It is ia big deal. Wizards has essentially given up on monetizing/profiting on 5e,
No, no, no. This is 100% absolutely false. Wizards still owns tons of 5e books. Just because they can't own the math behind those books doesn't mean they can't publish all the adventure modules and lorebooks and same-universe tie-in literature they want. Movies and videogames. Stop being so dramatic. Nothing important was ever in the SRD because the SRD was CREATED specifically to be open sourced and to draw a line between Wizards content and open content. Wizard lost nothing by conceding the SRD. Absolutely nothing.
In fact, they may have saved 2 companies. This is a WIN. For both sides.
It's an incredible concession I would never have dreamed they'd make, and it's legitimately pissing me off to see people badmouthing the decision and refusing to acknowledge that this is further than people demanded Wizards go.
Slightly further. Yes. There is now a second open license, and you can now pick whichever one you prefer to access SRD content which never included anything wizards thought was licensable anyway. All the stuff that makes D&D D&D is still safe and secure. As far as I can tell, the biggest real concession that wizards made (aside from backing down and admitting they were actually wrong) is now you only need a half paragraph to use the license, instead of a whole page of legal attributions. Don't get me wrong. They totally get, like all the kudos for admitting that they don't own swords that do d8 damage...but it's not like I can suddenly throw Beholders in my books.
We'll see if anybody bothers making 5e content anymore, even though it's now safer to do so than ever.
That is the million dollar question. Even with wizards backing down and admitting that they don't "own" the SRD, there's been a big shakeup and a lot of people have already bailed. Groups have probably ended over this, lines in the sand have been drawn. People are people and demand will be in flux for a while. That said, I still think D&D's probably still one of the more popular games out there, even with a lot of people trying out something new. I ran around trying new systems a while back. My table keeps coming back to 5e though. I doubt others have a vastly different experience. With Hasbro no longer claiming to own "humans" and "orcs" and "elves," there's no reason not to go where the money and the people are.
I will likely renew my subscription now. I never trusted a public corporation to begin with. I hated that they were going back on their word on maintaining the OGL and I didn't like where it was obvious they were going with their business practices concerning their focus and pricing strategies. Now, I fully expect for WoTC to eventually drift to decisions that will sever my relationship with them. It's happened before. I bought 3.0 and was not impressed (and continued playing AD&D) and did not buy 3.5. I also did not play 4th Edition. I suspect I will continue to subscribe as long as I play with people who play 5E and as long as DnDBeyond serves me well as a 5E player. If they start phasing into really only serving the OneD&D game, I will likely bow out (unless it is seamlessly backwards compatible).
I won’t be walking away, nor will I forget what they did to the community. What needs to happen next is accountability, as countless businesses and livelihoods have been needlessly damaged. The executives who conceived OGL1.1 (and then perpetuated such an unmitigated disaster when their own staff were brave enough to show the world what was happening) must be held responsible for the damage done.
The preliminary financial results that hasbro released last night (and precipitated a 5% drop in the stock price) also announced the firing of the president/COO of Hasbro, and that by the Feb 16th conference call more "organizational changes" may happen. We can hope. If we all maintain the pressure by NOT re-subbing, that will help.
From everything we saw there it looks like DnD and Magic are what is keeping Hasbro from tanking on the stock market. The corp needed as much of the bad press to go away.
Imagine what that article would have looked like if, along with the loses in revenue in the other divisions it said, and the growth sector of their business may also take a hit as the WOTC arm is currently loosing digital subscriptions and players, and there is a new movie out with a small boycott trend at the moment. It would have ended the only positive news in that article and investment would have likely moved on.
I am so glad they have righted the ship. I have reactivated.
Please unsub again. Keep the pressure on until the two at the top of wotc are removed. Money is the only thing that can do this.
To meet your point, my next payment to them is not until next October. Should things break bad before then, it is easy for me to change my mind. So, technically speaking, my particular unsub was more symbolic than fiscal. They have held out a massive olive branch, and so have I. I am completely dissatisfied with what has happened. It should have never come to this. I wanted protection for 3pp creators, the OSR and access to 5e in perpetuity. I believe I have gotten that. My reactivating is my way of showing I am pleased with what happened today. Nothing more. I suspect OneDnD will not have the same openness, but I am not sure that matters to me. What I want to see now is the veil to be put back on. I want our game to go back to being about our game instead of our game being about business tactics and corporate greed. I want my suspension of disbelief to set back in.
