While these changes are manageable, it is unbelievably rude to insist that a thing that has objectively occurred to the character sheets has not. It is very definition of gaslighting: insistently declaring a glaringly obvious truth is not true. Crayontheseer, and anyone else interested in doing so, are 100% unable to use the DDB character sheet without it including some 5.5e rules, even with only the legacy options active. Minor changes =/= no changes. Miniscule changes =/= no changes. Change is change. Whether that change troubles people is not for you to decide. No one has to justify their life’s experience to you, no one has to qualify their preferences with you and you alone do not define reality.
The changes are extremely minor and cosmetic, and I do not think it warrants the extremely negative response you gave. What issue are you having with the character sheet? I can still create 2014 characters as before, and track the old spells and items just fine. The only major difference I see is the slight change in character creation order and few changes in words/terms, but that is about it.
Where did I say I’m having any issue with the character sheet? I said it is a bald-faced lie to tell anyone nothing has changed. You admit yourself that there are changes. The character sheet is undeniably different. I find the changes manageable but how I feel about the changes is absolutely immaterial to the fact that the changes do exist. It is rude and arrogant to claim otherwise or treat others poorly for not sharing one’s opinion of the changes.
I am not lugging around ANY physical libraries, regardless of system. If I have to bring a book to a table, the only book I will bring is whatever adventure book I am running. Digital books and tools are so much more efficient for running a game. Most physical books are not only a waste of space on the table, they are also a huge waste of time too if you need to reference and find something quickly. I highly doubt anyone can create a character in any system in less than 5 minutes with a physical character sheet, let alone match the level of detail of a digital sheet. And tracking resources is a pain in the ass on paper. With class/subclass cards, spell cards, item cards, and resource counters/tokens, then a physical sheet can maybe come close to the efficiency and functionality of a digital sheet.
I value my time and the health of my back. Going full physical is just a downright awful experience.
I completely understand the position, I don't agree with it even a little bit, but I understand it. I think the movement to digital gaming is completely destroying this hobby, sucking the very life out of its soul and it really marks a definitive end to the D&D franchise as we know it in my opinion. There will be a day, when we are going to be trying to figure out why things are so messed up and broken and while we will identify the shift to digital as the root cause, it will be waaaay too late to do anything about it.
Its a shame that people don't see it, but the self-destruction is as inevitable as water is wet. Not much left to do but watch it burn down.
Same principle as smartphones, half the planet has stopped living and spends their days scrolling on their phones, a literal zombie apocalypse and now all of a sudden people realize its a problem but the time to do something about it has long since passed.
Currently all my characters have been changed to 6E automatically. I am not planning on buying 6E. I want to be able to create my characters in 5E. Even using the Legacy option, some things are missing. Any suggestions on how to set the default to 5E? If not, thanks anyway.
This is a message to the past. Everything is not quite fine.
While these changes are manageable, it is unbelievably rude to insist that a thing that has objectively occurred to the character sheets has not. It is very definition of gaslighting: insistently declaring a glaringly obvious truth is not true. Crayontheseer, and anyone else interested in doing so, are 100% unable to use the DDB character sheet without it including some 5.5e rules, even with only the legacy options active. Minor changes =/= no changes. Miniscule changes =/= no changes. Change is change. Whether that change troubles people is not for you to decide. No one has to justify their life’s experience to you, no one has to qualify their preferences with you and you alone do not define reality.
The changes are extremely minor and cosmetic, and I do not think it warrants the extremely negative response you gave. What issue are you having with the character sheet? I can still create 2014 characters as before, and track the old spells and items just fine. The only major difference I see is the slight change in character creation order and few changes in words/terms, but that is about it.
Where did I say I’m having any issue with the character sheet? I said it is a bald-faced lie to tell anyone nothing has changed. You admit yourself that there are changes. The character sheet is undeniably different. I find the changes manageable but how I feel about the changes is absolutely immaterial to the fact that the changes do exist. It is rude and arrogant to claim otherwise or treat others poorly for not sharing one’s opinion of the changes.
My bad, I confused you with the other poster. The other poster said the characters have been changed to 6e and they are not fine with it, but they have not elaborated which changes have bothered them. I have not seen any changes that are an issue. My characters created before September 3rd still functioned like before.
The only changes I noticed are the slight reordering of the character creation process and Inspiration being changed to Heroic Inspiration. Those are undeniable changes, but I do not think those changes deserves the visceral reactions to it. It still feels like the same character sheet to me. I do not think the extreme reaction is proportional to the changes that have been made.
If Beyond went ahead and replaced all 2014 spells with 2024 spells, or something similar drastic like that, then sure, I would understand the extremely negative reaction, but I do not see that.
I am not lugging around ANY physical libraries, regardless of system. If I have to bring a book to a table, the only book I will bring is whatever adventure book I am running. Digital books and tools are so much more efficient for running a game. Most physical books are not only a waste of space on the table, they are also a huge waste of time too if you need to reference and find something quickly. I highly doubt anyone can create a character in any system in less than 5 minutes with a physical character sheet, let alone match the level of detail of a digital sheet. And tracking resources is a pain in the ass on paper. With class/subclass cards, spell cards, item cards, and resource counters/tokens, then a physical sheet can maybe come close to the efficiency and functionality of a digital sheet.
I value my time and the health of my back. Going full physical is just a downright awful experience.
I completely understand the position, I don't agree with it even a little bit, but I understand it. I think the movement to digital gaming is completely destroying this hobby, sucking the very life out of its soul and it really marks a definitive end to the D&D franchise as we know it in my opinion. There will be a day, when we are going to be trying to figure out why things are so messed up and broken and while we will identify the shift to digital as the root cause, it will be waaaay too late to do anything about it.
Its a shame that people don't see it, but the self-destruction is as inevitable as water is wet. Not much left to do but watch it burn down.
