- De-authorizing the OGL 1.0a ??? - Royalty rates multiple times higher than industry standard ??? - Rights for them to reuse other's conent without payment ??? - Waiving the right to ever sue ??? - 30 days notice ???
You know something is a fishy business and has ill-will when: 1. They want you to not have enough time to properly look into it, or ask for professional advice (especially legal). 2. They want you to waive your right to EVER sue.
Those two are bad individually. However I know most of this might be an exaggaration at this point, but the fact that wotc won't deny any of these claims is enough for me.
Also: hiding the unsubscribe button and on beyond, the delete account feature (you have to contact support for that? What even is this shit? The middle ages?)... I mean... seriously?
Anyway, I hope it won't come to the points I mentioned above.
If you plan on sticking with D&D during this exodus, please remember that the company will have neither the desire or the motivation to reward you for your loyalty. The "desirable business model" will, in fact, be to nickel and dime the loyalists even more, since they've already proven that they will defend and support their own exploitation.
"Sticking with D&D" has nothing to do with WotC, nor Hasbro. It has everything to do with playing the game I love.
You might be okay with denying yourself the pleasure of playing a game you love, I'm not. That does not mean that WotC/Hasbro is getting any more money from me. Denying yourself fun, even when having said fun has 0 impact on the current situation, just seem stupid to me.
So do you work for WotC? Cause they way you phrase things in several of your posts is very cooperate heavy. I've been smelling something rotten in Denmark since Cynthia Williams said in that interview that D&D is "under monetized." My concern was at the time and still is that they were going to do more micro transitions towards the players than the DM. This had me concerned because for the last 2+ years I have been volunteering with the Boys and Girls club running a D&D game, using D&D beyond and paying for all of it out of my own pocket. If WotC starts over monetizing it many, if not all, of my kids will not be able to play.
While the proposed OGL does not effect me I do have problems about the language the OGL proposes. How it basically puts a strangle hold on any creator outside of WotC with restrictions, royalties (25% really!) and WotC the ability to not only cancel any content, but if they like it they can basically steal it and publish themselves without compensation to the creator. That, in my opinion, is pure greed.
Does the OGL need to change? Possibly, but not they way WotC is proposing. This OGL has the potential to do what the Satanic Panic tried to do and kill D&D. D&D has grown every year since 5e came out and is on the verge of being the biggest in the next couple of years, but that is will only be possible if people are willing to buy it. As of about an hour ago the #OpenDnD letter had almost 67,000 signatures. And enough people have canceled their DnD Beyond subscriptions to allegedly cause the site to "crash" should speak volumes to how the fan base is reacting to the proposed OGL. That many people can't be a "over reaction." The only reason I didn't cancel mine was because of the kids in Boys and Girls club.
WotC is alienating its fan base and what is going to happen is that players will just start using another platform. Pathfinder is already jumping this and will undoubtedly benefit from this along with the other companies who have already said they are coming out with their own system in response to the proposed OGL. At this point I hope WotC can repair the damage that they are doing, but enough people may just say to hell with it. Who knows? Maybe next year I'll run a Pathfinder game through the Boys and Girls club
If you plan on sticking with D&D during this exodus, please remember that the company will have neither the desire or the motivation to reward you for your loyalty. The "desirable business model" will, in fact, be to nickel and dime the loyalists even more, since they've already proven that they will defend and support their own exploitation.
"Sticking with D&D" has nothing to do with WotC, nor Hasbro. It has everything to do with playing the game I love.
You might be okay with denying yourself the pleasure of playing a game you love, I'm not. That does not mean that WotC/Hasbro is getting any more money from me. Denying yourself fun, even when having said fun has 0 impact on the current situation, just seem stupid to me.
Apologies for the misunderstanding, when I said "sticking with D&D", I meant purely as supporting the D&D brand and its owners financially. I never meant to imply that anyone has any kind of obligation to stop playing the game itself. I am personally looking into alternatives for my group, but there is no kind of moral high ground in that whatsoever.
I hope you continue to enjoy your D&D games, and that you do so without any negative impacts from WotC/Hasbro's business practices.
Looks like the D&D virtual weekend for January might be suffering from WOTC issue around the OGL. Normally on a Friday of the weekend of the event almost all the games are completely sold out. Looks like this time only about half are sold out. It's winter so you'd think the weekend would be selling out.
