So... Any one wanna hazard a guess at when Hasbro/WotC's going to actually react to the shitstorm they created?
They don't really have to. (Although they'll probably issue some sort of feel good statement when these type of threads calm down)
They've likely already made deals with large 3rd party creators (who signed NDA's), and they probably don't care about the small ones.
They've probably also calculated the potential number of lost customers vs. new ones who will come on board via the movie(s), merchandising, and such, as well as the monetization of those who stick around. And despite all of the people proclaiming to never buy or play D&D again, WoTC is counting on most of them coming back.
All corps do cost/benefit analysis, and WoTC/Hasbro is no exception. I'm sure the analysis concluded that 1.1 would ultimately result in a net positive for them.
Otoh, know it all c-suite types ram their personal "great ideas" and pet projects past objections, concerns, and risk assessments they don't like all the time.
They could be scrambling to pivot and change course after public outcry.
We can hope.
That's a lot of hopium your are snorting their, be careful!
Exactly. They're not coming for their IP, that was already protected in 1.0. They're coming for your IP. They want that too.
Pretty much nobody supports that provision from the leak, I highly doubt it ends up sticking around. If it does, well, it's pretty safe to say 1DnD will fail.
Please understand, that that outcome would not be a win for the community. The OGL 1.0a was designed to be an immutible promise to the community and the third-party support sector. The fact that WotC are perfectly comfortable in going back on their word on such a fundamentally core written agreement with its audience has shattered any due trust for the company going forward. Nothing in the OGL 1.1 is an IMPROVEMENT on the original. If they reversed 99% of it and released it, it would still be harm done to the community. OGL 1.1 doesn't need to be reigned in, or lessened, or revised, it needs to be prevented completely. Full stop.
There is another thread describing reasons that 1.0a should not stick around unchanged, and I support that viewpoint, even as I oppose the current leaked 1.1.
If you haven’t listened it it yet, I strongly suggest watching the Ryan Dancey youtube video show above. It, either directly or indirectly, addresses the five items from the other thread you mentioned (most of which boil down to protecting and monitizing Hasbro’s IP).
Hasbro IP, as defined as the 5.0 SRD, is already protected under the current situation. The SRD specifically states what is protected property of Hasbro, and no one can legally use any of these terms in their document. The first protected term is Dungeons and Dragons. If you publish under the SRD and OGL, you are legally bound NOT to reference Dungeons and Dragons. Hasbro has also by virtue of releasing these term (and the rest of the SRD) stated what they are legally comfortable with a third party using to profit off of. They have specifically decided what you can and can’t use. The whole arguement about creating competitors is bull and anti competitive. They have the right to say what you can and can’t use. Argue,ents 3-5 are simply anti-competitive malarkey.
Dancey is right - this is a simple question. Can Hasbro change the terms of the OGL that prior SRD were released under, replacing the older OGL with a new OGL? Hasbro states they can, but I would argue that the terms of the original OGL prevent this.
BTW - in case you’re curious, here is the list of protected items from the 5.1 SRD. No third party can use any of this without a separate agreement with Hasbro:
The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master, Monster Manual, d20 System, Wizards of the Coast, d20 (when used as a trademark), Forgotten Realms, Faerûn, proper names (including those used in the names of spells or items), places, Underdark, Red Wizard of Thay, the City of Union, Heroic Domains of Ysgard, Ever-‐‑ Changing Chaos of Limbo, Windswept Depths of Pandemonium, Infinite Layers of the Abyss, Tarterian Depths of Carceri, Gray Waste of Hades, Bleak Eternity of Gehenna, Nine Hells of Baator, Infernal Battlefield of Acheron, Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus, Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia, Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia, Twin Paradises of Bytopia, Blessed Fields of Elysium, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Olympian Glades of Arborea, Concordant Domain of the Outlands, Sigil, Lady of Pain, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanar’ri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan-‐‑ti.
Yes, I've listened to Dancey's opinion. Believing brand damage can only occur with regards to Product Identity is an optimistic take. And sure, he believes they can't revoke the original OGL, but ultimately it's not up to him.
So... Any one wanna hazard a guess at when Hasbro/WotC's going to actually react to the shitstorm they created?
They don't really have to. (Although they'll probably issue some sort of feel good statement when these type of threads calm down)
They've likely already made deals with large 3rd party creators (who signed NDA's), and they probably don't care about the small ones.
They've probably also calculated the potential number of lost customers vs. new ones who will come on board via the movie(s), merchandising, and such, as well as the monetization of those who stick around. And despite all of the people proclaiming to never buy or play D&D again, WoTC is counting on most of them coming back.
All corps do cost/benefit analysis, and WoTC/Hasbro is no exception. I'm sure the analysis concluded that 1.1 would ultimately result in a net positive for them.
Otoh, know it all c-suite types ram their personal "great ideas" and pet projects past objections, concerns, and risk assessments they don't like all the time.
They could be scrambling to pivot and change course after public outcry.
We can hope.
That's a lot of hopium your are snorting their, be careful!
I've made my essential purchases and backed up my pdfs for exposed systems. Contingencies planned, insurance in place.
I can afford to hope for the best since I've planned for the worst 😉
While some on this thread hem and haw, and wait for Hasbro to "answer questions" about this "unverified leak" my friends in the outside creative community who have relied on the OGL 1.0a are not waiting.