Here is the reality: D&D has had official digital tools for over 32% of its lifetime - and unofficial digital tools for even longer. These tools have never done anything but make the game better for the community as a whole. For those who use them, they make the game more accessible to a wider range of players. They allow pen and paper players to easily search things or have access on the fly. They make it easier for people to play the parts of the game they like (regardless of what they like - number crunchy players can use digital tools to rapidly create lots of characters to test out their theories; players who don’t like crunchy systems can use them to hasten creation and get to playing. They make it easier to organize and run your campaign through various sortable systems and other in-game organizational tools. They make it easier to connect with people all over the world, so you can get a game running quicker.
And at what cost to the community? Nothing. People who want to ply pen and paper still can - hell, the new PHB is explicitly laid out in a way to make it easier to play the game in pen and paper than any previous PHB ever has been.
Here is what I think is actually happening - and why certain people are complaining about the “soul” of D&D going away. Those people are confusing correlation for causation. They see a rise in digital tools coinciding with a rise in the visibility of segments of the community they don’t like - the people who would rather play a game than crunch numbers, the people who are sick of the racism Gygax inserted in the game, the people who love a good story heavy game instead of a combat one, or whatever other silly thing they are claiming is destroying the “soul” of the game.
These “soul is dying” folks mistakenly think those groups are new, brought in by the digital toolsets. They are wrong, of course, as they so often are. After all, those groups have been here for fifty years also - but the internet has increased our access to other perspectives, allowing us to see playgroups beyond the insular ones we usually play with. So, these grognards who want to gatekeep the “soul” of the game see more people they think are wrong for the game and see more digital tools - they cannot admit to themselves that the former group was there for decades before digital tools (for that would hurt their incorrect view that their vision of the “soul” of the game is the one and only right way to play), so they then try to blame the digital tools for “creating” the players they don’t like. It’s wrong, of course, and easily disproven by reality - but in their minds, it is necessary to point the finger somewhere, since their entire view on what the game “should be” is dependent on them pretending their limited experience decades ago was the same experience everyone decades ago held.
Sorry for the post. Sat down with another DM and we worked out the issues. Wasn't trying to stir up trouble or "gaslight" anyone. My apologies to all. I will try and remove the original post.
I am not lugging around ANY physical libraries, regardless of system. If I have to bring a book to a table, the only book I will bring is whatever adventure book I am running. Digital books and tools are so much more efficient for running a game. Most physical books are not only a waste of space on the table, they are also a huge waste of time too if you need to reference and find something quickly. I highly doubt anyone can create a character in any system in less than 5 minutes with a physical character sheet, let alone match the level of detail of a digital sheet. And tracking resources is a pain in the ass on paper. With class/subclass cards, spell cards, item cards, and resource counters/tokens, then a physical sheet can maybe come close to the efficiency and functionality of a digital sheet.
I value my time and the health of my back. Going full physical is just a downright awful experience.
I completely understand the position, I don't agree with it even a little bit, but I understand it. I think the movement to digital gaming is completely destroying this hobby, sucking the very life out of its soul and it really marks a definitive end to the D&D franchise as we know it in my opinion. There will be a day, when we are going to be trying to figure out why things are so messed up and broken and while we will identify the shift to digital as the root cause, it will be waaaay too late to do anything about it.
Its a shame that people don't see it, but the self-destruction is as inevitable as water is wet. Not much left to do but watch it burn down.
Same principle as smartphones, half the planet has stopped living and spends their days scrolling on their phones, a literal zombie apocalypse and now all of a sudden people realize its a problem but the time to do something about it has long since passed.
People have been complaining about the press, newspapers, comic books, television, anime, videogames, music, internet, social media, MySpace, Facebook, TikTok, etc. for generations throughout history about how they corrupt society or are the devil's tool. And such arguments itself have been used against D&D too. Humanity and D&D will be fine. I may be worried about Beyond as an individual toolset, but I am not worried about having new digital tools.
Digital tools have existed for a very long time, hell I recall using AD&D character generators from Floppy Discs as far back as 2nd edition AD&D. I think everyone responding knows this is not what I'm talking about. Digital tools in the past have never threatened the physical product, it was in support of, not as a replacement for physical books and the game played at the table as a conversation. The goal of physical tools up to this point, which included DnD Beyond when it started was to be a reference for the table top game.
This revised edition of the game may very well be the last time we see a printed version of D&D and the concept of "playing D&D", ten years from now will be exclusively done on VTT. Gaining access to the game in any form will require a DnD Beyond Subscription where you will be nickel and dimed by microtransactions. By this time next year there will be products for D&D the role-playing game that exist exclusively on the VTT and DnD Beyond as digital releases, feats, classes, sub-classes, monsters etc... will be created, published and sold on the VTT and nowhere else. This WILL happen, its already happening. Digital exclusives will quickly turn the entire game into a digital exclusive.
I know that this does not bother many people, some, perhaps many will see it as simply a natural evolution of the game and that is fine. Perhaps this is just the way its going to be, but personally I do think this franchise has a soul. There is such a thing as the intangible spirit that exists in this game and until pretty recently there were still people even at Wizards of the Coast that were trying to protect it and ensure it survived beyond 5th edition and beyond the corporate machine, culture wars and politics. Today however, I think, at this point they have literally fired everyone who was still guarding the physical game. D&D is going the way of Star Wars, its just being rotted out from its core by people who hate it so much they want to change everything about it and they do it in the name of "pretending" to love it, even though very clearly every step they take is done out of resentment for its origins and all anything fans can do is hope that at some point someone steps up and actually tries to save it. D&D is falling into this same trap and just like Star Wars, by the time anyone realizes it may actually already be too late to do anything about it.
Its a bummer, I'm looking forward to my 2024 rulebook, but I suspect it might actually end up being the last D&D book, for the last edition I will ever buy. I think the next one is going to be a digital product created by people who legitimately hate me, my entire generation and the game we played for 50 years.
