Friend. With all due respect. Ai running a game the way they imagine it is NOT advanced. It will play like a combo between a video game and a moderate choose your own adventure.
Also, go look at chatgpt running games for people. It's a real ass thing.
Have you tried those? Unless they've gotten a LOT better in the last couple months magically, they are really poor. Can't hold a plot past maybe the opening two lines
1) Yeah, it's bad. Most new technologies are, until they're not. GPS and text prediction used to suck too.
2) They've lied before and used weasel words in your link. Any AI development would have been farmed out to a development company that has AI as a core competency. That would mean that WotC was literally not working on it. Somebody else would be working on it for them.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
To be fair, what they technically confirmed is that no one is currently working on it.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people independently working on it, it's the kind of thing I can imagine people considering an interesting challenge.
I just wanted to address the comment, "Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a." in the update.
The past tense language of this will make people only read: "We are still planning on revoking 1.0a which means you cannot ever publish anything new using 1.0a again." If that is the intention I will tell you this: Nobody in the community is going to accept that. All this can be solved by adding "irrevocable" to Section 4 of the OGL 1.0a, calling it 1.0b, and then moving forward with an OGL 2.0. The old licenses need to continue to exist in their respective spheres for the health of the product.
To be fair, what they technically confirmed is that no one is currently working on it.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people independently working on it, it's the kind of thing I can imagine people considering an interesting challenge.
Nobody at Wizards of the Coast is working on it. But talking to OpenAI about a license, well, wanna bet that's happened?
So, I have watched and listened to the recorded board and shareholder meetings. I am guessing you have not...One of us is going to look silly to anyone else that has looked at past decisions by the Hasbro senior leadership.
Literally laughing out loud...
Links to said videos and recorded board sessions please?
Not wanting to take a forced vacation from the forums for a few weeks or forever I am not going to provide links on it to meeting of the highest management and shareholders of the company that owns WOTC. Use Goggle. I will make it easier and suggest you go watch or listen to the last meeting that is on the web, the 8 December 2022 meeting.
In the first 23 minutes most of what is discussed will not mean much to those who do not follow all the previous meetings but they do introduce what has been their biggest money maker, the Magic the Gathering card game, which is introduced as a video game. Really…The one person in the meeting who must know better does not correct the presenter. Think on that.
At 23 minutes in, and for next 8 minutes, the talk is really about why they lost just under 1/2 to 1/3 their stock value over MTG mishandling, but unless you have been following them you would not understand that’s what they are talking, and denying about in the meeting.
At 31 minutes they go into D&D monetizing, the woman who cuts in is Hasbro's CEO and President of WOTC - Cynthia Williams, previously from Microsoft Transactions.
At 33 minutes she calls it DDD and gets corrected off mic that its D&D or DND and calls it DND going forward.
At 37 minutes the exciting news is Chris who came up managing MTG saying he is going to release something with our D&D fans soon. you all now know what he meant.... This again is 8 December…
You can also google the attempted hostile takeover to separate WOTC from HASBRO that failed, the meeting where they explained how HASBRO lost their European Monopoly trademark after some bad faith findings by the court, and find other things I am not mention specifically here for good reasons.
After suitable research you will realize much of what has occurred is not malice, just ignorance and greed by HASBRO, who really does do the “My way or the highway” leadership.
So your striking evidence of wide scale incompetence is… them getting a few terms wrong?
So, I have watched and listened to the recorded board and shareholder meetings. I am guessing you have not...One of us is going to look silly to anyone else that has looked at past decisions by the Hasbro senior leadership.
Literally laughing out loud...
Links to said videos and recorded board sessions please?
Not wanting to take a forced vacation from the forums for a few weeks or forever I am not going to provide links on it to meeting of the highest management and shareholders of the company that owns WOTC. Use Goggle. I will make it easier and suggest you go watch or listen to the last meeting that is on the web, the 8 December 2022 meeting.
In the first 23 minutes most of what is discussed will not mean much to those who do not follow all the previous meetings but they do introduce what has been their biggest money maker, the Magic the Gathering card game, which is introduced as a video game. Really…The one person in the meeting who must know better does not correct the presenter. Think on that.
At 23 minutes in, and for next 8 minutes, the talk is really about why they lost just under 1/2 to 1/3 their stock value over MTG mishandling, but unless you have been following them you would not understand that’s what they are talking, and denying about in the meeting.
