Quote from XavierWindswallow >>

Quote from ChoirOfFire >>

 

7. New players don't play to the action economy. They play to the story in combat. You might see them interact with the scene using their action instead of making two attacks, which would be more efficient. They will aim attacks at the monsters who have personally offended them instead of the ones that have the lowest hit points, because they're not thinking about removing the number of turns the opposition gets, they're thinking of the way their character feels. You get more dynamic and cinematic fights this way, I feel. But you also die more.

8. They won't stop themselves from attempting something just because they realized their bonus isn't the highest in the party for that thing. They'll try to persuade NPCs even with a +0 because it makes sense to do so.

 

 I think you're saying that these are good things and I agree.  I try to make choices for my characters based on their personalities over what is the most powerful or does the most damage.  Yes there is a higher risk of dying, but D&D is ultimately a role playing game.  If the goal is just to be the most powerful and "level up" you might as well be playing a video game.

I still feel unsure what ChoirOfFire's exact intention was with 7 & 8 (and back to the thing about metagaming and also the goal of trying to maximize fun) 

It seems like some awareness of action economy makes combat session more fun for a lot of reasons.  Working corporatively with other party members in combat is more fun than just doing your own thing (athough I think figuring out how to corporate in combat can hard for new players).  

Removing emotion from combat (or anything else) seem less fun, I think.

I think letting your ability and skill numbers completely dectate what you attempt is probably not adding to fun.  I guess allowing the player/charcter who built their character to be good at something, to mostly handle doing that thing, is probably more fun for them (might make for better roleplay, or maybe not, in certain circumstances) and their highly likelihood of success is likley to add to the fun for everyone in the party.  

I guess characters would be vaguely aware of who is good at what and what kinds of tasks each character in the party tends to handle, even though they are not aware of their stats,  so maybe this is not metagaming or otherwise 'bad".

It always seems tempteding to try a Charisma based skill, even when playing a charcter with low Charisma and no proficany in that skill.  

I think it's good to play to the narrative. You often lose that, the more you play. Maybe there's a threshold at which you start to gain it back again. But in my experience, it's never really the same.

Quote from Chaffer >>

I think it's good to play to the narrative. You often lose that, the more you play. Maybe there's a threshold at which you start to gain it back again. But in my experience, it's never really the same.

 Thank you for clarifying; that's helpful and seems exactly right!

New insight:  Positives about newer players

I think they might tend to get into their characters more (might love or identify with their characters more)

Everything is new and fresh and exciting

Might tend to interpret most everything about the game, other players and GM more positively and perceive everything as more fun and be more apted to miss or else overlook flaws in the game.

Might try harder (in many ways) which tends to make things more fun.

Basically "Enthusiasm" 

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It really is a lot of fun to play with someone who really identifies with their character and thinks that everything that happens in the game is fun and awesome.  it's kind of infectious.

*** now about me ***

I've found that lately I've been trying less hard on character development and probably some other things and I think it lessens my fun, and perhaps the amount of fun that I (hopefully) bring.  I mean doing all the stuff on character development takes some time and effort and I've been worried about getting too attached to my characters, in case a character dies.

I also feel blocked and like my best ideas for character development might be behind me (and I haven't even done that many, espeically in the grand scheme of things).  

Recently, instead of carefully crafted backstories and personality profiles, I've been letting AI generated art do a lot of the heavy lifting on defining my character, both in my mind and in general.  

I think the result has been a recent string of less interesting characters that I'm still overly emotionally invested in at least in the sense that I'd be kind of devastated if something happened to them.  So that has gone completely in the wrong direction.  

I want my previous level of enthusiasm back.  I think now I will have to work to have that, whereas a while back it was more effortless. 

Quote from intrepidgnome >>

I'm a newer player and I've read/seen some things that seem to allude to the fact that newer players and seasoned players tend to go about things a bit differently.  I think I want to know more about this and why.  

What are some things players do that are  hallmarks or give aways that they are newer players?  (what do newer players do that's really cringy?)

A relatively new experience for me, as a veteran, returning player/DM: People's video gaming experiences tend to come into play, and some new players may forget that there are other people at the table who one should work with, cooperate with, and make compromises with, because of this human interaction. When most if not all of one's prior gaming experience is "me and the computer", or "me, the computer, and some other people's avatars", truly cooperative play, and understanding that other folks want their turn in the spotlight, may take some getting used to. The game master can only truly focus on one player's needs, desires, and actions at one time.