Digital tools have existed for a very long time, hell I recall using AD&D character generators from Floppy Discs as far back as 2nd edition AD&D. I think everyone responding knows this is not what I'm talking about. Digital tools in the past have never threatened the physical product, it was in support of, not as a replacement for physical books and the game played at the table as a conversation. The goal of physical tools up to this point, which included DnD Beyond when it started was to be a reference for the table top game.
This revised edition of the game may very well be the last time we see a printed version of D&D and the concept of "playing D&D", ten years from now will be exclusively done on VTT. Gaining access to the game in any form will require a DnD Beyond Subscription where you will be nickel and dimed by microtransactions. By this time next year there will be products for D&D the role-playing game that exist exclusively on the VTT and DnD Beyond as digital releases, feats, classes, sub-classes, monsters etc... will be created, published and sold on the VTT and nowhere else. This WILL happen, its already happening. Digital exclusives will quickly turn the entire game into a digital exclusive.
I know that this does not bother many people, some, perhaps many will see it as simply a natural evolution of the game and that is fine. Perhaps this is just the way its going to be, but personally I do think this franchise has a soul. There is such a thing as the intangible spirit that exists in this game and until pretty recently there were still people even at Wizards of the Coast that were trying to protect it and ensure it survived beyond 5th edition and beyond the corporate machine, culture wars and politics. Today however, I think, at this point they have literally fired everyone who was still guarding the physical game. D&D is going the way of Star Wars, its just being rotted out from its core by people who hate it so much they want to change everything about it and they do it in the name of "pretending" to love it, even though very clearly every step they take is done out of resentment for its origins and all anything fans can do is hope that at some point someone steps up and actually tries to save it. D&D is falling into this same trap and just like Star Wars, by the time anyone realizes it may actually already be too late to do anything about it.
Its a bummer, I'm looking forward to my 2024 rulebook, but I suspect it might actually end up being the last D&D book, for the last edition I will ever buy. I think the next one is going to be a digital product created by people who legitimately hate me, my entire generation and the game we played for 50 years.
When evaluating claims that are pure speculation presented as fact, it is important to consider whether the person presenting this information is trustworthy or wherever they might have an ulterior motive behind their baseless speculation. Note, for example, that this person engaging in baseless speculation is on a 5e forum with a username that reads “I hate 5e and want to play any other edition of D&D forever.” I think that speaks volumes to the credibility of their baseless speculation.
It is also important to note that, not only is their post unsupported by fact, their groundless fear mongering is directly controverted by reality. Here are the facts, not necessarily for this user - I doubt someone who is here to push an agenda and clearly is okay making up their own facts cares about reality - but for anyone who might be inclined to think this user is engaging in honest discussion and might confuse their anti-5e agenda for something with substance:
1. Wizards’ staff, both the senior leadership (including the present CEO of Hasbro) and junior staff likely to take over for the next generation of leadership, have all repeatedly talked about how they are tabletop players - and many of them have talked about how they are pen and paper players. Repeatedly, these staff members have discussed how they believe preserving tabletop play is important not only for the game’s health, but for their own enjoyment of the game. Both the current and next generation of leadership have a personal vested interest in preserving tabletop, non-virtual play.
2. Wizards repeatedly has said that their intensive analytics show that tabletop play is their most common type of play. While VTTs are a large secondary revenue stream that Wizards is trying to tap into, they have a financial interest in preserving tabletop play.
3. The anti-Wizards crowd of rabble rousers put a lot of effort into making these “Wizards is going to use 5.24 to sacrifice tabletop play for VTTs.” They spent months trying to convince others of this “fact.” The reality? Now that we have the 2024 PHB, the book was explicitly designed to support tabletop and pen and paper play - it even has little warnings to prevent you from making certain choices subject to change later in character creation, explicitly to prevent players from making mistakes they’ll have to erase or white out if playing on paper. Considering the history of the game, it is likely this handbook will be the primary introduction to the game for the next 5-10 years, clearly signaling pen and paper will remain supported for at least another decade.
4. Wizards is currently riding a wave of players who are interested in the game explicitly because they saw tabletop play, either through actual plays like Critical Role or in shows like Stranger Things. Arguing that Wizards is going to change away from a model presented by this easy, effective, and often free (to them) advertising is quite silly.
5. Wizards has repeatedly discussed how local game stores are not only an important part of their revenue stream. A switch to pure digital content would be cutting out an important partner in Wizards revenue model - a partner Wizards has actively been showing an increased interest in protecting against the rise in digital sales by offering things like early access, LGS-exclusive collector edition copies of books, and increased support for at-store tabletop play. Wizards has clearly signaled their intent to support LGS’s in tabletop play; a reversal and focus exclusively on digital would run contrary to the recent trends.
And so much more.
As things presently stand, Wizards has a personal and financial interest in tabletop play and are currently and actively reaffirming their commitment to both tabletop and pen and paper play.
So, you really have to ask yourself this: What is more likely? All the present facts and trends are wrong and Wizards is going to reverse course and in an entirely uncapitalistic way are going to abandon their primary revenue stream? Or the folks who hate 5e, who are only here to push their anti-Wizards, anti-5e agenda, who already were wrong about the 2024 PHB signaling a shift away from tabletop, are engaging in the same practice doomsday prophets have done since time immemorial - “okay, so my last unsupported doomsday prediction was wrong, but listen here, when I make the exact same baseless predictions about the future, next time I will be right, so please, trust me this time?”
D&D is going the way of Star Wars, its just being rotted out from its core by people who hate it so much they want to change everything about it and they do it in the name of "pretending" to love it, even though very clearly every step they take is done out of resentment for its origins and all anything fans can do is hope that at some point someone steps up and actually tries to save it. D&D is falling into this same trap and just like Star Wars, by the time anyone realizes it may actually already be too late to do anything about it.
This entire paragraph is spurious nonsense at best, but I had to laugh so hard at this particular section. Star Wars is incredibly successful even with the relatively disappointing movies and one of the most common criticisms of new shows is that they stick too much to their origins. You've completely invented a reality for yourself to paint yourself as some dying breed of hero preserving the "true" core of a media franchise. It's so unbelievably silly.