At 31 minutes they go into D&D monetizing, the woman who cuts in is Hasbro's CEO and President of WOTC - Cynthia Williams, previously from Microsoft Transactions.
At 33 minutes she calls it DDD and gets corrected off mic that its D&D or DND and calls it DND going forward.
At 37 minutes the exciting news is Chris who came up managing MTG saying he is going to release something with our D&D fans soon. you all now know what he meant.... This again is 8 December…
You can also google the attempted hostile takeover to separate WOTC from HASBRO that failed, the meeting where they explained how HASBRO lost their European Monopoly trademark after some bad faith findings by the court, and find other things I am not mention specifically here for good reasons.
After suitable research you will realize much of what has occurred is not malice, just ignorance and greed by HASBRO, who really does do the “My way or the highway” leadership.
So your striking evidence of wide scale incompetence is… them getting a few terms wrong?
It establishes a pattern of them not particularly caring about or understanding their products, what they are, and who buys them.
Them being the people in charge, making strategic decisions, and sailing straight into a metaphorical hurricane.
Nobody at Wizards of the Coast is working on it. But talking to OpenAI about a license, well, wanna bet that's happened?
It's not impossible, but I'd consider it low probability.
I fully believe that AI game masters (in a broad sense) will come, but they'll come from a video game company, not Hasbro, and they're not super close.
I mean, if you don't want to take Krispy's word for it, you can always look at what WotC want to do with the OGL for proof of their abject poor decision making. Krispy isn't pulling this out of their ass. It's not just one bad thing. It's a pattern of behavior that is clearly demonstrated in their words and actions, as has been the case since at least the time Hasbro purchased thr company, and in all honesty since before then as well.
It's not a leap in logic at all. It's common sense. It's correctly identifying that a major corporation is out for itself and its investors, and is willing to screw over its customers in the process; a corporation of the kind WotC claimed to not be working in the interests of in their response, for that matter.
This is part and parcel of living in a capitalist society, and it's certainly not limited to just WotC. When a corporation tells you it has its customers' best interests as its main priority, that corporation is lying to you, no exceptions.
And Krispy clearly is not more concerned with the CEO misspeaking than they are about WotC's poor business practices. They pointed out - correctly - that this is an indication that Hasbro's CEO has not made any attempt at understanding the product and service she's now advising business practices for.
You just can't get it right. You can't listen or understand the community can you? You've dug in and won't back down, I'm done. TSR was able to do what they did for so long because we didn't have a choice, there wasn't the electronic tech that we have now. But, the world changes and moves forward. You want to control the VTT environment? Make the best VTT with the best features and easiest use to interface. But, preventing the animations because it becomes a video game? Yeah, no. First off, you didn't come up with the idea of animations for VTTs. You didn't come up with animations for video games. Secondly, even if you do manage to win this, I will simply animate spell effects using lasers, explosions, clouds, etc. Things that are either uncopyrightable or things to emulate the animations of the spells (but not an animation FOR spells). Oh, I can't do that because it's not representative of what I could do at a table? Want to bet? Magic Missile, analog animation would simply be a string of LED lights laid down between miniatures and activated when someone casts magic missile. Hell, all I need is a little bit of electrical know how (which, btw, I have) and ingenuity. Simply lay down a grid of lights and use a simple series of switches to turn on the lights in order to emulate the path of a magic missile. Lighting effects, easy peasy, lamps and shades on lamps, candles and crepe paper and wire. Stinking cloud animation? Simple, clear plexiglass bowl/box, some dry ice and an LED. Or hell, how about some cotton with food coloring?
You don't realize the lengths we used to go to back in the day. Line of sight? A simple piece of string. Animating magic missile with no electronics? Sure, how about an extended tape measure with a drop of white out? Yeah, I absolutely can and have emulated spell effects and animations on my at home table top game.
Lastly, this clause opens you up to other lawsuits that you haven't foreseen. First you're attempting to describe the difference of a VTT and a video game by use of animation. By that definition, any animated film is, by default, a video game. Second, you fail to account for text based video games, and third, that's not the legal definition of a video game. By your definition, and I strongly encourage computer animators to do this, animators could copywrite the context of their animations and demand that you pay them if anything looks remotely similar to what they have already done.