Looks like the D&D virtual weekend for January might be suffering from WOTC issue around the OGL. Normally on a Friday of the weekend of the event almost all the games are completely sold out. Looks like this time only about half are sold out. It's winter so you'd think the weekend would be selling out.
I especially like the part where they say, "Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected..." ALREADY is the key word here, not FUTURE, but only ALREADY...Thinking they're slick.
They tried to sneakily get away with ridiculous terms that destroy the businesses and livelihoods of creators and their community and got slapped.
Then they go silent for weeks, surfacing only to gaslight us with BS about it being a "draft" when it was a full-blown contract they were forcing people to sign within a 1-week period, or otherwise risk being sued? Disgusting.
I'm looking forward to supporting ORC and Black Flag.
The MAD Network had a thread on Twitter where they dissected the claims in the statement and pointed out the issues. Stuff like "people weren't worried about not owning their creations, they were worried about y'all using their stuff whenever you wanted regardless of what they wanted" and obviously "drafts don't include contracts that you intend for people to sign"
It's nothing but lies and gaslighting. They knew what they were doing and it was NEVER a draft. They are just straight up lying now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
Looks like the D&D virtual weekend for January might be suffering from WOTC issue around the OGL. Normally on a Friday of the weekend of the event almost all the games are completely sold out. Looks like this time only about half are sold out. It's winter so you'd think the weekend would be selling out.
Eh, even in the darkest days of 4e and the GSL, DnD never fell below being the #2 tabletop RPG in the world. If you're expecting this to kill them off, well, good luck with that.
I especially like the part where they say, "Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected..." ALREADY is the key word here, not FUTURE, but only ALREADY...Thinking their slick.
Yep, still trying to revoke a license that they themselves said was irrevocable.
Oh, and also there's no mention of them rethinking the "we can update the license to anything we want with only 30 days notice" that many complained about, especially after the breach of 23 years of trust. So it's pretty likely they are still planning on including that provision still.
On top of all that they just sent out a statement backtracking on a few things whilst not fully addressing our concerns...but mostly, they are GASLIGHTING us by lying to our faces about their intent when we know their intent both from leaked content, internal and external statements, and the fact that what they claim to have as goals would not necessitate their extreme measures.
Further, their statement that the ogl was not created to boost competition was a flat out lie. The intention has been publicly stated both by the previous FAQs and the people who created it. They are lying. Flat out Lying. The point of the OGL was to grow the hobby, bc growing the hobby increased the sales of DND even when that hobby boosted competitors. I was playing pathfinder for years, then, when 5e came out I bought the books. My friends didn't want to try it. Then my friend wanted to run it and bought an official 5e adventure to play via vtt.
For them to do wrong is bad. For them to gaslight me to my face is Infuriating!
dnd is dead to me barring a fully open ogl
Too bad, the new vtt looked cool. but f that. I'll just wait til Paizo has an equally pretty one.
"Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we."
Who are "those people?" WotC--you do understand that "those people" are us, your consumer base, yes? Like, the overwhelming part of your revenue, yes? The ones from whom you get money, yes? I hope you are aware that the best and fastest way to create an "obstacle" to your money is to insult and alienate your customers. You won nothing.
Looks like the D&D virtual weekend for January might be suffering from WOTC issue around the OGL. Normally on a Friday of the weekend of the event almost all the games are completely sold out. Looks like this time only about half are sold out. It's winter so you'd think the weekend would be selling out.
Eh, even in the darkest days of 4e and the GSL, DnD never fell below being the #2 tabletop RPG in the world. If you're expecting this to kill them off, well, good luck with that.
Oh, you mean while OGL1.0a was still authorized, and people just ignored the GSL. This is closer to what TSR tried; remember TSR.
I am afraid the damage has already been done where I am concerned. Their statement they made today would have been better received had they just been honest and said, "We miscalculated and let our inner dragons lead us down a path we shouldn't have." Instead, they insult everyone's intelligence by trying to make false statements that can quickly and easily be verified by those effected by this non-sense (third party publishers).
I signed up for a Demiplane account this morning and started looking through the Pathfinder Primer offered for free. My plan is to complete the campaign that I am currently part of and then cancelling my membership here. I would do it now, but everyone is dependent on my sharing the books to not be stuck with the basic class options. However, at this point I am pretty sure that I won't be purchasing anymore D&D content for the foreseeable future; and I really sort of regret having just purchased a book just prior to this master class lesson in "How to Alienate Your Customers and Partners" happening.