Digital tools have existed for a very long time, hell I recall using AD&D character generators from Floppy Discs as far back as 2nd edition AD&D. I think everyone responding knows this is not what I'm talking about. Digital tools in the past have never threatened the physical product, it was in support of, not as a replacement for physical books and the game played at the table as a conversation. The goal of physical tools up to this point, which included DnD Beyond when it started was to be a reference for the table top game.
This revised edition of the game may very well be the last time we see a printed version of D&D and the concept of "playing D&D", ten years from now will be exclusively done on VTT. Gaining access to the game in any form will require a DnD Beyond Subscription where you will be nickel and dimed by microtransactions. By this time next year there will be products for D&D the role-playing game that exist exclusively on the VTT and DnD Beyond as digital releases, feats, classes, sub-classes, monsters etc... will be created, published and sold on the VTT and nowhere else. This WILL happen, its already happening. Digital exclusives will quickly turn the entire game into a digital exclusive.
I know that this does not bother many people, some, perhaps many will see it as simply a natural evolution of the game and that is fine. Perhaps this is just the way its going to be, but personally I do think this franchise has a soul. There is such a thing as the intangible spirit that exists in this game and until pretty recently there were still people even at Wizards of the Coast that were trying to protect it and ensure it survived beyond 5th edition and beyond the corporate machine, culture wars and politics. Today however, I think, at this point they have literally fired everyone who was still guarding the physical game. D&D is going the way of Star Wars, its just being rotted out from its core by people who hate it so much they want to change everything about it and they do it in the name of "pretending" to love it, even though very clearly every step they take is done out of resentment for its origins and all anything fans can do is hope that at some point someone steps up and actually tries to save it. D&D is falling into this same trap and just like Star Wars, by the time anyone realizes it may actually already be too late to do anything about it.
Its a bummer, I'm looking forward to my 2024 rulebook, but I suspect it might actually end up being the last D&D book, for the last edition I will ever buy. I think the next one is going to be a digital product created by people who legitimately hate me, my entire generation and the game we played for 50 years.
When evaluating claims that are pure speculation presented as fact, it is important to consider whether the person presenting this information is trustworthy or wherever they might have an ulterior motive behind their baseless speculation. Note, for example, that this person engaging in baseless speculation is on a 5e forum with a username that reads “I hate 5e and want to play any other edition of D&D forever.” I think that speaks volumes to the credibility of their baseless speculation.
It is also important to note that, not only is their post unsupported by fact, their groundless fear mongering is directly controverted by reality. Here are the facts, not necessarily for this user - I doubt someone who is here to push an agenda and clearly is okay making up their own facts cares about reality - but for anyone who might be inclined to think this user is engaging in honest discussion and might confuse their anti-5e agenda for something with substance:
1. Wizards’ staff, both the senior leadership (including the present CEO of Hasbro) and junior staff likely to take over for the next generation of leadership, have all repeatedly talked about how they are tabletop players - and many of them have talked about how they are pen and paper players. Repeatedly, these staff members have discussed how they believe preserving tabletop play is important not only for the game’s health, but for their own enjoyment of the game. Both the current and next generation of leadership have a personal vested interest in preserving tabletop, non-virtual play.
2. Wizards repeatedly has said that their intensive analytics show that tabletop play is their most common type of play. While VTTs are a large secondary revenue stream that Wizards is trying to tap into, they have a financial interest in preserving tabletop play.
3. The anti-Wizards crowd of rabble rousers put a lot of effort into making these “Wizards is going to use 5.24 to sacrifice tabletop play for VTTs.” They spent months trying to convince others of this “fact.” The reality? Now that we have the 2024 PHB, the book was explicitly designed to support tabletop and pen and paper play - it even has little warnings to prevent you from making certain choices subject to change later in character creation, explicitly to prevent players from making mistakes they’ll have to erase or white out if playing on paper. Considering the history of the game, it is likely this handbook will be the primary introduction to the game for the next 5-10 years, clearly signaling pen and paper will remain supported for at least another decade.
4. Wizards is currently riding a wave of players who are interested in the game explicitly because they saw tabletop play, either through actual plays like Critical Role or in shows like Stranger Things. Arguing that Wizards is going to change away from a model presented by this easy, effective, and often free (to them) advertising is quite silly.
5. Wizards has repeatedly discussed how local game stores are not only an important part of their revenue stream. A switch to pure digital content would be cutting out an important partner in Wizards revenue model - a partner Wizards has actively been showing an increased interest in protecting against the rise in digital sales by offering things like early access, LGS-exclusive collector edition copies of books, and increased support for at-store tabletop play. Wizards has clearly signaled their intent to support LGS’s in tabletop play; a reversal and focus exclusively on digital would run contrary to the recent trends.
And so much more.
As things presently stand, Wizards has a personal and financial interest in tabletop play and are currently and actively reaffirming their commitment to both tabletop and pen and paper play.
So, you really have to ask yourself this: What is more likely? All the present facts and trends are wrong and Wizards is going to reverse course and in an entirely uncapitalistic way are going to abandon their primary revenue stream? Or the folks who hate 5e, who are only here to push their anti-Wizards, anti-5e agenda, who already were wrong about the 2024 PHB signaling a shift away from tabletop, are engaging in the same practice doomsday prophets have done since time immemorial - “okay, so my last unsupported doomsday prediction was wrong, but listen here, when I make the exact same baseless predictions about the future, next time I will be right, so please, trust me this time?”
First and foremost, the OSR is not "Anti-5e", it's a ridiculous statement, our greatest contribution this year was ShadowDark, an OSR game for 5e fandom, for which by the way the OSR took 4 Ennie awards. Its a ridiculous statement, an attack on my character and blatant violation of the forum policy, not that I expect the moderators here to do anything about it.
More importantly and really think about this for a second. All of the "evidence" that you have provided of these so-called facts starts with some variation of "Wizards of the Coasts promises"...