Next, all your language about reserving the right to change various articles in your 1.2 eitgher has to go outright, or detail specifically what you can and can't change in those articles. I thought you had said something about using "crystal clear language," but maybe I'm misremembering it.
Next, REMOVE the anti-class action lawsuit clause outright. That marks as if you're INTENDING to do something that could trigger that. If that's not your intent, then you don't need it. If that is your intent, then by all means leave it in.
And finally, REMOVE the requirement of waving our rights. Specifically the right to trial by jury. TO ALL, NEVER SIGN YOUR RIGHTS AWAY! Any company that requires this, is not a company worth doing business with.
But, Hasbeen, er, Hasbro, thank you so much for all of this. I mean this without any sarcasm or snark. By what you have done with 1.1 and now 1.2, you are educating the community the importance of reading terms and conditions. This misstep of yours may have finally convince people to truly read the terms and conditions that they need to agree to prior to clicking OK. So, well played, very well played. You continue to outplay yourself.
As I've said previously, you keep challenging a community that is used to bending rules legally. To min max things in our favor. The more caveats you add to your agreement, the more loopholes we will find and exploit. The biggest mistake here is trying to say we couldn't animate things like Magic Missile at our home table top game. Not only did I demonstrate that we could, but we have.
So, in conclusion. Instead of trying to find some legalese to tip the tables to make your VTT and screw over those that came before you. Make the BEST DAMN VTT available. Make us WANT to use it, not forced to use it. As a long time DM (close to a forever DM), I'll tell you one thing that the community that has included does when they're forced into something, they refuse. And the more you try to railroad into it, the more likely you are to find that you don't have anyone to play with.
They did not know their biggest money maker for the last 6 years was not a video game.
The President did not know the name of the 2nd biggest source of their income.
They lost 1/3 to half of the company stock value in one day because they failed to understand basic economics.
They lost the trademark to their biggest board game because they got caught playing fast and loose with ethics and the law in Europe. A trademark they have had for decades.
I could go on but its way past obvious that there is something going on with the HASBRO board.
Then there are the events of the last two weeks and today. Losing over 40 thousand subs in one day and hiding how to unsubscribe for the rest of that day and not thinking someone would notice?
I am not a friend of HASBRO even though I welcomed their taking over at first. I made a mistake there.
I have tried to point out there can be actions without deliberate malice by them because they are not gamers, just practitioners of capitalism who never take the long game choice.
On the other hand, I could not fail to notice some accounts in these forums that seem odd in their postings.
I am not talking about posts defending WOTC or Hasbro but the way it is occurring and some of the reasoning.
I have noticed posts disappearing but never any supporting WOTC or Hasbro and now have to wonder if that is the only thing occurring here in the forums.
For the record I have no plans to disappear from the forums so if I do not reply to anything it's not me just lurking but something else.
There is a review of the "Draft 1.2 OGL and TTR Policy" that was blogged by an IP lawyer who is invested in this industry. It's worth a read as it provides good insight to the "draft" shenanigans Hasbro is still trying to pull from a legal perspective.
VTT policy is garbage. Basically kills Foundry VTT.
WOTC should also not be able to be the one that decides what's "harmful." Because to them any competition could be considered "harmful." And given their recent actions I don't trust them to actually use that policy right.
VTT policy is garbage. Basically kills Foundry VTT.
WOTC should also not be able to be the one that decides what's "harmful." Because to them any competition could be considered "harmful." And given their recent actions I don't trust them to actually use that policy right.
From Foundry's website, it looks like they can use everything in the 5e rule books (including bits copyright law would likely cover) and are saying they can do so without paying one cent to Hasbro, because 1.0? If that is the case, how is that fair? It implies no one need to buy WotC's game from WotC at all. They can buy it all from the Foundry instead without paying the actual creators a single cent.
If so, how in bloody blazes is that fair at all?
It would entirely be based on what and how much was borrowed from WotC material.
And that is a case for the courts. IF WotC does not take them to court then even they do not think they could win.
VTT policy is garbage. Basically kills Foundry VTT.
WOTC should also not be able to be the one that decides what's "harmful." Because to them any competition could be considered "harmful." And given their recent actions I don't trust them to actually use that policy right.
From Foundry's website, it looks like they can use everything in the 5e rule books (including bits copyright law would likely cover) and are saying they can do so without paying one cent to Hasbro, because 1.0? If that is the case, how is that fair? It implies no one need to buy WotC's game from WotC at all. They can buy it all from the Foundry instead without paying the actual creators a single cent.
