It's funny, really. They got something like 80% market share thanks to opening up the system to the creativity of its users and then thought "I know how we'll make more money - reverse the thing that got us all this money!"
The only reason I'm still here is because it's gonna take quite a bit to print off sheets and spell cards and such for the multiyear 5e campaign I'm running. If they reverse course, maybe I stay, but I'm certainly not spending the hundreds I've spent on these products anymore and I'm already reading Pathfinder stuff to see how easy the transition will be to make either in-flight or after this campaign
Pretty incredibly stupid to build a community around the creativity and mechanical savvy of your customers and then expect them to be unable to find or invent entirely new systems if you push them to
Pretty incredibly stupid to build a community around the creativity and mechanical savvy of your customers and then expect them to be unable to find or invent entirely new systems if you push them to
The longer this goes on - especially with no official word from Hasbro/WOTC - the more incredulous I am that they could actually be this stupid. Not just because it's literally playing out a near note-for-note repeat of the past for the same company, but because it so aggressively craps all over EVERYTHING that helped make the current version a huge success.
It felt like 6E/OneD&D's success was inevitable for a while: they were retaining the core chassis of the system that was widely loved and used, they were making strategic changes and pivots to help reflect the diversity and desires of the gamers, they were even soliciting feedback from tens of thousands of users to help steer the ship.
And now...*pantomimes blowing dandelion fluff*...it's all gone. 20+ years of trust and goodwill, and almost 9 years of unprecedented success, all done in by myopic greed with blinders on.
My prediction is that they'll just keep a low profile and deal with the lower revenue stream until they are able to replace the the old players with newer ones who are willing to pay for microtransactions and other various forms of monetization.
So in other words, D&D won't die, they'll just find a new player base who have no memory of how the game used to be.
Honestly I'm excited to try Pathfinder, I hope that it has more flexibility and fewer limitations than 5e; it was a great way to learn the concept of TTRPG's and all but I often feel a little bit constricted by it's rules and limitations.
D&D will survive. Maybe with another company, maybe with WotC, but it'll survive. Its a part of culture. When the layman thinks of a TTRPG, its D&D that comes to mind. Until they're aware of it, if you sit them down at a Pathfinder game, they'll think its D&D at first and have to be corrected.
I wouldn't be surprised if D&D gets rebranded to some other wacky name, but it'll still be thought of as D&D. That's the biggest thing Hasbro owns with the IP on D&D. Its legacy and its permanence in regular culture.
That's the thing. DnD as a nebulous genre/system is mainstream. But that does not mean something like Pathfinder wouldn't become vastly more popular. It just means everyone would reference pathfinder as DnD (outside of core audiences). They may look at this system but in the end they would move to the superior one. Either way, a cataclysm has struck DnD as we know it, now we must watch and see how it shakes out.
on an unrelated note to anything I just today at work was referencing "that week I spent a year in Montana" ...which refers to week I quite literally spent in Kalispell and Big Fork.
Our last session of Strahd is coming up. After that we are trying out Pathfinder. I've played DnD since the 70's. But even if they change their minds now, I will not go back. I will not support this company (management, anyway). Most of their new releases are watered down junk anyway.
Paizo is probably overjoyed at this news cycle. They have already gotten some of my money since, as I just bought the core rulebook.
I predict that within a year, Paizo, MCDM, CR and Kobald Press will have the top shares of the market of TTRPG products, and WotC/Hasbro will have so little market share that they will be sold off to the highest bidder and disappear for a decade.
lol maybe Elon will buy it and return it to it's former glory.
You might want to do Pathfinder and not Pathfinder 2, due to ease of use.
If you want an easier game like 5E evolution to the game compared to Pathfinder, I suggest Dungeon Crawl Classics, it mostly an expanded version of D&D Basic, more random for character creating, character funnel, critical hit/fumble and spell rolls for effects, corruption, a lot of very good modules, and they have the dice chain concept.
