As per the title, that's what all this leads too. A Wizards of the Coast subscription-based service, that includes a virtual table top, micro-transactions, and achievements with digital asset rewards will never be received well. If we wanted to play an MMO, we'd play a well established, existing game. The MMO world neither supports the dynamics of meeting in person nor the mechanics of D&D. Please, for everyone's sake (yours and ours), find another legitimate way to monetize D&D that we can live with.
D&D already has an MMO with Neverwinter. A D&D MMO for 5th Edition is fine. Just not as a replacement for the actual TTRPG.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
IF the leaks to DnDShorts are accurate, yeah, they're hellbent on making D&D an MMORPG, with in-person games using *gasp* BOOKS being the exception rather than the rule. It's such a fundamental misreading of what makes the game popular - whether people are playing in person or via Discord, Skype, or a VTT - that it'd be hilarious if it were coming from someone without the power to run the game into the ground.
I hate it. I hate treating D&D like a video game. I hate the idea of taking a game that lives and breathes through the personalities of the players AND the DM and making it a generic video game. I hate that they seem really intent on making human DMs optional or a luxury.
I am perfectly fine with having D&D mmorpgs and VTTs. Not everyone likes to play pretend at a table and do math by hand. And microtransactions are a good thing. D&D Beyond has microtransaction and it is great, since you do not have to buy the whole book if you do not want to.
If Hasbro can afford to, they absolutely should try out different ways to monetize D&D. Makes absolutely no sense to throw all your eggs in one basket when you can afford to diversify a bit.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As per the title, that's what all this leads too. A Wizards of the Coast subscription-based service, that includes a virtual table top, micro-transactions, and achievements with digital asset rewards will never be received well. If we wanted to play an MMO, we'd play a well established, existing game. The MMO world neither supports the dynamics of meeting in person nor the mechanics of D&D. Please, for everyone's sake (yours and ours), find another legitimate way to monetize D&D that we can live with.
Giving your forum thread a boost & updoot because you're making a good point.
I'm not sure that's true - the title. I think DND really is an MMO, only we're playing it wrong, small groups in parallel where really, we could be playing it 'together'.
I'm not really disagreeing, clearly DND isn't WoW. But all players who play in Faerun - for example - really do populate the same world, and I can easily see how that community could be tapped for fun and profit. I mean, just as a very low key example, why does this forum not have a Faerun subforum? Or a Ravenloft, or whatever ditto? Why isn't there a campaign journal subforum?
I mean, I can answer my own questions: WoTC/Hasbro are pretty clueless.
But still. Point remains.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
But all players who play in Faerun - for example - really do populate the same world[...]
Not really. The best I can describe it is that we're in parallel dimensions (in the sci-fi use of the term, as much as it grates my sensibilities) that often have a lot of similarity. An illustrative example - in my game of TftYP, Meepo died, in BoringBard's, he survived and became a memorable part of the story. Those two versions can't be in the same world.
Most of your post works in that context of us playing in parallel dimensions, but it's not the same concept as MMO where you play alongside one another...although how an MMo could be mapped to reality I have no idea. Players do the sane event and the turns out differently each time...but that's tangential.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just watch the visualizations and expectation with the new movie, or how WotC has hidden the release of the incoming book Golden Vault (whatever It's called). They know they are destroying the game, and they don't mind at all because they are just executives in order to make profit whatever It takes.
D&D is not dead. Just because WotC is making a few bad decisions doesn't mean you can't play anymore. You can stop buying WotC products but that doesn't stop you from playing the game. D&D will always be a great game, even if you're just playing with a small group of friends on paper character sheets. WotC might be dying, but neither WotC nor D&D are dead.
But consider WoW - assuming you've been there. The world as such is the same for everyone, and instances and raids are .... also the same for everyone, but we run them in an individual manner.
In a similar vein - still not a perfect analogy - the world of Faerun is (basically) the same, but we run adventures individually. And sure, my Faerun is forever set before the Time of Troubles, for example.
But by and large, it seems to me that a platform - like an advanced VTT or DNDB could easily be a place that was alive, through WoTC and player input, with character tales, setting background, events and so on. Basically - an MMO.
I think this would be a good thing. I might even use it myself, despite all Faerun since the Time of Troubles is ... garbage. And sorry to everyone who thinks differently =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I am perfectly fine with having D&D mmorpgs and VTTs. Not everyone likes to play pretend at a table and do math by hand. And microtransactions are a good thing. D&D Beyond has microtransaction and it is great, since you do not have to buy the whole book if you do not want to.
If Hasbro can afford to, they absolutely should try out different ways to monetize D&D. Makes absolutely no sense to throw all your eggs in one basket when you can afford to diversify a bit.
Not everyone does. But anything less is no longer in the spirit of the game, in my honest opinion, and has become less D&D than other games more worthy of the name.
And it is not up to you to decide what the spirit of the game and brand is for other people. The world does not revolve solely around you. Some people like D&D as videogames, boardgames, comics, and now maybe even movies, and that is totally fine. Hell, Wizard's main focus for D&D is still freaking books, and it is not like they are abandoning books and throwing all their resources into everything else.