Funny thing is that I would have never looked at Pathfinder if not for the complete and total idiocy that happened in the last month. Somehow I don't think I am the only one in that category. They have some interesting ideas, especially when it comes to character creation and critical rolls. I am not looking forward to the extra complexity, but I am sure we will all adjust as we have in the past for other systems.
"When truth presents itself, the wise person see the light, takes it in, and makes adjustments. The fool tries to adjust the truth so he does not have to adjust to it." ~ Henry Cloud #ORC #OpenDND
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
- De-authorizing the OGL 1.0a ???
- Royalty rates multiple times higher than industry standard ???
- Rights for them to reuse other's conent without payment ???
- Waiving the right to ever sue ???
- 30 days notice ???
You know something is a fishy business and has ill-will when:
1. They want you to not have enough time to properly look into it, or ask for professional advice (especially legal).
2. They want you to waive your right to EVER sue.
Those two are bad individually. However I know most of this might be an exaggaration at this point, but the fact that wotc won't deny any of these claims is enough for me.
Also: hiding the unsubscribe button and on beyond, the delete account feature (you have to contact support for that? What even is this shit? The middle ages?)... I mean... seriously?
Anyway, I hope it won't come to the points I mentioned above.
Have fun people!
"Sticking with D&D" has nothing to do with WotC, nor Hasbro. It has everything to do with playing the game I love.
You might be okay with denying yourself the pleasure of playing a game you love, I'm not. That does not mean that WotC/Hasbro is getting any more money from me. Denying yourself fun, even when having said fun has 0 impact on the current situation, just seem stupid to me.
even the Gardian newspaper has picked this up now, took them a while mind ;) - ‘People are leaving the game’: Dungeons & Dragons fans revolt against new restrictions
So do you work for WotC? Cause they way you phrase things in several of your posts is very cooperate heavy. I've been smelling something rotten in Denmark since Cynthia Williams said in that interview that D&D is "under monetized." My concern was at the time and still is that they were going to do more micro transitions towards the players than the DM. This had me concerned because for the last 2+ years I have been volunteering with the Boys and Girls club running a D&D game, using D&D beyond and paying for all of it out of my own pocket. If WotC starts over monetizing it many, if not all, of my kids will not be able to play.
While the proposed OGL does not effect me I do have problems about the language the OGL proposes. How it basically puts a strangle hold on any creator outside of WotC with restrictions, royalties (25% really!) and WotC the ability to not only cancel any content, but if they like it they can basically steal it and publish themselves without compensation to the creator. That, in my opinion, is pure greed.
Does the OGL need to change? Possibly, but not they way WotC is proposing. This OGL has the potential to do what the Satanic Panic tried to do and kill D&D. D&D has grown every year since 5e came out and is on the verge of being the biggest in the next couple of years, but that is will only be possible if people are willing to buy it. As of about an hour ago the #OpenDnD letter had almost 67,000 signatures. And enough people have canceled their DnD Beyond subscriptions to allegedly cause the site to "crash" should speak volumes to how the fan base is reacting to the proposed OGL. That many people can't be a "over reaction." The only reason I didn't cancel mine was because of the kids in Boys and Girls club.
WotC is alienating its fan base and what is going to happen is that players will just start using another platform. Pathfinder is already jumping this and will undoubtedly benefit from this along with the other companies who have already said they are coming out with their own system in response to the proposed OGL. At this point I hope WotC can repair the damage that they are doing, but enough people may just say to hell with it. Who knows? Maybe next year I'll run a Pathfinder game through the Boys and Girls club
Apologies for the misunderstanding, when I said "sticking with D&D", I meant purely as supporting the D&D brand and its owners financially. I never meant to imply that anyone has any kind of obligation to stop playing the game itself. I am personally looking into alternatives for my group, but there is no kind of moral high ground in that whatsoever.
I hope you continue to enjoy your D&D games, and that you do so without any negative impacts from WotC/Hasbro's business practices.
Looks like the D&D virtual weekend for January might be suffering from WOTC issue around the OGL. Normally on a Friday of the weekend of the event almost all the games are completely sold out. Looks like this time only about half are sold out. It's winter so you'd think the weekend would be selling out.
https://yawningportal.dnd.wizards.com/virtual-dd-weekends-january-2023/
That's Half too many.
Taking my toys and going home.