Are choices about alignment informed by experience level?  What about the kinds of backstories players write? Use of flavor and language?  What they consider fun?  Use of humor?  Problem solving? Ethical consideration?  What they put effort into or prioritize or find interesting? I can think of no solid newbies vs veterans examples here, just individual preferences. Speaking for myself, as someone who has played many characters over the decades, I have reached the point where the story line, and game flavor, have become more important to me than the mechanical aspects of the game. After playing X fighters, X rogues, X magic users, . . . , I no longer care so much about the build, and the progression of my character's mechanical usefulness or awesomeness. This preference often puts me in the oddball position, at a table with players who focus mostly on the game mechanics and the acquisition of goodies that offer further game advantage. 

I think newer players  are allowed more leeway in certain areas.   Does that include things like character concept choices and our roleplaying choices? I'm extremely aware that other players are showing tolerance in other areas like knowledge of  game rules and mechanics, but maybe I'm also being shown tolerance in ways that I'm not even aware of.  It feels like that might be the case, and perhaps the leeway and tolerance that newer players might be given, in order to encourage them to love the game might affect the way we play, not that that's bad or anything, I'm very grateful that when I very fist started out, that I wasn't expected to know about everything and was sort of allowed to play with a lighter version of the rules, for a while,  but now I think I might like to at least know when that sort of thing might be happening. I for one encourage role play, as that's the core source of enjoyment for me. Others might gloss over role play, some to the point of "I'm not gonna do that sh*t," and instead may focus all of their energy on min/maxing that character's mechanical stats for optimal use in the setting as they know it. Different play styles, for sure. Neither is "wrong", but it is certainly tougher for any player to enjoy themselves if everyone at the table wants to play a different type of game. Think back to video gaming, where most everything can at least be somewhat personalized to suit the player's desires. Difficult to do that at a table with other people around it.

What lessons does experience give you than informs they way you play and the choices that you make about your character and how you play and roleplay them?  What do veteran players know and do, that newer players haven't figured out yet, that make things better? Again, for me, the mechanics no longer hold as much importance for me, as they did when I played 30 or 40 years ago. I like living the story through my character. An extension of this: I don't like playing more than one character, not wild about henchmen (or whatever the most appropriate term is these days. I can't effectively focus my role playing onto multiple individuals; I get lost. How to make things better? Understanding what you, and the others at the table, are looking for in the gaming sessions, and finding the compromise that's acceptable to all.

What positives might possibly be lost over time, as someone has played perhaps dozens of characters, (if anything might be lost)?  Or does it just keep getting better and better?  I feel like there might be something that newer players have to offer, beyond just perpetuation and expansion of the game, otherwise, maybe we would not be warmly invited in and tolerated until we figure some stuff out.  Is there some kind of a sweet spot to aim for, that combines the best traits of newer and seasoned players? Though there are exceptions in the world, people tend to like helping other folk. There's a sense of reward in bringing someone new into the game, and seeing them enjoying themselves because of your help. Anyone who might insist that a newbie "learn the game, then come and talk to us" are missing the point. Even if a newbie does this, the group that insisted the newbie learn the game elsewhere will likely not be pleased to discover that the newbie learned the game "wrong", according to their group's mindset.

From my experience, newer players lean towards the hack-and-slash, more juvenile elements of D&D (not to insult any fighter mains, of course) and shirk away from role-playing. Perhaps that’s more to do with maturity rather than playing experience, but somehow the two go hand in hand. Experienced players are less inhibited in getting into character but also take more care in playing in a realistic way, building a believable character and investing in the storyline, rather than rolling along wherever the DM sends them.

Also, new players tend to go for more wholesome but lame-mechanical moves and avoid metagaming more then the experienced gamers. For instance, the players in someof my first adventures gave away a magic wand and swept a temple for free, not because of a reward they hoped for but because they got less satisfaction from the power and more from making the NPCs and themselves happy. As I played more and more, maybe it's just me, but I lost the carefree desire to just do good things for nothing as an adventurer and even had fun playing a couple villains (super-villain story-arc begins here!).