a perfect game...
"Big sword, bigger brain"
-BigBrainGoblin
Fr
Good question
Agree with this post
First off, I have no interest in dragonborn, but I can certainly understand why one would want to have more abilities for their chosen PC. Perhaps in this context, fewer handicaps might be a better way to put it. Over time however, making these adjustments on an official level pushes the game rules steadily toward the homogenization of the player races/folk/species.
I for one am not a fan of this equalizing of all the player races/folk/species abilities and disadvantages.
If those at your table are good with it, go for it.
The correct answer is that Half-Elves and Half-Orcs should not have Darkvision either. Far too many species have Darkvision.
Even if Dragonborn join the darkvision club as seems likely to happen in OneD&D, there are still around 26 other first-party races without it. You really don't need to take it away from anyone else.