Just saw the new update on the main page.
As a reminder to everyone, especially the folks who forced the person to write that bullshit.
"Drafts" my ass. You're not fooling any of us. #ORC
If they were looking for feedback, they would not have gone completely radio silent for so long. The latest post is crap.
I especially like the part where they say, "Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected..." ALREADY is the key word here, not FUTURE, but only ALREADY...Thinking they're slick.
Cancelled Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
They tried to sneakily get away with ridiculous terms that destroy the businesses and livelihoods of creators and their community and got slapped.
Then they go silent for weeks, surfacing only to gaslight us with BS about it being a "draft" when it was a full-blown contract they were forcing people to sign within a 1-week period, or otherwise risk being sued? Disgusting.
I'm looking forward to supporting ORC and Black Flag.
Cancelled Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
Add your name to the #OpenDnD Letter to Wotc/Hasbro: https://www.opendnd.games/
The MAD Network had a thread on Twitter where they dissected the claims in the statement and pointed out the issues. Stuff like "people weren't worried about not owning their creations, they were worried about y'all using their stuff whenever you wanted regardless of what they wanted" and obviously "drafts don't include contracts that you intend for people to sign"
It's nothing but lies and gaslighting. They knew what they were doing and it was NEVER a draft. They are just straight up lying now.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
Eh, even in the darkest days of 4e and the GSL, DnD never fell below being the #2 tabletop RPG in the world. If you're expecting this to kill them off, well, good luck with that.
Yep, still trying to revoke a license that they themselves said was irrevocable.
Oh, and also there's no mention of them rethinking the "we can update the license to anything we want with only 30 days notice" that many complained about, especially after the breach of 23 years of trust. So it's pretty likely they are still planning on including that provision still.
On top of all that they just sent out a statement backtracking on a few things whilst not fully addressing our concerns...but mostly, they are GASLIGHTING us by lying to our faces about their intent when we know their intent both from leaked content, internal and external statements, and the fact that what they claim to have as goals would not necessitate their extreme measures.
Further, their statement that the ogl was not created to boost competition was a flat out lie. The intention has been publicly stated both by the previous FAQs and the people who created it. They are lying. Flat out Lying. The point of the OGL was to grow the hobby, bc growing the hobby increased the sales of DND even when that hobby boosted competitors. I was playing pathfinder for years, then, when 5e came out I bought the books. My friends didn't want to try it. Then my friend wanted to run it and bought an official 5e adventure to play via vtt.
For them to do wrong is bad. For them to gaslight me to my face is Infuriating!
dnd is dead to me barring a fully open ogl
Too bad, the new vtt looked cool. but f that. I'll just wait til Paizo has an equally pretty one.
Also:
"Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we."
Who are "those people?" WotC--you do understand that "those people" are us, your consumer base, yes? Like, the overwhelming part of your revenue, yes? The ones from whom you get money, yes? I hope you are aware that the best and fastest way to create an "obstacle" to your money is to insult and alienate your customers. You won nothing.
Oh, you mean while OGL1.0a was still authorized, and people just ignored the GSL. This is closer to what TSR tried; remember TSR.
I am afraid the damage has already been done where I am concerned. Their statement they made today would have been better received had they just been honest and said, "We miscalculated and let our inner dragons lead us down a path we shouldn't have." Instead, they insult everyone's intelligence by trying to make false statements that can quickly and easily be verified by those effected by this non-sense (third party publishers).
I signed up for a Demiplane account this morning and started looking through the Pathfinder Primer offered for free. My plan is to complete the campaign that I am currently part of and then cancelling my membership here. I would do it now, but everyone is dependent on my sharing the books to not be stuck with the basic class options. However, at this point I am pretty sure that I won't be purchasing anymore D&D content for the foreseeable future; and I really sort of regret having just purchased a book just prior to this master class lesson in "How to Alienate Your Customers and Partners" happening.
Funny thing is that I would have never looked at Pathfinder if not for the complete and total idiocy that happened in the last month. Somehow I don't think I am the only one in that category. They have some interesting ideas, especially when it comes to character creation and critical rolls. I am not looking forward to the extra complexity, but I am sure we will all adjust as we have in the past for other systems.
"When truth presents itself, the wise person see the light, takes it in, and makes adjustments. The fool tries to adjust the truth so he does not have to adjust to it." ~ Henry Cloud #ORC #OpenDND