D&D has won back my support and playership, but I'm not just going to sit on these shiny new pathfinder hardcovers i got from my LGS, either.
i hope that appropriate steps are being taken within the company to discipline those responsible for architecting the attempt to change the OGL. as far as i can tell, D&D took a huge hit for it and will continue to do so as myself and others become more accustomed and entrenched into the world of PF2 and other non-DnD RPGs
at the same time as i'm learning pathfinder, i will continue to play and enjoy D&D as i always have. i don't think i'll ever run a 5e game again, not due to this but because i genuinely come to prefer the GM tools for games like PF after being exposed to them, but i will play given the chance, and be willing to buy materials which facilitate that play, including potentially VTT subscriptions. i am curious what WotC has in store for their in house VTT, and the future of DnD related content from outside the house, like critical role.
I won’t be walking away, nor will I forget what they did to the community. What needs to happen next is accountability, as countless businesses and livelihoods have been needlessly damaged. The executives who conceived OGL1.1 (and then perpetuated such an unmitigated disaster when their own staff were brave enough to show the world what was happening) must be held responsible for the damage done.
The preliminary financial results that hasbro released last night (and precipitated a 5% drop in the stock price) also announced the firing of the president/COO of Hasbro, and that by the Feb 16th conference call more "organizational changes" may happen. We can hope. If we all maintain the pressure by NOT re-subbing, that will help.
From everything we saw there it looks like DnD and Magic are what is keeping Hasbro from tanking on the stock market. The corp needed as much of the bad press to go away.
Imagine what that article would have looked like if, along with the loses in revenue in the other divisions it said, and the growth sector of their business may also take a hit as the WOTC arm is currently loosing digital subscriptions and players, and there is a new movie out with a small boycott trend at the moment. It would have ended the only positive news in that article and investment would have likely moved on.
I am so glad they have righted the ship. I have reactivated.
Please unsub again. Keep the pressure on until the two at the top of wotc are removed. Money is the only thing that can do this.
To meet your point, my next payment to them is not until next October. Should things break bad before then, it is easy for me to change my mind. So, technically speaking, my particular unsub was more symbolic than fiscal. They have held out a massive olive branch, and so have I. I am completely dissatisfied with what has happened. It should have never come to this. I wanted protection for 3pp creators, the OSR and access to 5e in perpetuity. I believe I have gotten that. My reactivating is my way of showing I am pleased with what happened today. Nothing more. I suspect OneDnD will not have the same openness, but I am not sure that matters to me. What I want to see now is the veil to be put back on. I want our game to go back to being about our game instead of our game being about business tactics and corporate greed. I want my suspension of disbelief to set back in.
Unfortunately, your resub is noted, and the financial guys think "we got this one back." Stay unsubbed until about Feb 13th. The conference call is Feb 16th. If the two in question are not fired by the 13th, it is not happening.
The employment status of those two individuals does not concern me. Also, their employment will be questioned regardless. The handling of this issue has been public ally messy. Their plans and goals will be subject to scrutiny. For now, as it appears, my goals have been met. They have repaired the issue. In order for me to give up a single OneDnD dollar, they will have to build a product I can support. I will not support any 3d only micro transaction supported model.
I will not be calling for the firing of people who I do not know. I don’t like what I have seen of late, but they are not my concern. Their employers will take care of them based on their needs. My needs will be overseen by Kyle Brink, Mike Mearls, Jeremy Crawford, Chris Perkins and their team(s). If the leadership makes mistakes, I will withhold my dollars again.
It is ia big deal. Wizards has essentially given up on monetizing/profiting on 5e, or at least to any significant degree more than they already have.
Not really, Paizo make a profit giving away all their core rules, Evil Hat use the very same CC-BY licence & make a profit and a good product even putting far more under it for Fate, Blades in the Dark and more. The Key is making a quality product that people want to buy!
