So I googled "video game define" and was presented with a definition: "a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a monitor or other display." That's pretty broad. You can play two-player video games of Chess and multiplayer video games of Monopoly. When playing them via video, they still get to be defined as video games. Games develop. R2-D2 can play Chewbacca in a Dejarik game of "Star Wars holochess" and the only difference there might have been, if they had played remotely, is R2 might not have been as readily persuaded to "let the wookie win". (Back down to earth, definitions can blur further when we consider that the Arcane Arcade crew often play tabletop by placing their minis on a large video monitor table). And who'd care if the Star Wars game included a Dejarik display of its equivalent of magic missile or if the game of Chess you were playing had animated qualities like if you were playing Harry Potter? It wouldn't matter. It would still be the same game you were playing. The difference would be that you'd be doing it on something like a computer via something like video.
Google is behind the times, then. (Not surprising.)
The interface isn't the defining feature. The content is. Two of the many factors involve the purpose of the application. Does the application itself provide a goal in a game? Does the application create that goal?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
That's absurd. A videogame is defined by its mechanics, where you can interact with elements in the game and some AIs will determine your consecuences, not a human, a DM! What you are proposing is the digital version of anything... That difference between VTTs and videogame is just that the first if human-driven, and the other is AI driven.
The term "video game" doesn't have a precise legal definition. Any dictionary can be consulted and they will have slightly different wording.
e.g. Merriam-Webster defines it as "an electronic game in which players control images on a video screen"
That is the simplest definition. I don't know why some people think that a video game has to involve some sort of computer-controlled AI. Is there a different published definition which includes this concept?
After all, the original "Puck"(?) arcade game didn't have much AI - unless you consider the simple physics of the bouncing ball as AI.
For those who think that it's about whether an AI or human controls the reactions (as represented by, but certainly not the only example of such thinking; "A videogame is defined by its mechanics, where you can interact with elements in the game and some AIs will determine your consecuences, not a human"), I'm going to go play my Fortnite VTT.
In a less tongue-in-cheek note, people are finding it difficult to come up with a watertight method of distinguishing between videogames and VTTs because there is no distinction; a VTT is a video game. The distinction isn't really in what it is, but in how you use it. A VTT is a visual representations of a story being told by the DM in collaboration with the players, a more traditional video game is either has no DM or is the DM. You could, in theory, use Elder Scrolls as a VTT - if you don't mind a bit of bodging and only the assets already in game.
WotC wants to distinguish between VTTs,.which they want to generally want to use the OGL, and traditional video games like Baldur's Gate, which they want to use a custom licence. Any definition they use will be arbitrary though, because the distinction is arbitrary.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
This is exactly where the issue lies and why WotC is trying to lay out guidelines for VTT separate from video games. Of ALL the things the angry mobs are ranting about, I feel this attempt to effectively define a VTT and how it differs from a video game is the one they really have zero right to rant about. It would be MUCH easier to simply regulate a VTT as a video game and apply all the rules and limitations a video game has to the VTT world. The DON'T want to do that, because they realize there IS a difference. The ***** of it all is defining the difference and getting that solid, clear line between a VTT and a video game is new and needs to be hashed out from scratch. There's nothing right now that clearly distinguishes the 2 and until WotC gets this defined and clarified, there will be a LOT of discussions back and forth.
So far as their new license goes, I can see bumping the VTT bit of it to a later date, allowing a longer window for WotC and VTT creators to work together to get a firm set of guidelines to work with. Currently almost anything we try to say that would separate them can be refuted with fringe examples of video games working VERY much like a VTT. This is part of why I and many others, suggest giving feedback on what YOU see as any limits on what a VTT can do without crossing this yet-to-be determined line.
As a couple have pointed out, the current definition of video game clearly encompasses VTT, and we can all see that's narrow-minded and dumb, so it needs work. Hopefully some prominent VTT creators are more professional and open to discussing with WotC how this will work Discussions and working together will work out best for ALL involved and allegedly that line of communication is open, so please VTT creators, USE IT. Have a voice and be a part of making this new set of guidelines. Let the actial video game makers sort their own stuff and work to get yourselves put in a different grouping from them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
After all, the original "Puck"(?) arcade game didn't have much AI - unless you consider the simple physics of the bouncing ball as AI.
... er-r-rr...
That would be 'Pong' by Atari.
It was relevantly mentioned as being of the first major arcade video games which also managed to transfer into the home market.
Atari then developed the 2600 home cosole system which was supplied with the game "combat" which had strong tabletop characteristics.
However, computer games also developed with the likes of monopoly which could then be played on a screen rather than through the use of a tabletop boardgame.
The definitions of 'what a video game is' or 'are video table-tops video games?' becomes even more complex.
When coin-operated arcade games were very popular in the 1980s, there was a smaller 'table-top' styled coin-operated arcade cabinet designed specifically for personal owners.
Is that an example video table-tops?
For more useful information, I'd recommend checking out a fascinating documentary series on YouTube 'Atari Archive' narrated by Kevin Bunch.
Card games are such an epitome of tabletop games that they even have the "card table" named in their connection. Card games have also been popular among "video games" since their beginning.
You can still individually play solitaire and freecell on your computer now or, with a little looking, its easy to find options for multiplayer online games such as of bridge or poker. What are these games if not VTTs?
The more commonly used reference in books is to digital tabletops over virtual tabletops. The related Wikipedia article refers to the Digital tabletop game. The virtual bit in VTT can also typically be considered a bit of a misnomer. It typically doesn't even fit with a virtual reality setting within which your viewpoint can move around so as to view everything on the table in perspective. All you can typically do is zoom in and out and digital tabletop is the umbrella term for all such media.