If so, how in bloody blazes is that fair at all?
It would entirely be based on what and how much was borrowed from WotC material.
And that is a case for the courts. IF WotC does not take them to court then even they do not think they could win.
I asked about fairness, not about legality. There is a difference. If 1.0 says people can use as much of the IP as they want in their own productions, with nothing going back to the creator, why should WotC stick with that? What is the moral argument for them doing so?
Because they promised that license was for life. That it was perpetual. Changing a perpetual agreement is highly unethical. And possibly it is illegal.
Because they promised that license was for life. That it was perpetual. Changing a perpetual agreement is highly unethical. And possibly it is illegal.
So, indentured servitude is completely moral then? And anyone in such a contract wanting out of it is the unethical one?
The nature of the perpetual agreement is completely irrelevant, only the fact it is perpetual matters?
Isn't that a bit hyperbolic? The example seems a bit over the top. Are you implying that WotC is now a slave to 20 year old agreement IT made with the community?
Because they promised that license was for life. That it was perpetual. Changing a perpetual agreement is highly unethical. And possibly it is illegal.
So, indentured servitude is completely moral then? And anyone in such a contract wanting out of it is the unethical one?
The nature of the perpetual agreement is completely irrelevant, only the fact it is perpetual matters?
Are we talking about an indentured servitude contract? I thought we were talking about a license agreement, which is to publish products covered by it. And that license was perpetual and WoTC wants to revoke it.
All that indentured servitude nonsense is straw men.
Because they promised that license was for life. That it was perpetual. Changing a perpetual agreement is highly unethical. And possibly it is illegal.
So, indentured servitude is completely moral then? And anyone in such a contract wanting out of it is the unethical one?
The nature of the perpetual agreement is completely irrelevant, only the fact it is perpetual matters?
There is a certain irony to your invoking indentured servitude for comparison provided Wizards' attitudes on what is or is not hateful are informed by a mob that have little hesitation minimizing the brutality endured by particularly Irish women under indentured servitude because they see so much as mentioning the subject as somehow making excuses for the Atlantic slave trade.
Yes, it was horrific. However, the suggestion is that everyone else can and should be able to use the products of Wizard's labour absolutely free with no benefit back to Wizards. In fact, they should be allowed to openly compete with Wizards using anything and everything Wizards creates. And note, we are not talking about new original or sufficiently transformative works. Those would not normally be subject to Wizards' copyrights.
The analogy stands. And Irish men were subjected to it too, used as forced labour or forced to fight as soldiers. So were Welsh and, well anyone else they decided deplorable.
Uh no. OGL 1.0a does not allow you to use any WoTC IP. It doesn't let you use anything they create. Not even everything related to D&D. That is just false.
It is the second fallacy that I read to you in this debate. Please, let's try to debate seriously.
Consider Flee Mortals by MCDM. They are creating a unique monster manual with all new monsters and monster variants. They are doing all the work, art, writing, design, publishing etc.. Its for 5th edition D&D. Why should Wizards of the Coast get any money from that at all? They have done absolutely nothing to contribute to that work, hell they didn't even create D&D, Gygax at TSR did that, all they did was buy the franchise and stake their claim.
To me, 3rd party publishing has absolutely nothing to do with Wizards of the Coast, so I see no reason why they should earn anything or have any rights to that work. These are community members creating content for the community. If that monster manual is better than the official WotC one, tough cookies, do better next time.
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1) Text prediction still sucks
2) They've lied before and used weasel words in your link. Any AI development would have been farmed out to a development company that has AI as a core competency. That would mean that WotC was literally not working on it. Somebody else would be working on it for them.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people independently working on it, it's the kind of thing I can imagine people considering an interesting challenge.
Exactly. Why would we believe anything WotC says about this at this point?
I just wanted to address the comment, "Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a." in the update.
The past tense language of this will make people only read: "We are still planning on revoking 1.0a which means you cannot ever publish anything new using 1.0a again." If that is the intention I will tell you this: Nobody in the community is going to accept that. All this can be solved by adding "irrevocable" to Section 4 of the OGL 1.0a, calling it 1.0b, and then moving forward with an OGL 2.0. The old licenses need to continue to exist in their respective spheres for the health of the product.