The relationship between WotC and I isn't really comparable to a romance. I'm not in love with WotC, and I never have been. There was a period of time, back in the heyday of Mark Rosewater's Drive To Work podcast, when I admired WotC, in a way. They were a surprisingly creator-centered business, which seemed to really respect the games they made and the players who bought them. Rosewater would often tell the stories of the times WotC management took the advice of the creative team, even when it seemed like a big risk, or constituted a major change to the norm. I was impressed. It seemed like a cool group, I liked their style. But it was never love. That's absurd. I'm not nearly polyamorous enough to love a whole company..!
And since we're not in love, and since we're certainly not married, I don't think it's particularly helpful to give out marriage counseling advice here.
If they make something I want, at a price I can accept, then I'll buy it. That is the relationship between a business and a customer. There's no need for me to rebuild anything -- the sense of admiration I had for them didn't add any value to my life, in the way that a romantic relationship would. If anything, it took money out of my pocket that I wouldn't have spent otherwise. I wonder how much Magic product I bought, less for the value of the cards than for the feeling of supporting a cool project. Hard to say. Probably more than zero though.
I'm willing to forgive them and let them compete to offer content, mostly because a corporation isn't an individual and as long as behavior is proper, I'm willing to patronize worthy services. But I never bothered to pick up much third party content before, and I was already excluding any unsatisfactory options from WotC to begin with. The competition has attention now, with third party developers competing to deliver the content and quality WotC has routinely failed to deliver. So next time they make Spelljammer without engaging ship tactics, I'm just gonna buy elsewhere.
I will be reaching out to friends to join me for the movie though, since I wanted to go and now they have earned the privilege of my business again. May they never forget who the customers are.
I love all the folks telling Wizards to "make a superior product" when the very standards the community holds them to means third-party businesses can completely and utterly steal 100% of Wizards' output and integrate that into their own products. it's like saying "win this race and we'll pay you", except all the other racers get to start at the finish line. Smooth, DDB community.
Like Jurid said - a path to redemption is necessary. Making that path fundamentally impossible to walk is worse than simply saying "no redemption for you." Hold the company to high standards, by all means. Let's make them achievable standards, though.
That's not at all what's happening with third party creators - you're acting like WotC is giving us something by letting us use the framework of D&D 5e and it's rules system. They're not. For starters they didn't even make it, so the amount of actual effort and ownership they should be warranted is minimal at best. They made an updated version of D&D, basically taking the original framework and modifying it to be slightly different, but it's the same core concept; a fantasy ttrpg with elves and stats and rolling of dice. Like, how much credit do you really feel they deserve, honestly? They're not the makers of the original game, it's not like they designed the bicycle we're all riding here - at best they painted it a new color of paint and decided to move the pedals around a little. That's it.
What WotC is 'giving' people is literally just the permission to use their skeleton, which actually benefits WotC just as much if not arguably more than the players themselves; because without anyone wanting to use their specific skeleton, they'd have literally no market whatsoever. Players could play any ttrpg, there are a myriad of free ones out there or they could honestly make their own, it's not exactly rocket science. Without players, the skeleton would be limp and motionless, nothing really there to be had at all. Offering the skeleton at a cost means less players will play with it, but offering it for free gives you the largest amount of possible players who could utilize it. Again, they are 'giving away' something that is in business terms called a loss leader; it's a product you make for free or cheap and basically give away in order to get people in the door, because then they'll buy your other products. Costco's hotdogs are loss leaders for instance; they keep them really cheap because it gets people in the store to eat lunch, and they'll do some shopping while they're there.
I'm glad things shook out the way they did [or, I wish it had never happened at all and it was stupid, but at least someone at WotC put a stop to it before we bled out entirely] but I'm not going to be giving WotC credit for 'creating D&D' or putting a ton of work and effort into something that's kind of not really a product so much as a coral/system for customers that will enable them [and others] to sell those customers products continuously. Like... the game/rules itself are not actually valuable. Not when you look at how TTRPG's actually function in the world.
edit: If they manage to not screw up this latest announcement by revealing a month from now that they're trying some OTHER horribly evil tactic to steal rights from the community that we've enjoyed for 20+ years, I'll go back to being a regular customer. My irritation at you wanting to give them too many props for 'giving away' the game and correct your perception of it should not be confused with me disapproving their latest move, which was IMO a good one. At least, as good of one as they could have done after they literally setting the whole building on fire.