I don't think I need to say more than that. This community knows what Wizards of the Coasts promises are worth.
While five minute character creation is certainly a goal one could emphasize in design, it requires making priority choices. Specifically, it requires a lack of options and customization, and will lead to, at a minimum, all low-level characters being very similar and feeling kind of disposable.
It's a design goal that one could want, but it's definitely not the only way to approach D&D.
Also, even as an experienced player with familiarity with the rules, I doubt I could get anything but roll-in-order red box D&D done in only five minutes.
Experience has taught me the opposite is true.
You can give players all the options and customization in the world but they then tend to work within the constraints of these. And two fighters using the same made available to them are no more different from one another than are two fighters with fewer or none. What makes two fighters truly different is how they are role-played and not what features and feats are at their disposal.
When players roll up characters, even rolling d6 down the line and letting the numbers inform their decisions instead of coming to the table with some grand vision of who their characters are going to be, they are forced to get creative and breathe life into whatever the numbers give them.
Players who start with a concept and who prefer to scaffold their characters around that concept tend to be tethered to the same ideas for this or that class as they tend to be going for what is going to make the most sense mechanically. One can almost predict every choice a player is going to make during character creation when the concept comes first. There is nothing wrong with doing it that way. But I personally find it predictable and dull. Flaws and anomalies are the stuff of drama and they tend to tell better stories than do perfect or near perfect characters. Highest roll is INT? Wizard perhaps? But that wizard will have a dreadfully low DEX of 4. What happened to him? Or is he just clumsy? Good STR and CON. Barbarian? That barbarian has an unusually high INT of 14. What's his story? Rolls like these tend to lead to characters with character. This approach is also vastly simpler for newcomers and it is a much more intuitive way to learn how to play for newcomers when character creation is randomized and their job is just to role-play and learn how to play as they go. To "build" a character requires familiarity enough with the rules before the game even commences to the extent no one new can even hope to do it without having read swathes of text to even arrive at any idea of what they might want to play. I get it. Character creation can almost be a game in and of itself. And it can be a lot of fun. But no actual role-playing begins until the game is underway. I love introducing newcomers to the hobby. I do it all the time. For work as well as for play. No one wants to have to read a textbook just to play a game for what might be the first and only time they get to do so. When I first started playing D&D it was really only the DM who owned the rules. That old-school approach where rules are a resource for the DM? With plays using observation and description as theirs? Give me that approach any day over one in which players are mired in the rules and it is the rules and choices informed by those rules that are what makes a character a character.
I suggest giving a game that has 0-level funnel adventures a go. You will see just how attached to characters players can become when those survivors make it through. How much those survivors develop as characters in just a single session. I personally do not use 0-level funnels. But two of my most memorable characters in recent campaigns in which I have played started life that way. A third did not begin as a 0-level character like they did. But he was still rolled randomly. I used to write backstories for my characters but have begun to wait until the first session is through before I write what is now more a vignette for any new character. I have been finding this much more rewarding when I am on the player side of the table.
Same principle as smartphones, half the planet has stopped living and spends their days scrolling on their phones, a literal zombie apocalypse and now all of a sudden people realize its a problem but the time to do something about it has long since passed.
In just a little over a decade I have watched the average commuter in my city go from burying his or her head in a book to staring at his or her phone.
Digitization of various aspects of society has its benefits. Many depend on digital services. This I can perfectly understand. But our species' overreliance on the digital is definitely a problem. It isn't as if there isn't a wealth of research into many problems arising from this overreliance.
I see nothing wrong with people wanting to or needing to play D&D online. But I am someone who does not play video games and who only plays analog games. And that is how D&D will always be run at my table.
When evaluating claims that are pure speculation presented as fact ...
You are engaging in pure speculation when you suggest those who would rather not see an analog hobby become more and more digitized are probably just bigots.
Has technology's negative impacts on minority populations never occurred to you? What it has done to their communities? To the environment within the vicinity of where they live? What online bullying has meant for LGBTQ youth? Would it be safe to assume your wholesale defense of technology must just mean you would like to see all these people suffer? Would that be a fair assessment? No less so than yours.
What you are saying here is analogous with someone saying you must just hate the environment. That it does not trouble you at all that the more and more time we spend online or using AI or whatever is detrimental to the environment. That you must want to kill the planet.
As someone who belongs to a minority ethnic group but who is also someone who reads both philosophical and ecological texts and particularly within these areas critiques of our relationship with technology and our overreliance on it and what that has done to human relationships and to the environment I find your post grossly offensive.
As someone who belongs to a minority ethnic group but who is also someone who reads both philosophical and ecological texts and particularly within these areas critiques of our relationship with technology and our overreliance on it and what that has done to human relationships and to the environment I find your post grossly offensive.
I am Asian-American. I have also travelled overseas extensively. Treating digital technology like it is some sort of Western cultural invasion is quite frankly not how we see digital tools. If anything, smartphones is embraced everywhere in Asia. Sure, the amount of smart phone manufactured has negative environmental impact. But negatively impacting human relationships though? The positives far outweighs negatives. Being able to instantly communicate and having a baseline level of knowledge via search engines is huge. Misinformation and bullying are issues, but literally every form of media has similar issues, and it is not limited to only modern smartphones and social media.
All this bashing on modern technology is no different than the bashing on newspapers, television, music, videogames, and even D&D in the past. This level of fear mongering is absolutely absurd. Some old people's dismissive attitude towards young people's use of the latest technology reeks of self-righteous ignorance. Some old people today do not seem to remember that they were once looked down upon with the same disappoint and disapproval of the previous generation.
I do not need this get-off-my-lawn type of attitude, and neither do most of us here on this platform. If technology is so distasteful to any of you, then why even bother joining the D&D Beyond community, where is literally centered around the digital tools y'all hate. I will never go full physical, it is a waste of my time and a health hazard, but I do not complain about how veteran players are too reliant on physical tools and cannot figure out how to speed up their game. Digital tools are MY lawn. Physical tools are MY lawn too. I have freaking both, so I know damn well what I am talking about. If people think the health of the soul of D&D lies in the tools people use, then they clearly have no idea what makes D&D D&D.