Within a digital tabletop developers can surely do anything that is digitally possible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So I googled "video game define" and was presented with a definition: "a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a monitor or other display." That's pretty broad.
You can play two-player video games of Chess and multiplayer video games of Monopoly. When playing them via video, they still get to be defined as video games. Games develop. R2-D2 can play Chewbacca in a Dejarik game of "Star Wars holochess" and the only difference there might have been, if they had played remotely, is R2 might not have been as readily persuaded to "let the wookie win".
(Back down to earth, definitions can blur further when we consider that the Arcane Arcade crew often play tabletop by placing their minis on a large video monitor table).
And who'd care if the Star Wars game included a Dejarik display of its equivalent of magic missile or if the game of Chess you were playing had animated qualities like if you were playing Harry Potter? It wouldn't matter. It would still be the same game you were playing. The difference would be that you'd be doing it on something like a computer via something like video.
Google is behind the times, then. (Not surprising.)
The interface isn't the defining feature. The content is. Two of the many factors involve the purpose of the application. Does the application itself provide a goal in a game? Does the application create that goal?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
That's absurd. A videogame is defined by its mechanics, where you can interact with elements in the game and some AIs will determine your consecuences, not a human, a DM! What you are proposing is the digital version of anything... That difference between VTTs and videogame is just that the first if human-driven, and the other is AI driven.
The term "video game" doesn't have a precise legal definition. Any dictionary can be consulted and they will have slightly different wording.
e.g. Merriam-Webster defines it as "an electronic game in which players control images on a video screen"
That is the simplest definition. I don't know why some people think that a video game has to involve some sort of computer-controlled AI. Is there a different published definition which includes this concept?
After all, the original "Puck"(?) arcade game didn't have much AI - unless you consider the simple physics of the bouncing ball as AI.
You do realise that WotC are releasing surveys for the OGL, right? None of it is final.
[REDACTED]
er-r-rr...
That would be 'Pong' by Atari.
For those who think that it's about whether an AI or human controls the reactions (as represented by, but certainly not the only example of such thinking; "A videogame is defined by its mechanics, where you can interact with elements in the game and some AIs will determine your consecuences, not a human"), I'm going to go play my Fortnite VTT.
In a less tongue-in-cheek note, people are finding it difficult to come up with a watertight method of distinguishing between videogames and VTTs because there is no distinction; a VTT is a video game. The distinction isn't really in what it is, but in how you use it. A VTT is a visual representations of a story being told by the DM in collaboration with the players, a more traditional video game is either has no DM or is the DM. You could, in theory, use Elder Scrolls as a VTT - if you don't mind a bit of bodging and only the assets already in game.
WotC wants to distinguish between VTTs,.which they want to generally want to use the OGL, and traditional video games like Baldur's Gate, which they want to use a custom licence. Any definition they use will be arbitrary though, because the distinction is arbitrary.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
This is exactly where the issue lies and why WotC is trying to lay out guidelines for VTT separate from video games. Of ALL the things the angry mobs are ranting about, I feel this attempt to effectively define a VTT and how it differs from a video game is the one they really have zero right to rant about. It would be MUCH easier to simply regulate a VTT as a video game and apply all the rules and limitations a video game has to the VTT world. The DON'T want to do that, because they realize there IS a difference. The ***** of it all is defining the difference and getting that solid, clear line between a VTT and a video game is new and needs to be hashed out from scratch. There's nothing right now that clearly distinguishes the 2 and until WotC gets this defined and clarified, there will be a LOT of discussions back and forth.
So far as their new license goes, I can see bumping the VTT bit of it to a later date, allowing a longer window for WotC and VTT creators to work together to get a firm set of guidelines to work with. Currently almost anything we try to say that would separate them can be refuted with fringe examples of video games working VERY much like a VTT. This is part of why I and many others, suggest giving feedback on what YOU see as any limits on what a VTT can do without crossing this yet-to-be determined line.
As a couple have pointed out, the current definition of video game clearly encompasses VTT, and we can all see that's narrow-minded and dumb, so it needs work. Hopefully some prominent VTT creators are more professional and open to discussing with WotC how this will work Discussions and working together will work out best for ALL involved and allegedly that line of communication is open, so please VTT creators, USE IT. Have a voice and be a part of making this new set of guidelines. Let the actial video game makers sort their own stuff and work to get yourselves put in a different grouping from them.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
It was relevantly mentioned as being of the first major arcade video games which also managed to transfer into the home market.
Atari then developed the 2600 home cosole system which was supplied with the game "combat" which had strong tabletop characteristics.
However, computer games also developed with the likes of monopoly which could then be played on a screen rather than through the use of a tabletop boardgame.
>>>GergKyae
The definitions of 'what a video game is' or 'are video table-tops video games?' becomes even more complex.
When coin-operated arcade games were very popular in the 1980s, there was a smaller 'table-top' styled coin-operated arcade cabinet designed specifically for personal owners.
Is that an example video table-tops?
For more useful information, I'd recommend checking out a fascinating documentary series on YouTube 'Atari Archive' narrated by Kevin Bunch.
Card games are such an epitome of tabletop games that they even have the "card table" named in their connection. Card games have also been popular among "video games" since their beginning.
You can still individually play solitaire and freecell on your computer now or, with a little looking, its easy to find options for multiplayer online games such as of bridge or poker. What are these games if not VTTs?
The more commonly used reference in books is to digital tabletops over virtual tabletops. The related Wikipedia article refers to the Digital tabletop game. The virtual bit in VTT can also typically be considered a bit of a misnomer. It typically doesn't even fit with a virtual reality setting within which your viewpoint can move around so as to view everything on the table in perspective. All you can typically do is zoom in and out and digital tabletop is the umbrella term for all such media.
Within a digital tabletop developers can surely do anything that is digitally possible.