Oh like what? And I mean that with pure curiosity and pure intent. I really don’t understand 100% of everything that’s going on.
The "Open D&D" guys won't stop agitating until the entire executive suite for Wizards of the Coast is fired and never permitted to work again, as well as most of the senior development team for D&D and quite possibly the janitors in the Wizards HQ building. Essentially, the ask is now a scorched-earth policy of "no one who had anything to do with this, or anything to do with anyone who had anything to do with this, is allowed to put food on their table ever again".
Not quite. Ms. Williams and Mr Cao are the architects. The president/COO of Hasbro was there for 16 years and fired yesterday for inadequate results. And the damage he did to hasbro is nothing compared to what these two did.
You're right, it's worse. Hasbro has been stalling in sales and profitability for years while WotC shined. The COO needed to be removed to shake up and refresh the Hasbro side of things, things are way worse on that side of the business despite all the drama being focused on WotC.
Plus, the leadership of WotC listened to the community and not just reversed their plans but even went further than what the community wanted. Not saying the WotC leadership is perfect or even necessarily good (someone intimately familiar with the community/games would be better), but at leastthey're the kind of leadership that is listening to and acting on feedback from the community.
Don't kick the dog for doing the right thing even if it's for the wrong reason. Wizards f*&ked up, they fixed it. Move on.
Be gracious in victory. Obviously people didn't read the op. It's constantly grinding and nagging about bad behavior that has been atoned for that causes a relapse.
They created their own paizo today as OE will have to compete with 5E.
I won’t be walking away, nor will I forget what they did to the community. What needs to happen next is accountability, as countless businesses and livelihoods have been needlessly damaged. The executives who conceived OGL1.1 (and then perpetuated such an unmitigated disaster when their own staff were brave enough to show the world what was happening) must be held responsible for the damage done.
The preliminary financial results that hasbro released last night (and precipitated a 5% drop in the stock price) also announced the firing of the president/COO of Hasbro, and that by the Feb 16th conference call more "organizational changes" may happen. We can hope. If we all maintain the pressure by NOT re-subbing, that will help.
From everything we saw there it looks like DnD and Magic are what is keeping Hasbro from tanking on the stock market. The corp needed as much of the bad press to go away.
Imagine what that article would have looked like if, along with the loses in revenue in the other divisions it said, and the growth sector of their business may also take a hit as the WOTC arm is currently loosing digital subscriptions and players, and there is a new movie out with a small boycott trend at the moment. It would have ended the only positive news in that article and investment would have likely moved on.
I am so glad they have righted the ship. I have reactivated.
Please unsub again. Keep the pressure on until the two at the top of wotc are removed. Money is the only thing that can do this.
To meet your point, my next payment to them is not until next October. Should things break bad before then, it is easy for me to change my mind. So, technically speaking, my particular unsub was more symbolic than fiscal. They have held out a massive olive branch, and so have I. I am completely dissatisfied with what has happened. It should have never come to this. I wanted protection for 3pp creators, the OSR and access to 5e in perpetuity. I believe I have gotten that. My reactivating is my way of showing I am pleased with what happened today. Nothing more. I suspect OneDnD will not have the same openness, but I am not sure that matters to me. What I want to see now is the veil to be put back on. I want our game to go back to being about our game instead of our game being about business tactics and corporate greed. I want my suspension of disbelief to set back in.
Unfortunately, your resub is noted, and the financial guys think "we got this one back." Stay unsubbed until about Feb 13th. The conference call is Feb 16th. If the two in question are not fired by the 13th, it is not happening.
Good idea. I'm sure that if we spell out "fire the executives" in Morse code with our subscriptions, the financial guys will hear the message loud and clear, subsequently decide that we should do their jobs for them, and give some 2-week's notices.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Oh like what? And I mean that with pure curiosity and pure intent. I really don’t understand 100% of everything that’s going on.
The "Open D&D" guys won't stop agitating until the entire executive suite for Wizards of the Coast is fired and never permitted to work again, as well as most of the senior development team for D&D and quite possibly the janitors in the Wizards HQ building. Essentially, the ask is now a scorched-earth policy of "no one who had anything to do with this, or anything to do with anyone who had anything to do with this, is allowed to put food on their table ever again".