Nobody at Wizards of the Coast is working on it. But talking to OpenAI about a license, well, wanna bet that's happened?
So your striking evidence of wide scale incompetence is… them getting a few terms wrong?
It establishes a pattern of them not particularly caring about or understanding their products, what they are, and who buys them.
Them being the people in charge, making strategic decisions, and sailing straight into a metaphorical hurricane.
It’s a bit of a leap to go from misspeaking to the kind of abject poor decision making being purported here
It's not impossible, but I'd consider it low probability.
I fully believe that AI game masters (in a broad sense) will come, but they'll come from a video game company, not Hasbro, and they're not super close.
I mean, if you don't want to take Krispy's word for it, you can always look at what WotC want to do with the OGL for proof of their abject poor decision making. Krispy isn't pulling this out of their ass. It's not just one bad thing. It's a pattern of behavior that is clearly demonstrated in their words and actions, as has been the case since at least the time Hasbro purchased thr company, and in all honesty since before then as well.
It's not a leap in logic at all. It's common sense. It's correctly identifying that a major corporation is out for itself and its investors, and is willing to screw over its customers in the process; a corporation of the kind WotC claimed to not be working in the interests of in their response, for that matter.
This is part and parcel of living in a capitalist society, and it's certainly not limited to just WotC. When a corporation tells you it has its customers' best interests as its main priority, that corporation is lying to you, no exceptions.
And Krispy clearly is not more concerned with the CEO misspeaking than they are about WotC's poor business practices. They pointed out - correctly - that this is an indication that Hasbro's CEO has not made any attempt at understanding the product and service she's now advising business practices for.
Hasbro,
You just can't get it right. You can't listen or understand the community can you? You've dug in and won't back down, I'm done. TSR was able to do what they did for so long because we didn't have a choice, there wasn't the electronic tech that we have now. But, the world changes and moves forward. You want to control the VTT environment? Make the best VTT with the best features and easiest use to interface. But, preventing the animations because it becomes a video game? Yeah, no. First off, you didn't come up with the idea of animations for VTTs. You didn't come up with animations for video games. Secondly, even if you do manage to win this, I will simply animate spell effects using lasers, explosions, clouds, etc. Things that are either uncopyrightable or things to emulate the animations of the spells (but not an animation FOR spells). Oh, I can't do that because it's not representative of what I could do at a table? Want to bet? Magic Missile, analog animation would simply be a string of LED lights laid down between miniatures and activated when someone casts magic missile. Hell, all I need is a little bit of electrical know how (which, btw, I have) and ingenuity. Simply lay down a grid of lights and use a simple series of switches to turn on the lights in order to emulate the path of a magic missile. Lighting effects, easy peasy, lamps and shades on lamps, candles and crepe paper and wire. Stinking cloud animation? Simple, clear plexiglass bowl/box, some dry ice and an LED. Or hell, how about some cotton with food coloring?
You don't realize the lengths we used to go to back in the day. Line of sight? A simple piece of string. Animating magic missile with no electronics? Sure, how about an extended tape measure with a drop of white out? Yeah, I absolutely can and have emulated spell effects and animations on my at home table top game.
Lastly, this clause opens you up to other lawsuits that you haven't foreseen. First you're attempting to describe the difference of a VTT and a video game by use of animation. By that definition, any animated film is, by default, a video game. Second, you fail to account for text based video games, and third, that's not the legal definition of a video game. By your definition, and I strongly encourage computer animators to do this, animators could copywrite the context of their animations and demand that you pay them if anything looks remotely similar to what they have already done.
Next, all your language about reserving the right to change various articles in your 1.2 eitgher has to go outright, or detail specifically what you can and can't change in those articles. I thought you had said something about using "crystal clear language," but maybe I'm misremembering it.
Next, REMOVE the anti-class action lawsuit clause outright. That marks as if you're INTENDING to do something that could trigger that. If that's not your intent, then you don't need it. If that is your intent, then by all means leave it in.
And finally, REMOVE the requirement of waving our rights. Specifically the right to trial by jury. TO ALL, NEVER SIGN YOUR RIGHTS AWAY! Any company that requires this, is not a company worth doing business with.