Is D&D Beyond the best digital lawn? I am not certain about that, and I am worried because of that. Is it better than physical lawns though? For me, hell yes.
I am Asian-American. I have also travelled overseas extensively. Treating digital technology like it is some sort of Western cultural invasion is quite frankly not how we see digital tools. If anything, smartphones is embraced everywhere in Asia. Sure, the amount of smart phone manufactured has negative environmental impact. But negatively impacting human relationships though? The positives far outweighs negatives. Being able to instantly communicate and having a baseline level of knowledge via search engines is huge. Misinformation and bullying are issues, but literally every form of media has similar issues, and it is not limited to only modern smartphones and social media.
All this bashing on modern technology is no different than the bashing on newspapers, television, music, videogames, and even D&D in the past. This level of fear mongering is absolutely absurd. Some old people's dismissive attitude towards young people's use of the latest technology reeks of self-righteous ignorance. Some old people today do not seem to remember that they were once looked down upon with the same disappoint and disapproval of the previous generation.
I do not need this get-off-my-lawn type of attitude, and neither do most of us here on this platform. If technology is so distasteful to any of you, then why even bother joining the D&D Beyond community, where is literally centered around the digital tools y'all hate. I will never go full physical, it is a waste of my time and a health hazard, but I do not complain about how veteran players are too reliant on physical tools and cannot figure out how to speed up their game. Digital tools are MY lawn. Physical tools are MY lawn too. I have freaking both, so I know damn well what I am talking about. If people think the health of the soul of D&D lies in the tools people use, then they clearly have no idea what makes D&D D&D.
Is D&D Beyond the best digital lawn? I am not certain about that, and I am worried because of that. Is it better than physical lawns though? For me, hell yes.
These forums are not the place to get in to it but exposure to certain readily available media online has caused serious problems in many otherwise remote communities.
That isn't even to go into how blatantly obvious it is that people are spending less and less time with loved ones and feel a greater sense of separation between them and their neighbours and them and the natural world. It is this separation that is the cause of so many problems in society.
And it isn't as if the greatest crisis of our time isn't the unfolding environmental disaster before us. If you want to downplay that and play a role in contributing further and further to it then by all means do so.
EDIT: You misread and misunderstood my mention of my being a minority. The poster was erroneously speculating that any critic of further and further digitizing D&D was probably just a bigot.
You are right that the benefits brought about by the internet are many. I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise. That doesn't mean critiques of our overreliance on it and what that spells for the environment or for society are not without merit. It isn't an all or nothing conversation.
Japan I believe remains the world's biggest consumer of physical books. But seeing fewer and fewer commuters in Japan read books and more of them just scroll through Instagram has been heartbreaking. You can talk about the wealth of information at our fingertips thanks to the our being able to carry the internet in our pockets. But when that luxury has made people read less and in turn become less read and less smart in the process that is not a good thing by any calculation.
Also, you will get no "get off my lawn" attitude from me: as I said:
I see nothing wrong with people wanting to or needing to play D&D online. But I am someone who does not play video games and who only plays analog games. And that is how D&D will always be run at my table.
That isn't even to go into how blatantly obvious it is that people are spending less and less time with loved ones and feel a greater sense of separation between them and their neighbours and them and the natural world. It is this separation that is the cause of so many problems in society.
And it isn't as if the greatest crisis of our time isn't the unfolding environmental disaster before us. If you want to downplay that and play a role in contributing further and further to it then by all means do so.
That is a load of absolute utter nonsense that old people use against any form of medium they are ignorant of and do not like, and people have used those exact same nonsense arguments against D&D.
D&D players just stay home all day playing pretend at a table, instead of spending time outdoors and touch grass. They only play with fellow nerds, so they do not know how to socialize with people in a real world setting like bars or festivals. They spend hours playing D&D instead of spending time with family. They are wasting time reading about games rather than reading about stuff with actual substance like the news or economics.
D&D books are made of dead trees. Those trees died for a stupid game where people who refuse to grow up, laze around the living room couch, and play pretend. Those dead trees could have served a better purpose being a house, furniture, or textbook. Smart phones may cause environmental destruction from their creation, but at least they serve more than an entertainment tool for us. They allow people to communicate, work, and be productive members of society.
You see how ridiculous bashing a medium is? People have been shit talking and being doomer gloomer about new technologies and ways to communicate throughout history, and humanity still survived despite all our advancements. Acting like the newest stuff is what causes the breakdown of society is ridiculous.
Japan I believe remains the world's biggest consumer of physical books. But seeing fewer and fewer commuters in Japan read books and more of them just scroll through Instagram has been heartbreaking. You can talk about the wealth of information at our fingertips thanks to the our being able to carry the internet in our pockets. But when that luxury has made people read less and in turn become less read and less smart in the process that is not a good thing by any calculation.
Also, you will get no "get off my lawn" attitude from me: as I said:
I see nothing wrong with people wanting to or needing to play D&D online. But I am someone who does not play video games and who only plays analog games. And that is how D&D will always be run at my table.
You are calling people who do not read books stupid. You are calling people who use smart phones stupid. That is a classic Boomer get-off-my-lawn attitude.
D&D will be fine with digital tools. If D&D and technology really bothers people who prefer physical so much, then why even be online in the first place?
Japan I believe remains the world's biggest consumer of physical books. But seeing fewer and fewer commuters in Japan read books and more of them just scroll through Instagram has been heartbreaking. You can talk about the wealth of information at our fingertips thanks to the our being able to carry the internet in our pockets. But when that luxury has made people read less and in turn become less read and less smart in the process that is not a good thing by any calculation.