Not quite. Ms. Williams and Mr Cao are the architects. The president/COO of Hasbro was there for 16 years and fired yesterday for inadequate results. And the damage he did to hasbro is nothing compared to what these two did.
You're right, it's worse. Hasbro has been stalling in sales and profitability for years while WotC shined. The COO needed to be removed to shake up and refresh the Hasbro side of things, things are way worse on that side of the business despite all the drama being focused on WotC.
Plus, the leadership of WotC listened to the community and not just reversed their plans but even went further than what the community wanted. Not saying the WotC leadership is perfect or even necessarily good (someone intimately familiar with the community/games would be better), but at leastthey're the kind of leadership that is listening to and acting on feedback from the community.
Don't kick the dog for doing the right thing even if it's for the wrong reason. Wizards f*&ked up, they fixed it. Move on.
That user's posting history is fascinating. You're talking to an account that was seemingly created solely to attack WotC, and basically admits it up front in their username
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think making a better VTT & ousting those responsible for this mess is an easily achievable standard. The previews of their vtt are lightyears ahead of most of the other ones I've seen. So I see no reason to believe that they can't make good on that. & it's more like 4 separate races. -One race to make a good game, they have undeniably done that w/ 5e. Which is why ppl want to use the system. They might also achieve that with 6/Onednd. -Second race is to make a good vtt, & it seems like they're on the way to blowing away their competition with that one. -3rd is to make a compelling setting or two, and it seems like they've got that pretty well down. -4th, and finally, is to make good adventures and source material outside using the base rules and one of their settings.
I see no reason why they were poised to do anything other than dominate those races before this debacle.
If they get rid of the people that made this decision in the first place or if Onednd is published under similar conditions or along plans to add those conditions after a set amount of time, then I will surely be coming back to try out their awesome looking vtt. I'd even forgive it some level of bugginess given how far above some other vtts it currently is.
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No, no, no. This is 100% absolutely false. Wizards still owns tons of 5e books. Just because they can't own the math behind those books doesn't mean they can't publish all the adventure modules and lorebooks and same-universe tie-in literature they want. Movies and videogames. Stop being so dramatic. Nothing important was ever in the SRD because the SRD was CREATED specifically to be open sourced and to draw a line between Wizards content and open content. Wizard lost nothing by conceding the SRD. Absolutely nothing.
In fact, they may have saved 2 companies. This is a WIN. For both sides.
Slightly further. Yes. There is now a second open license, and you can now pick whichever one you prefer to access SRD content which never included anything wizards thought was licensable anyway. All the stuff that makes D&D D&D is still safe and secure. As far as I can tell, the biggest real concession that wizards made (aside from backing down and admitting they were actually wrong) is now you only need a half paragraph to use the license, instead of a whole page of legal attributions. Don't get me wrong. They totally get, like all the kudos for admitting that they don't own swords that do d8 damage...but it's not like I can suddenly throw Beholders in my books.
That is the million dollar question. Even with wizards backing down and admitting that they don't "own" the SRD, there's been a big shakeup and a lot of people have already bailed. Groups have probably ended over this, lines in the sand have been drawn. People are people and demand will be in flux for a while. That said, I still think D&D's probably still one of the more popular games out there, even with a lot of people trying out something new. I ran around trying new systems a while back. My table keeps coming back to 5e though. I doubt others have a vastly different experience. With Hasbro no longer claiming to own "humans" and "orcs" and "elves," there's no reason not to go where the money and the people are.
I will likely renew my subscription now. I never trusted a public corporation to begin with. I hated that they were going back on their word on maintaining the OGL and I didn't like where it was obvious they were going with their business practices concerning their focus and pricing strategies. Now, I fully expect for WoTC to eventually drift to decisions that will sever my relationship with them. It's happened before. I bought 3.0 and was not impressed (and continued playing AD&D) and did not buy 3.5. I also did not play 4th Edition. I suspect I will continue to subscribe as long as I play with people who play 5E and as long as DnDBeyond serves me well as a 5E player. If they start phasing into really only serving the OneD&D game, I will likely bow out (unless it is seamlessly backwards compatible).
To meet your point, my next payment to them is not until next October. Should things break bad before then, it is easy for me to change my mind.
So, technically speaking, my particular unsub was more symbolic than fiscal.
They have held out a massive olive branch, and so have I.