But, Hasbeen, er, Hasbro, thank you so much for all of this. I mean this without any sarcasm or snark. By what you have done with 1.1 and now 1.2, you are educating the community the importance of reading terms and conditions. This misstep of yours may have finally convince people to truly read the terms and conditions that they need to agree to prior to clicking OK. So, well played, very well played. You continue to outplay yourself.
As I've said previously, you keep challenging a community that is used to bending rules legally. To min max things in our favor. The more caveats you add to your agreement, the more loopholes we will find and exploit. The biggest mistake here is trying to say we couldn't animate things like Magic Missile at our home table top game. Not only did I demonstrate that we could, but we have.
So, in conclusion. Instead of trying to find some legalese to tip the tables to make your VTT and screw over those that came before you. Make the BEST DAMN VTT available. Make us WANT to use it, not forced to use it. As a long time DM (close to a forever DM), I'll tell you one thing that the community that has included does when they're forced into something, they refuse. And the more you try to railroad into it, the more likely you are to find that you don't have anyone to play with.
They did not know their biggest money maker for the last 6 years was not a video game.
The President did not know the name of the 2nd biggest source of their income.
They lost 1/3 to half of the company stock value in one day because they failed to understand basic economics.
They lost the trademark to their biggest board game because they got caught playing fast and loose with ethics and the law in Europe. A trademark they have had for decades.
I could go on but its way past obvious that there is something going on with the HASBRO board.
Then there are the events of the last two weeks and today. Losing over 40 thousand subs in one day and hiding how to unsubscribe for the rest of that day and not thinking someone would notice?
I am not a friend of HASBRO even though I welcomed their taking over at first. I made a mistake there.
I have tried to point out there can be actions without deliberate malice by them because they are not gamers, just practitioners of capitalism who never take the long game choice.
On the other hand, I could not fail to notice some accounts in these forums that seem odd in their postings.
I am not talking about posts defending WOTC or Hasbro but the way it is occurring and some of the reasoning.
I have noticed posts disappearing but never any supporting WOTC or Hasbro and now have to wonder if that is the only thing occurring here in the forums.
For the record I have no plans to disappear from the forums so if I do not reply to anything it's not me just lurking but something else.
There is a review of the "Draft 1.2 OGL and TTR Policy" that was blogged by an IP lawyer who is invested in this industry. It's worth a read as it provides good insight to the "draft" shenanigans Hasbro is still trying to pull from a legal perspective.
https://medium.com/@MyLawyerFriend/lets-take-a-minute-to-talk-about-d-d-s-updated-open-game-license-ogl-1-2-5b95fe8889b2
He also did a live review with Nerd Immersion on youtube expanding further on his blog post.
Keep the pressure on Hasbro, this is not a step forward but more of a side step trying to distract us.
VTT policy is garbage. Basically kills Foundry VTT.
WOTC should also not be able to be the one that decides what's "harmful." Because to them any competition could be considered "harmful." And given their recent actions I don't trust them to actually use that policy right.
It would entirely be based on what and how much was borrowed from WotC material.
And that is a case for the courts. IF WotC does not take them to court then even they do not think they could win.
Because they promised that license was for life. That it was perpetual.
Changing a perpetual agreement is highly unethical. And possibly it is illegal.
Isn't that a bit hyperbolic? The example seems a bit over the top. Are you implying that WotC is now a slave to 20 year old agreement IT made with the community?
Are we talking about an indentured servitude contract?
I thought we were talking about a license agreement, which is to publish products covered by it.
And that license was perpetual and WoTC wants to revoke it.
All that indentured servitude nonsense is straw men.
Uh no. OGL 1.0a does not allow you to use any WoTC IP. It doesn't let you use anything they create. Not even everything related to D&D. That is just false.
It is the second fallacy that I read to you in this debate. Please, let's try to debate seriously.
Examples are helpful.
Consider Flee Mortals by MCDM. They are creating a unique monster manual with all new monsters and monster variants. They are doing all the work, art, writing, design, publishing etc.. Its for 5th edition D&D. Why should Wizards of the Coast get any money from that at all? They have done absolutely nothing to contribute to that work, hell they didn't even create D&D, Gygax at TSR did that, all they did was buy the franchise and stake their claim.
To me, 3rd party publishing has absolutely nothing to do with Wizards of the Coast, so I see no reason why they should earn anything or have any rights to that work. These are community members creating content for the community. If that monster manual is better than the official WotC one, tough cookies, do better next time.