Also, you will get no "get off my lawn" attitude from me: as I said:
I see nothing wrong with people wanting to or needing to play D&D online. But I am someone who does not play video games and who only plays analog games. And that is how D&D will always be run at my table.
You are calling people who do not read books stupid. You are calling people who use smart phones stupid. That is a classic Boomer get-off-my-lawn attitude.
D&D will be fine with digital tools. If D&D and technology really bothers people who prefer physical so much, then why even be online in the first place?
The ironic thing? Countless studies have shown that technology like smartphones drastically increase literacy rates and other markers of intelligence. Other studies have shown that this generation is more connected to its peers than previous ones. As should be pretty obvious, a generation where reading is their primary method of communication is good at reading; a generation that has infinite ability to just learn at their fingertips will learn; and a generation which can automatically communicate with their friends at any point will develop social skills.
Now, are there issues with the technology? Sure - technology can exacerbate all kinds of things, such as mental health issues and access to misinformation. But those problems are not specific to a generation - and, to a certain extent, those who grew up learning technological literacy are probably better equipped to avoid it than, say, the self-styled older players actively spreading misinformation, hate for anyone who is different from them, and actively gatekeeping on this thread. In fact, in response to this post I expect we will see a demonstration of this misinformation from those folks (and perhaps even posts undermining their claims as to literacy and emotional intelligence - it is not like these folks are immune to misreading and mischaracterizing posts to see what they want to see).
Given that the original thread is over a year old, not designed in the best faith, and the comments have now derailed into discussing the merits of technology, we'll be locking this thread.
Remember you can discuss what you loved about various editions and playstyles of D&D without disparaging folk who play differently than you. D&D should be about having fun, not about individuals mastery or speed of mechanics.
Where did I say I’m having any issue with the character sheet? I said it is a bald-faced lie to tell anyone nothing has changed. You admit yourself that there are changes. The character sheet is undeniably different. I find the changes manageable but how I feel about the changes is absolutely immaterial to the fact that the changes do exist. It is rude and arrogant to claim otherwise or treat others poorly for not sharing one’s opinion of the changes.
I completely understand the position, I don't agree with it even a little bit, but I understand it. I think the movement to digital gaming is completely destroying this hobby, sucking the very life out of its soul and it really marks a definitive end to the D&D franchise as we know it in my opinion. There will be a day, when we are going to be trying to figure out why things are so messed up and broken and while we will identify the shift to digital as the root cause, it will be waaaay too late to do anything about it.
Its a shame that people don't see it, but the self-destruction is as inevitable as water is wet. Not much left to do but watch it burn down.
Same principle as smartphones, half the planet has stopped living and spends their days scrolling on their phones, a literal zombie apocalypse and now all of a sudden people realize its a problem but the time to do something about it has long since passed.
My bad, I confused you with the other poster. The other poster said the characters have been changed to 6e and they are not fine with it, but they have not elaborated which changes have bothered them. I have not seen any changes that are an issue. My characters created before September 3rd still functioned like before.
The only changes I noticed are the slight reordering of the character creation process and Inspiration being changed to Heroic Inspiration. Those are undeniable changes, but I do not think those changes deserves the visceral reactions to it. It still feels like the same character sheet to me. I do not think the extreme reaction is proportional to the changes that have been made.
If Beyond went ahead and replaced all 2014 spells with 2024 spells, or something similar drastic like that, then sure, I would understand the extremely negative reaction, but I do not see that.
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Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Here is the reality: D&D has had official digital tools for over 32% of its lifetime - and unofficial digital tools for even longer. These tools have never done anything but make the game better for the community as a whole. For those who use them, they make the game more accessible to a wider range of players. They allow pen and paper players to easily search things or have access on the fly. They make it easier for people to play the parts of the game they like (regardless of what they like - number crunchy players can use digital tools to rapidly create lots of characters to test out their theories; players who don’t like crunchy systems can use them to hasten creation and get to playing. They make it easier to organize and run your campaign through various sortable systems and other in-game organizational tools. They make it easier to connect with people all over the world, so you can get a game running quicker.
And at what cost to the community? Nothing. People who want to ply pen and paper still can - hell, the new PHB is explicitly laid out in a way to make it easier to play the game in pen and paper than any previous PHB ever has been.
Here is what I think is actually happening - and why certain people are complaining about the “soul” of D&D going away. Those people are confusing correlation for causation. They see a rise in digital tools coinciding with a rise in the visibility of segments of the community they don’t like - the people who would rather play a game than crunch numbers, the people who are sick of the racism Gygax inserted in the game, the people who love a good story heavy game instead of a combat one, or whatever other silly thing they are claiming is destroying the “soul” of the game.
These “soul is dying” folks mistakenly think those groups are new, brought in by the digital toolsets. They are wrong, of course, as they so often are. After all, those groups have been here for fifty years also - but the internet has increased our access to other perspectives, allowing us to see playgroups beyond the insular ones we usually play with. So, these grognards who want to gatekeep the “soul” of the game see more people they think are wrong for the game and see more digital tools - they cannot admit to themselves that the former group was there for decades before digital tools (for that would hurt their incorrect view that their vision of the “soul” of the game is the one and only right way to play), so they then try to blame the digital tools for “creating” the players they don’t like. It’s wrong, of course, and easily disproven by reality - but in their minds, it is necessary to point the finger somewhere, since their entire view on what the game “should be” is dependent on them pretending their limited experience decades ago was the same experience everyone decades ago held.
Sorry for the post. Sat down with another DM and we worked out the issues. Wasn't trying to stir up trouble or "gaslight" anyone. My apologies to all. I will try and remove the original post.
People have been complaining about the press, newspapers, comic books, television, anime, videogames, music, internet, social media, MySpace, Facebook, TikTok, etc. for generations throughout history about how they corrupt society or are the devil's tool. And such arguments itself have been used against D&D too. Humanity and D&D will be fine. I may be worried about Beyond as an individual toolset, but I am not worried about having new digital tools.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Digital tools have existed for a very long time, hell I recall using AD&D character generators from Floppy Discs as far back as 2nd edition AD&D. I think everyone responding knows this is not what I'm talking about. Digital tools in the past have never threatened the physical product, it was in support of, not as a replacement for physical books and the game played at the table as a conversation. The goal of physical tools up to this point, which included DnD Beyond when it started was to be a reference for the table top game.