I predict D&D movie: Honor among Thieves is going to lose money due the OGL controversy. WotC hasn't been on my good list for quite some time and I was willing to give the movie a try if the ratings are good, but now, I'm noping out until I hear something from WotC on OGL.
The Average player wont care, most people who think ttrpg think D&D, when TTRPG fans talk to non rpg fans about what they do, its always easier to say "I play D&D" than to describe what they really play.
Because of this D&D will survive, the VTT / DDB integration with it is going to be easy for new players, a lot of people play online now because its harder to find games in person. The brand name alone carrys a lot of weight. the movie will attract new audiences (just like Stranger things did) and those people wont care about OGL stuff, they will see the flashy cool VTT and see they can buy a book and a map and play with friends by sharing with a subscription.
D&D WILL take a hit, but that hit wont be large as everyone thinks. On top of this this new wave of all these content creators making their own systems are now just creating competition for themselves, they will eat each other alive ironically fighting for 3rd place. they THINK they are D&D's competitor but they are each others competitors first, and until they become the top dog in that space then they fight the champion ... D&D, but until then they are all in a battle royal vs each other.
And since D&D's name is so big and the algorithms on sites like you tube and twitch favor bigger well known names, making videos for D&D will still be more profitable than making ones for more niche systems. because there is still going to be a TON of new players and people who still play D&D because they don't log onto reddit and dont care.
TL;DR: Wizards and D&D too big a name to die, 3rd partys all creating new systems are just fighting each other, Movie brings in new players, YouTube algorithms benefit people making content for the largest most well known game not a niche game. D&D isn't going to dissapear and will still be #1 in ttrpg space.
With one fell swoop papi Hasbro and WoTC have bruned the comunity to the ground. If Hasbro complained about losing 40% profits the last years, and demanded WOTC increase revnue somehow and we all know they are the true heads behind the OGL 1..... Well I hope they will not be surprised to see their profits go even further down after the comunity collectively told them **** you.
Just to be clear, I predict that they will never return this good faith ever again. It's the second time they tried to **** the comunity over and you know the saying "Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice....okai you're now officialy that guy"
You might want to do Pathfinder and not Pathfinder 2, due to ease of use.
If you want an easier game like 5E evolution to the game compared to Pathfinder, I suggest Dungeon Crawl Classics, it mostly an expanded version of D&D Basic, more random for character creating, character funnel, critical hit/fumble and spell rolls for effects, corruption, a lot of very good modules, and they have the dice chain concept.
We're looking forward to more complexity. I've felt that 5e was too watered down. I've been playing off and on since the late 70s, including ADD.
It's funny, really. They got something like 80% market share thanks to opening up the system to the creativity of its users and then thought "I know how we'll make more money - reverse the thing that got us all this money!"
The only reason I'm still here is because it's gonna take quite a bit to print off sheets and spell cards and such for the multiyear 5e campaign I'm running. If they reverse course, maybe I stay, but I'm certainly not spending the hundreds I've spent on these products anymore and I'm already reading Pathfinder stuff to see how easy the transition will be to make either in-flight or after this campaign
Pretty incredibly stupid to build a community around the creativity and mechanical savvy of your customers and then expect them to be unable to find or invent entirely new systems if you push them to
#OpenDnD
Hasbro just shot itself in the foot, it is the rise of Pathfinder all over again, good for RPG players, sad for WOTC DND.
RIP
#OPENDND
...time to spend the $1500.00 on the 2E Pathfinder Ultimate bundle
D&D Beyond Legendary Bundle Holder
Playing D&D since 1979 (The Keep on the Borderlands)
Now we know why Badeye left..
D&D Beyond Legendary Bundle Holder
Playing D&D since 1979 (The Keep on the Borderlands)
The longer this goes on - especially with no official word from Hasbro/WOTC - the more incredulous I am that they could actually be this stupid. Not just because it's literally playing out a near note-for-note repeat of the past for the same company, but because it so aggressively craps all over EVERYTHING that helped make the current version a huge success.