I like the MCU and that is what I spend my money on for that brand, but I do not care about the original comics. I do not even care about the TV shows either. I am not going to spend my money on Disney+, let alone the comics, and I will tell diehard fans and anyone else to **** off if they try to dictate how I spend my money.
D&D is an MMO though it's just there are hundreds of thousands of servers and each server has a max player count of like five. That said I'm now suddenly curious what the largest group was with everyone playing at once at the same time
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If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
As per the title, that's what all this leads too. A Wizards of the Coast subscription-based service, that includes a virtual table top, micro-transactions, and achievements with digital asset rewards will never be received well. If we wanted to play an MMO, we'd play a well established, existing game. The MMO world neither supports the dynamics of meeting in person nor the mechanics of D&D. Please, for everyone's sake (yours and ours), find another legitimate way to monetize D&D that we can live with.
D&D is also just about the book on your shelves, the groups at your table, and the style of game you run. In that regard, it's nothing like an MMO unless you make it that way. I get all the up in arms about everything but how is the experience related to the books you own and the stories you tell at your table impacted, pushed, pulled, or moved in any other direction than the way you want it?
Yeah - If I want to play an MMO I'll play an AAA MMO like Elder Scrolls Online, which is not just a quality MMO but also has a lore that blows WOTC out of the water. Single Player Bethesda blows all D&D releases out of the water as well.
Other people of course have different tastes - but the fact is that the MMO market is packed and competitive and hundreds of mediocre MMO's are launched each year.
WOTC is definitely in the mediocre category. They release stuff, but it's all "meh". All the great IP releases are from the TSR days.
Where exactly are we getting the idea that WotC is making D&D an MMO? Nothing in the OneD&D playtest indicates that to me. The goal of the plsytest is the successful release of updated core rulebooks. Is this a worry about long-term goals (like 5+ years in the future)?
Worries about the OGL I understand, but I again don't see microtransactions in the document.
Where exactly are we getting the idea that WotC is making D&D an MMO?
Cynthia Williams, CEO of WOTC flat out said publicly she wants to monetize the game more similar to current MMO's.
There is nothing inherantly evil about wanting to fully monetize your product. It's basically a legal requirement of publicly traded companies and it basically what Capitalism is all about.
Fully monetizing D&D can mean a billion things, from making movies, to MMOs, to lunch boxes and underoos. It means making more products that those who like D&D may want to buy. And in typical capitalistic fashion, the consumer will decide for themselves.... Ford does it. Apple does it. Goop does it. Hasbro, yes, also does it. Unless you are anti-capitalism then the fact that they want to monetize the game, in and of itself, is not evil.
If you have problems with how they want to monetize it then that is a different issue... But if that is your argument, you should make that argument and provide examples.
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As per the title, that's what all this leads too. A Wizards of the Coast subscription-based service, that includes a virtual table top, micro-transactions, and achievements with digital asset rewards will never be received well. If we wanted to play an MMO, we'd play a well established, existing game. The MMO world neither supports the dynamics of meeting in person nor the mechanics of D&D. Please, for everyone's sake (yours and ours), find another legitimate way to monetize D&D that we can live with.
I am an experienced player (approximately 40 years) who is always looking for a group.
D&D already has an MMO with Neverwinter. A D&D MMO for 5th Edition is fine. Just not as a replacement for the actual TTRPG.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
IF the leaks to DnDShorts are accurate, yeah, they're hellbent on making D&D an MMORPG, with in-person games using *gasp* BOOKS being the exception rather than the rule. It's such a fundamental misreading of what makes the game popular - whether people are playing in person or via Discord, Skype, or a VTT - that it'd be hilarious if it were coming from someone without the power to run the game into the ground.
I hate it. I hate treating D&D like a video game. I hate the idea of taking a game that lives and breathes through the personalities of the players AND the DM and making it a generic video game. I hate that they seem really intent on making human DMs optional or a luxury.
And D&D Online.
I am perfectly fine with having D&D mmorpgs and VTTs. Not everyone likes to play pretend at a table and do math by hand. And microtransactions are a good thing. D&D Beyond has microtransaction and it is great, since you do not have to buy the whole book if you do not want to.
If Hasbro can afford to, they absolutely should try out different ways to monetize D&D. Makes absolutely no sense to throw all your eggs in one basket when you can afford to diversify a bit.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
LOL
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Giving your forum thread a boost & updoot because you're making a good point.
I'm not sure that's true - the title. I think DND really is an MMO, only we're playing it wrong, small groups in parallel where really, we could be playing it 'together'.
I'm not really disagreeing, clearly DND isn't WoW. But all players who play in Faerun - for example - really do populate the same world, and I can easily see how that community could be tapped for fun and profit. I mean, just as a very low key example, why does this forum not have a Faerun subforum? Or a Ravenloft, or whatever ditto? Why isn't there a campaign journal subforum?
