Many of us don't identify with either parent's race. But as something else. As third culture. This is a thing. It's not not a thing just because you're ignorant of it. This is why the half-elf as a playable race has resonated with many of us for years.
Yes, I am part of third culture as well, being a child of immigrants. This is also why the half elf race resonated with me strongly for the whole time I've played D&D.
Can someone please articulate for me how the half-elf as is doesn't better reflect this than making it standard for the player to be forced to make a conscious choice that prioritizes one over the other?
I'm glad you asked this because it wasn't something I had thought about before, but now that you mention it I think the proposed changes do accomplish the representation of mixed cultures better than the current system. The Half Elf as it is in the 2014 PHB has one story, one about persecution and estrangement and alienation. Which can be the story of some people in third culture communities, but it is not all of them. It doesn't really hint at any other kind of experience. Then if you look at the mechanics it is basically a Charisma focus and extra skills. Which again, is only one take and doesn't account for the diverse experiences of the different people in the different third culture communities.
What made me feel more comfortable and more welcome with the proposed changes was the ability for more customization between the species feature, the level 1 Feat, the languages, and backgrounds. I do feel more able to represent someone in a fantasy third culture with the US playtest than with the singular Half Elf racial features.
That's just me and my own lived experience. Again, I acknowledge that yours may be different.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If Ophidimancer's stance is that biology should not be mechanically represented at all, he can just say that. That's a thesis in and of itself and doesn't really need anything else. I don't agree, but I can respect the position and don't really want to argue it.
Consider it said, if you'll look at my last response to you.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Many of us don't identify with either parent's race. But as something else. As third culture. This is a thing. It's not not a thing just because you're ignorant of it. This is why the half-elf as a playable race has resonated with many of us for years.
Can someone please articulate for me how the half-elf as is doesn't better reflect this than making it standard for the player to be forced to make a conscious choice that prioritizes one over the other?
I'm not asking you to do the math for how many different species there are and the logistics of handling this for each and every possible combination. I'm not asking you to wax lyrical about homebrew. Which we all do.
I'd just appreciate an adequate response to the concerns of myself and others that isn't insensitive and dismissive.
The half-elf is one single specific option.
You're missing the point. "Half-Elf" is an example. This isn't about the specific races. This isn't even about the game. It's about a decision Wizards made that makes a large number of player feel marginalized because of their own heritage.
I fully support asking for better solutions that help more people feel welcome. Leaving the Half Elf and Half Orc the same is not the solution. There could be something better than the Origins UA, and I'm all for something different and better, but removing Half Elves and Half Orcs as singular mechanical oddities and others is better for some of us because they made us uncomfortable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I'm going to continue to play the current edition or another or another game entirely.
I'm not supporting a game that rules that a mixed-race character must be mechanically aligned with one parent race. While the other is purely cosmetic. And I've no interest being at the tables of those who want to remain in denial and continue to be willfully ignorant of why that is.
... I'm not supporting a game that rules that a mixed-race character must be mechanically aligned with one parent race. While the other is purely cosmetic.
They haven't ruled that yet. The Origins blurb was one paragraph in a seven month old playtest document, many parts of which have already been changed or discarded. The Origins playtest included the ardlings, which have since been culled from the nuPHB entirely, and several of the options in that document were later revised and tested a second time. This thing you hate is not Official D&D Rules and almost certainly will not be Official D&D Rules.
And I've no interest being at the tables of those who want to remain in denial and continue to be willfully ignorant of why that is.
What do you want me to say? I've tried to respond to your arguments. Yes, I've been heated about it at times, but I've tried to respond to your arguments. Pretty much the only thing you've said back to me in turn is quoting yourself calling me disgusting.
Why not simply modify the 'Custom Lineage' to be 'select two species as parents' and select one from each parent-species benefit/perk (something along those lines), and determine your own character representation for traits, skin color, hair color, eyes, height, weight, etc.
I think it says something that instead of fostering acceptance and inclusivity of all integration choices it was instead decided certain words or stereotypes carried a negative connotation.