I am completely dissatisfied with what has happened. It should have never come to this. I wanted protection for 3pp creators, the OSR and access to 5e in perpetuity. I believe I have gotten that. My reactivating is my way of showing I am pleased with what happened today. Nothing more. I suspect OneDnD will not have the same openness, but I am not sure that matters to me.
What I want to see now is the veil to be put back on. I want our game to go back to being about our game instead of our game being about business tactics and corporate greed. I want my suspension of disbelief to set back in.
D&D has won back my support and playership, but I'm not just going to sit on these shiny new pathfinder hardcovers i got from my LGS, either.
i hope that appropriate steps are being taken within the company to discipline those responsible for architecting the attempt to change the OGL. as far as i can tell, D&D took a huge hit for it and will continue to do so as myself and others become more accustomed and entrenched into the world of PF2 and other non-DnD RPGs
at the same time as i'm learning pathfinder, i will continue to play and enjoy D&D as i always have. i don't think i'll ever run a 5e game again, not due to this but because i genuinely come to prefer the GM tools for games like PF after being exposed to them, but i will play given the chance, and be willing to buy materials which facilitate that play, including potentially VTT subscriptions. i am curious what WotC has in store for their in house VTT, and the future of DnD related content from outside the house, like critical role.
The employment status of those two individuals does not concern me. Also, their employment will be questioned regardless. The handling of this issue has been public ally messy. Their plans and goals will be subject to scrutiny.
For now, as it appears, my goals have been met.
They have repaired the issue. In order for me to give up a single OneDnD dollar, they will have to build a product I can support. I will not support any 3d only micro transaction supported model.
I will not be calling for the firing of people who I do not know. I don’t like what I have seen of late, but they are not my concern. Their employers will take care of them based on their needs. My needs will be overseen by Kyle Brink, Mike Mearls, Jeremy Crawford, Chris Perkins and their team(s). If the leadership makes mistakes, I will withhold my dollars again.
Not really, Paizo make a profit giving away all their core rules, Evil Hat use the very same CC-BY licence & make a profit and a good product even putting far more under it for Fate, Blades in the Dark and more. The Key is making a quality product that people want to buy!
The relationship between WotC and I isn't really comparable to a romance. I'm not in love with WotC, and I never have been. There was a period of time, back in the heyday of Mark Rosewater's Drive To Work podcast, when I admired WotC, in a way. They were a surprisingly creator-centered business, which seemed to really respect the games they made and the players who bought them. Rosewater would often tell the stories of the times WotC management took the advice of the creative team, even when it seemed like a big risk, or constituted a major change to the norm. I was impressed. It seemed like a cool group, I liked their style. But it was never love. That's absurd. I'm not nearly polyamorous enough to love a whole company..!
And since we're not in love, and since we're certainly not married, I don't think it's particularly helpful to give out marriage counseling advice here.
If they make something I want, at a price I can accept, then I'll buy it. That is the relationship between a business and a customer. There's no need for me to rebuild anything -- the sense of admiration I had for them didn't add any value to my life, in the way that a romantic relationship would. If anything, it took money out of my pocket that I wouldn't have spent otherwise. I wonder how much Magic product I bought, less for the value of the cards than for the feeling of supporting a cool project. Hard to say. Probably more than zero though.
I'm willing to forgive them and let them compete to offer content, mostly because a corporation isn't an individual and as long as behavior is proper, I'm willing to patronize worthy services. But I never bothered to pick up much third party content before, and I was already excluding any unsatisfactory options from WotC to begin with. The competition has attention now, with third party developers competing to deliver the content and quality WotC has routinely failed to deliver. So next time they make Spelljammer without engaging ship tactics, I'm just gonna buy elsewhere.
I will be reaching out to friends to join me for the movie though, since I wanted to go and now they have earned the privilege of my business again. May they never forget who the customers are.
That's not at all what's happening with third party creators - you're acting like WotC is giving us something by letting us use the framework of D&D 5e and it's rules system. They're not. For starters they didn't even make it, so the amount of actual effort and ownership they should be warranted is minimal at best. They made an updated version of D&D, basically taking the original framework and modifying it to be slightly different, but it's the same core concept; a fantasy ttrpg with elves and stats and rolling of dice. Like, how much credit do you really feel they deserve, honestly? They're not the makers of the original game, it's not like they designed the bicycle we're all riding here - at best they painted it a new color of paint and decided to move the pedals around a little. That's it.