It felt like 6E/OneD&D's success was inevitable for a while: they were retaining the core chassis of the system that was widely loved and used, they were making strategic changes and pivots to help reflect the diversity and desires of the gamers, they were even soliciting feedback from tens of thousands of users to help steer the ship.
And now...*pantomimes blowing dandelion fluff*...it's all gone. 20+ years of trust and goodwill, and almost 9 years of unprecedented success, all done in by myopic greed with blinders on.
My prediction is that they'll just keep a low profile and deal with the lower revenue stream until they are able to replace the the old players with newer ones who are willing to pay for microtransactions and other various forms of monetization.
So in other words, D&D won't die, they'll just find a new player base who have no memory of how the game used to be.
Honestly I'm excited to try Pathfinder, I hope that it has more flexibility and fewer limitations than 5e; it was a great way to learn the concept of TTRPG's and all but I often feel a little bit constricted by it's rules and limitations.
I predict WOTC will apologize for failing to hold a session zero before starting an evil campaign.
on an unrelated note to anything I just today at work was referencing "that week I spent a year in Montana" ...which refers to week I quite literally spent in Kalispell and Big Fork.
You might want to do Pathfinder and not Pathfinder 2, due to ease of use.
If you want an easier game like 5E evolution to the game compared to Pathfinder, I suggest Dungeon Crawl Classics, it mostly an expanded version of D&D Basic, more random for character creating, character funnel, critical hit/fumble and spell rolls for effects, corruption, a lot of very good modules, and they have the dice chain concept.
D&D movie: Honor among Thieves is a 90 min documentary about the Hasbro/Wotc OGL 1.1 meltdown.
I predict D&D movie: Honor among Thieves is going to lose money due the OGL controversy. WotC hasn't been on my good list for quite some time and I was willing to give the movie a try if the ratings are good, but now, I'm noping out until I hear something from WotC on OGL.
They are about to release a feature film. I think you guys might have an overly optimistic appraisal of the situation.
The Average player wont care, most people who think ttrpg think D&D, when TTRPG fans talk to non rpg fans about what they do, its always easier to say "I play D&D" than to describe what they really play.
Because of this D&D will survive, the VTT / DDB integration with it is going to be easy for new players, a lot of people play online now because its harder to find games in person. The brand name alone carrys a lot of weight. the movie will attract new audiences (just like Stranger things did) and those people wont care about OGL stuff, they will see the flashy cool VTT and see they can buy a book and a map and play with friends by sharing with a subscription.
D&D WILL take a hit, but that hit wont be large as everyone thinks. On top of this this new wave of all these content creators making their own systems are now just creating competition for themselves, they will eat each other alive ironically fighting for 3rd place. they THINK they are D&D's competitor but they are each others competitors first, and until they become the top dog in that space then they fight the champion ... D&D, but until then they are all in a battle royal vs each other.
And since D&D's name is so big and the algorithms on sites like you tube and twitch favor bigger well known names, making videos for D&D will still be more profitable than making ones for more niche systems. because there is still going to be a TON of new players and people who still play D&D because they don't log onto reddit and dont care.
TL;DR: Wizards and D&D too big a name to die, 3rd partys all creating new systems are just fighting each other, Movie brings in new players, YouTube algorithms benefit people making content for the largest most well known game not a niche game. D&D isn't going to dissapear and will still be #1 in ttrpg space.
It's dead Jim.
With one fell swoop papi Hasbro and WoTC have bruned the comunity to the ground. If Hasbro complained about losing 40% profits the last years, and demanded WOTC increase revnue somehow and we all know they are the true heads behind the OGL 1..... Well I hope they will not be surprised to see their profits go even further down after the comunity collectively told them **** you.
Just to be clear, I predict that they will never return this good faith ever again. It's the second time they tried to **** the comunity over and you know the saying "Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice....okai you're now officialy that guy"
We were already TPKd at level 5, had to continue with all new characters.
We're looking forward to more complexity. I've felt that 5e was too watered down. I've been playing off and on since the late 70s, including ADD.