I know those small, medium, and large TTRPG content creators are right now hard at work trying to salvage their livelihoods. Some have already spent thousands on lawyer fees based on this "unverified leak." They are writing their own OGL which will overtake the industry. And even if Hasbro does nothing, even if Hasbro were to let the OGL 1.0a stand, these creators will never forget, and never again trust this soulless corporation.
Which system will rule them all? I think we all know what that looks like. It will be a system that will allow creativity without bounds.
The creatives and innovators are enraged and engaged. What you will see in 2023 is a wave of independent open game content the likes of which has only been hinted at in the past. This Cambrian explosion of open game content will gather force until it smashes upon this rotting beached whale like a tidal wave.
The OGL of the future will not belong to Hasbro.
That sounds remarkably similar to anarchist anthems and revolutionary movements the past is littered with.
It's cute, but entirely disregards the players/costumers role in all of this. The small creators may band together and march under the banner of freedom all day long, but in the end it's going to come down to the quality of the vtt, it's pervasiveness, customer service, price, marketing and overall appeal.
We can be mad all we like, but if enough customers, old and new, only care about their game and how and were to play it best, and where to find people to play it with, the big companies are always going to have a leg up
Ah yes, the VTT. That is what this is all for, isn't it. I am sure that it will be very successful, but that isn't the topic of this thread. THis thread is about the OGL and D&D and my vision is a bit dreamy, perhaps, but again, the FUTURE of the OGL will not be in the hands of Hasbro. The FUTURE OGL will be something entirely new, it may not even be called "OGL," but I do believe these 3rd party creators will produce a universal SRD and license. It will have nothing to do with Hasbro's proprietary VTT game that they will call D&D. The VTT will come out in 2024, and it very well may be a huge success for a year or two, or 5. Then the rot will sink in, and folks will start looking for a better way to play (like they always do.) And that is when the 3rd party products will gain market. Wild Prediction: In 10 years, most TTRPG gamers are playing something else entirely while Hasbro files for bankruptcy.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Yes, I just saw this. Unfortunately this authenticity has not yet been confirmed, but I guess we'll see what they say in their 3pm video.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
In 5 minutes we will all find out if Hasbro upper management is as obtuse as we all think it might be. I am prepared to believe they have learned nothing since the MTG disaster. If so this will be a watershed moment for D&D...
money money money that all wizards care about welcome to the world of capitalism every one at the top wants their bit. So has any one herd about path finder ??
That's a lot of hopium your are snorting their, be careful!
Yes, I've listened to Dancey's opinion. Believing brand damage can only occur with regards to Product Identity is an optimistic take. And sure, he believes they can't revoke the original OGL, but ultimately it's not up to him.
I've made my essential purchases and backed up my pdfs for exposed systems. Contingencies planned, insurance in place.
I can afford to hope for the best since I've planned for the worst 😉
Ah yes, the VTT. That is what this is all for, isn't it. I am sure that it will be very successful, but that isn't the topic of this thread.
THis thread is about the OGL and D&D and my vision is a bit dreamy, perhaps, but again, the FUTURE of the OGL will not be in the hands of Hasbro.
The FUTURE OGL will be something entirely new, it may not even be called "OGL," but I do believe these 3rd party creators will produce a universal SRD and license.
It will have nothing to do with Hasbro's proprietary VTT game that they will call D&D. The VTT will come out in 2024, and it very well may be a huge success for a year or two, or 5.
Then the rot will sink in, and folks will start looking for a better way to play (like they always do.) And that is when the 3rd party products will gain market.
Wild Prediction: In 10 years, most TTRPG gamers are playing something else entirely while Hasbro files for bankruptcy.
Looks like WotC is releasing a video at 3pm EST today to address CGL 1.1. Roll for Combat YouTube channel is going to cover it.
https://twitter.com/RollForCombat/status/1613566977490001928
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Well, this will be fun!
https://twitter.com/DnD_Shorts/status/1613576298114449409?cxt=HHwWgoDQsYLGyeQsAAAA
Yes, I just saw this. Unfortunately this authenticity has not yet been confirmed, but I guess we'll see what they say in their 3pm video.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Seems to me that the timing is probably intended to have itself be "verified" by whatever comes this afternoon.
If they turn out to be a prophet, oops, confirmed.
Oops for WotC that is.
Initiate Self-Destruction in 3...2...
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
It’s a modern adaptation of the tale: The goose who laid golden eggs!
In 5 minutes we will all find out if Hasbro upper management is as obtuse as we all think it might be. I am prepared to believe they have learned nothing since the MTG disaster. If so this will be a watershed moment for D&D...
money money money that all wizards care about welcome to the world of capitalism every one at the top wants their bit. So has any one herd about path finder ??
Watchparty on now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXC4G-wdF4
www.change.org/p/stop-hasbro-s-monopoly-on-dungeons-and-dragons-a-class-action-lawsuit-petition
How did it go?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Appears that they canceled it. We’re all still waiting.
Probably canceled because it’s going to be a bloodbath.
Cancelled Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
Add your name to the #OpenDnD Letter to Wotc/Hasbro: https://www.opendnd.games/
I don't think it's happening.
Their twitch page lists a stream today 1/12 at noon (PST) has been cancelled.
I wonder if the depth to which people are upset with them is starting to sink in.