What WotC is 'giving' people is literally just the permission to use their skeleton, which actually benefits WotC just as much if not arguably more than the players themselves; because without anyone wanting to use their specific skeleton, they'd have literally no market whatsoever. Players could play any ttrpg, there are a myriad of free ones out there or they could honestly make their own, it's not exactly rocket science. Without players, the skeleton would be limp and motionless, nothing really there to be had at all. Offering the skeleton at a cost means less players will play with it, but offering it for free gives you the largest amount of possible players who could utilize it. Again, they are 'giving away' something that is in business terms called a loss leader; it's a product you make for free or cheap and basically give away in order to get people in the door, because then they'll buy your other products. Costco's hotdogs are loss leaders for instance; they keep them really cheap because it gets people in the store to eat lunch, and they'll do some shopping while they're there.
I'm glad things shook out the way they did [or, I wish it had never happened at all and it was stupid, but at least someone at WotC put a stop to it before we bled out entirely] but I'm not going to be giving WotC credit for 'creating D&D' or putting a ton of work and effort into something that's kind of not really a product so much as a coral/system for customers that will enable them [and others] to sell those customers products continuously. Like... the game/rules itself are not actually valuable. Not when you look at how TTRPG's actually function in the world.
edit: If they manage to not screw up this latest announcement by revealing a month from now that they're trying some OTHER horribly evil tactic to steal rights from the community that we've enjoyed for 20+ years, I'll go back to being a regular customer. My irritation at you wanting to give them too many props for 'giving away' the game and correct your perception of it should not be confused with me disapproving their latest move, which was IMO a good one. At least, as good of one as they could have done after they literally setting the whole building on fire.
You're right, it's worse. Hasbro has been stalling in sales and profitability for years while WotC shined. The COO needed to be removed to shake up and refresh the Hasbro side of things, things are way worse on that side of the business despite all the drama being focused on WotC.
Plus, the leadership of WotC listened to the community and not just reversed their plans but even went further than what the community wanted. Not saying the WotC leadership is perfect or even necessarily good (someone intimately familiar with the community/games would be better), but at least they're the kind of leadership that is listening to and acting on feedback from the community.
Don't kick the dog for doing the right thing even if it's for the wrong reason. Wizards f*&ked up, they fixed it. Move on.
I applaud the message sent out today. I re-activated my subscription. Glad my voice was part of those that were heard.
As much as i want to call today a win i think at best it is a pyrrhic victory.
Be gracious in victory. Obviously people didn't read the op. It's constantly grinding and nagging about bad behavior that has been atoned for that causes a relapse.
They created their own paizo today as OE will have to compete with 5E.
Good idea. I'm sure that if we spell out "fire the executives" in Morse code with our subscriptions, the financial guys will hear the message loud and clear, subsequently decide that we should do their jobs for them, and give some 2-week's notices.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
That user's posting history is fascinating. You're talking to an account that was seemingly created solely to attack WotC, and basically admits it up front in their username
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
They probably don’t want any back lash from DnD beyond. But I guess they didn’t have much to say.
Anyways excited to see the future of dnd now :-)
I think making a better VTT & ousting those responsible for this mess is an easily achievable standard. The previews of their vtt are lightyears ahead of most of the other ones I've seen. So I see no reason to believe that they can't make good on that.
& it's more like 4 separate races.
-One race to make a good game, they have undeniably done that w/ 5e. Which is why ppl want to use the system. They might also achieve that with 6/Onednd.
-Second race is to make a good vtt, & it seems like they're on the way to blowing away their competition with that one.
-3rd is to make a compelling setting or two, and it seems like they've got that pretty well down.
-4th, and finally, is to make good adventures and source material outside using the base rules and one of their settings.
I see no reason why they were poised to do anything other than dominate those races before this debacle.
If they get rid of the people that made this decision in the first place or if Onednd is published under similar conditions or along plans to add those conditions after a set amount of time, then I will surely be coming back to try out their awesome looking vtt. I'd even forgive it some level of bugginess given how far above some other vtts it currently is.