Only let's dismiss people's concerns about this particular decision.
One poster in this thread in a private message said of my concerns that I needed to be "in therapy."
I'm out of here/
That is not okay. That is not okay on many, many levels.
I sincerely hope whoever thinks that "therapy" is the solution for people having a different opinion than they do finds the time to sit down and think - really think - about the words that they let fall out of their face an onto the keyword and ask themselves "who really needs the therapy here".
Yes, I am part of third culture as well, being a child of immigrants. This is also why the half elf race resonated with me strongly for the whole time I've played D&D.
I'm glad you asked this because it wasn't something I had thought about before, but now that you mention it I think the proposed changes do accomplish the representation of mixed cultures better than the current system. The Half Elf as it is in the 2014 PHB has one story, one about persecution and estrangement and alienation. Which can be the story of some people in third culture communities, but it is not all of them. It doesn't really hint at any other kind of experience. Then if you look at the mechanics it is basically a Charisma focus and extra skills. Which again, is only one take and doesn't account for the diverse experiences of the different people in the different third culture communities.
What made me feel more comfortable and more welcome with the proposed changes was the ability for more customization between the species feature, the level 1 Feat, the languages, and backgrounds. I do feel more able to represent someone in a fantasy third culture with the US playtest than with the singular Half Elf racial features.
That's just me and my own lived experience. Again, I acknowledge that yours may be different.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Consider it said, if you'll look at my last response to you.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You're missing the point. "Half-Elf" is an example. This isn't about the specific races. This isn't even about the game. It's about a decision Wizards made that makes a large number of player feel marginalized because of their own heritage.
Ongoing Projects: The Mimic Book of Mimics :: SHARK WEEK
Completed Projects: The Trick-or-Treat Table
My Homebrews: Races :: Classes :: Spells :: Items :: Monsters
I fully support asking for better solutions that help more people feel welcome. Leaving the Half Elf and Half Orc the same is not the solution. There could be something better than the Origins UA, and I'm all for something different and better, but removing Half Elves and Half Orcs as singular mechanical oddities and others is better for some of us because they made us uncomfortable.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I've a better idea.
I'm going to continue to play the current edition or another or another game entirely.
I'm not supporting a game that rules that a mixed-race character must be mechanically aligned with one parent race. While the other is purely cosmetic. And I've no interest being at the tables of those who want to remain in denial and continue to be willfully ignorant of why that is.
Let's make the game welcoming.
Only let's dismiss people's concerns about this particular decision.
One poster in this thread in a private message said of my concerns that I needed to be "in therapy."
I'm out of here/
They haven't ruled that yet. The Origins blurb was one paragraph in a seven month old playtest document, many parts of which have already been changed or discarded. The Origins playtest included the ardlings, which have since been culled from the nuPHB entirely, and several of the options in that document were later revised and tested a second time. This thing you hate is not Official D&D Rules and almost certainly will not be Official D&D Rules.
What do you want me to say? I've tried to respond to your arguments. Yes, I've been heated about it at times, but I've tried to respond to your arguments. Pretty much the only thing you've said back to me in turn is quoting yourself calling me disgusting.
What do you want people to say?
What is the objective, here?
Please do not contact or message me.
Why not simply modify the 'Custom Lineage' to be 'select two species as parents' and select one from each parent-species benefit/perk (something along those lines), and determine your own character representation for traits, skin color, hair color, eyes, height, weight, etc.
I think it says something that instead of fostering acceptance and inclusivity of all integration choices it was instead decided certain words or stereotypes carried a negative connotation.
That is not okay. That is not okay on many, many levels.
I sincerely hope whoever thinks that "therapy" is the solution for people having a different opinion than they do finds the time to sit down and think - really think - about the words that they let fall out of their face an onto the keyword and ask themselves "who really needs the therapy here".
Ongoing Projects: The Mimic Book of Mimics :: SHARK WEEK
Completed Projects: The Trick-or-Treat Table
My Homebrews: Races :: Classes :: Spells :: Items :: Monsters
This thread has devolved into personal attacks and hostilities, so will now be locked
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