I mean, I can answer my own questions: WoTC/Hasbro are pretty clueless.
But still. Point remains.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Not really. The best I can describe it is that we're in parallel dimensions (in the sci-fi use of the term, as much as it grates my sensibilities) that often have a lot of similarity. An illustrative example - in my game of TftYP, Meepo died, in BoringBard's, he survived and became a memorable part of the story. Those two versions can't be in the same world.
Most of your post works in that context of us playing in parallel dimensions, but it's not the same concept as MMO where you play alongside one another...although how an MMo could be mapped to reality I have no idea. Players do the sane event and the turns out differently each time...but that's tangential.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just watch the visualizations and expectation with the new movie, or how WotC has hidden the release of the incoming book Golden Vault (whatever It's called). They know they are destroying the game, and they don't mind at all because they are just executives in order to make profit whatever It takes.
DnD is dead.
D&D is not dead. Just because WotC is making a few bad decisions doesn't mean you can't play anymore. You can stop buying WotC products but that doesn't stop you from playing the game. D&D will always be a great game, even if you're just playing with a small group of friends on paper character sheets. WotC might be dying, but neither WotC nor D&D are dead.
If anybody would like my GMing playlists
battles: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2mRp57MBAz9ZsVpw895IzZ?si=243bee43442a4703
exploration: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qk0aKm5yI4K6VrlcaKrDj?si=81057bef509043f3
town/tavern: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/49JSv1kK0bUyQ9LVpKmZlr?si=a88b1dd9bab54111
character deaths: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6k7WhylJEjSqWC0pBuAtFD?si=3e897fa2a2dd469e
Yea, I know it's not a perfect analogy.
But consider WoW - assuming you've been there. The world as such is the same for everyone, and instances and raids are .... also the same for everyone, but we run them in an individual manner.
In a similar vein - still not a perfect analogy - the world of Faerun is (basically) the same, but we run adventures individually. And sure, my Faerun is forever set before the Time of Troubles, for example.
But by and large, it seems to me that a platform - like an advanced VTT or DNDB could easily be a place that was alive, through WoTC and player input, with character tales, setting background, events and so on. Basically - an MMO.
I think this would be a good thing. I might even use it myself, despite all Faerun since the Time of Troubles is ... garbage. And sorry to everyone who thinks differently =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
And it is not up to you to decide what the spirit of the game and brand is for other people. The world does not revolve solely around you. Some people like D&D as videogames, boardgames, comics, and now maybe even movies, and that is totally fine. Hell, Wizard's main focus for D&D is still freaking books, and it is not like they are abandoning books and throwing all their resources into everything else.
I like the MCU and that is what I spend my money on for that brand, but I do not care about the original comics. I do not even care about the TV shows either. I am not going to spend my money on Disney+, let alone the comics, and I will tell diehard fans and anyone else to **** off if they try to dictate how I spend my money.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
D&D is an MMO though it's just there are hundreds of thousands of servers and each server has a max player count of like five. That said I'm now suddenly curious what the largest group was with everyone playing at once at the same time
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
D&D is also just about the book on your shelves, the groups at your table, and the style of game you run. In that regard, it's nothing like an MMO unless you make it that way. I get all the up in arms about everything but how is the experience related to the books you own and the stories you tell at your table impacted, pushed, pulled, or moved in any other direction than the way you want it?
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Bring back the annual membership fee for what was the RPGA and now Adventurers League.
There's your MMO.
Yeah - If I want to play an MMO I'll play an AAA MMO like Elder Scrolls Online, which is not just a quality MMO but also has a lore that blows WOTC out of the water.
Single Player Bethesda blows all D&D releases out of the water as well.
Other people of course have different tastes - but the fact is that the MMO market is packed and competitive and hundreds of mediocre MMO's are launched each year.
WOTC is definitely in the mediocre category. They release stuff, but it's all "meh". All the great IP releases are from the TSR days.
Where exactly are we getting the idea that WotC is making D&D an MMO? Nothing in the OneD&D playtest indicates that to me. The goal of the plsytest is the successful release of updated core rulebooks. Is this a worry about long-term goals (like 5+ years in the future)?
Worries about the OGL I understand, but I again don't see microtransactions in the document.
Cynthia Williams, CEO of WOTC flat out said publicly she wants to monetize the game more similar to current MMO's.
There is nothing inherantly evil about wanting to fully monetize your product. It's basically a legal requirement of publicly traded companies and it basically what Capitalism is all about.
Fully monetizing D&D can mean a billion things, from making movies, to MMOs, to lunch boxes and underoos. It means making more products that those who like D&D may want to buy. And in typical capitalistic fashion, the consumer will decide for themselves.... Ford does it. Apple does it. Goop does it. Hasbro, yes, also does it. Unless you are anti-capitalism then the fact that they want to monetize the game, in and of itself, is not evil.
If you have problems with how they want to monetize it then that is a different issue... But if that is your argument, you should make that argument and provide examples.