This revised edition of the game may very well be the last time we see a printed version of D&D and the concept of "playing D&D", ten years from now will be exclusively done on VTT. Gaining access to the game in any form will require a DnD Beyond Subscription where you will be nickel and dimed by microtransactions. By this time next year there will be products for D&D the role-playing game that exist exclusively on the VTT and DnD Beyond as digital releases, feats, classes, sub-classes, monsters etc... will be created, published and sold on the VTT and nowhere else. This WILL happen, its already happening. Digital exclusives will quickly turn the entire game into a digital exclusive.
I know that this does not bother many people, some, perhaps many will see it as simply a natural evolution of the game and that is fine. Perhaps this is just the way its going to be, but personally I do think this franchise has a soul. There is such a thing as the intangible spirit that exists in this game and until pretty recently there were still people even at Wizards of the Coast that were trying to protect it and ensure it survived beyond 5th edition and beyond the corporate machine, culture wars and politics. Today however, I think, at this point they have literally fired everyone who was still guarding the physical game. D&D is going the way of Star Wars, its just being rotted out from its core by people who hate it so much they want to change everything about it and they do it in the name of "pretending" to love it, even though very clearly every step they take is done out of resentment for its origins and all anything fans can do is hope that at some point someone steps up and actually tries to save it. D&D is falling into this same trap and just like Star Wars, by the time anyone realizes it may actually already be too late to do anything about it.
Its a bummer, I'm looking forward to my 2024 rulebook, but I suspect it might actually end up being the last D&D book, for the last edition I will ever buy. I think the next one is going to be a digital product created by people who legitimately hate me, my entire generation and the game we played for 50 years.
When evaluating claims that are pure speculation presented as fact, it is important to consider whether the person presenting this information is trustworthy or wherever they might have an ulterior motive behind their baseless speculation. Note, for example, that this person engaging in baseless speculation is on a 5e forum with a username that reads “I hate 5e and want to play any other edition of D&D forever.” I think that speaks volumes to the credibility of their baseless speculation.
It is also important to note that, not only is their post unsupported by fact, their groundless fear mongering is directly controverted by reality. Here are the facts, not necessarily for this user - I doubt someone who is here to push an agenda and clearly is okay making up their own facts cares about reality - but for anyone who might be inclined to think this user is engaging in honest discussion and might confuse their anti-5e agenda for something with substance:
1. Wizards’ staff, both the senior leadership (including the present CEO of Hasbro) and junior staff likely to take over for the next generation of leadership, have all repeatedly talked about how they are tabletop players - and many of them have talked about how they are pen and paper players. Repeatedly, these staff members have discussed how they believe preserving tabletop play is important not only for the game’s health, but for their own enjoyment of the game. Both the current and next generation of leadership have a personal vested interest in preserving tabletop, non-virtual play.
2. Wizards repeatedly has said that their intensive analytics show that tabletop play is their most common type of play. While VTTs are a large secondary revenue stream that Wizards is trying to tap into, they have a financial interest in preserving tabletop play.
3. The anti-Wizards crowd of rabble rousers put a lot of effort into making these “Wizards is going to use 5.24 to sacrifice tabletop play for VTTs.” They spent months trying to convince others of this “fact.” The reality? Now that we have the 2024 PHB, the book was explicitly designed to support tabletop and pen and paper play - it even has little warnings to prevent you from making certain choices subject to change later in character creation, explicitly to prevent players from making mistakes they’ll have to erase or white out if playing on paper. Considering the history of the game, it is likely this handbook will be the primary introduction to the game for the next 5-10 years, clearly signaling pen and paper will remain supported for at least another decade.
4. Wizards is currently riding a wave of players who are interested in the game explicitly because they saw tabletop play, either through actual plays like Critical Role or in shows like Stranger Things. Arguing that Wizards is going to change away from a model presented by this easy, effective, and often free (to them) advertising is quite silly.
5. Wizards has repeatedly discussed how local game stores are not only an important part of their revenue stream. A switch to pure digital content would be cutting out an important partner in Wizards revenue model - a partner Wizards has actively been showing an increased interest in protecting against the rise in digital sales by offering things like early access, LGS-exclusive collector edition copies of books, and increased support for at-store tabletop play. Wizards has clearly signaled their intent to support LGS’s in tabletop play; a reversal and focus exclusively on digital would run contrary to the recent trends.
And so much more.
As things presently stand, Wizards has a personal and financial interest in tabletop play and are currently and actively reaffirming their commitment to both tabletop and pen and paper play.
So, you really have to ask yourself this: What is more likely? All the present facts and trends are wrong and Wizards is going to reverse course and in an entirely uncapitalistic way are going to abandon their primary revenue stream? Or the folks who hate 5e, who are only here to push their anti-Wizards, anti-5e agenda, who already were wrong about the 2024 PHB signaling a shift away from tabletop, are engaging in the same practice doomsday prophets have done since time immemorial - “okay, so my last unsupported doomsday prediction was wrong, but listen here, when I make the exact same baseless predictions about the future, next time I will be right, so please, trust me this time?”
This entire paragraph is spurious nonsense at best, but I had to laugh so hard at this particular section. Star Wars is incredibly successful even with the relatively disappointing movies and one of the most common criticisms of new shows is that they stick too much to their origins. You've completely invented a reality for yourself to paint yourself as some dying breed of hero preserving the "true" core of a media franchise. It's so unbelievably silly.
First and foremost, the OSR is not "Anti-5e", it's a ridiculous statement, our greatest contribution this year was ShadowDark, an OSR game for 5e fandom, for which by the way the OSR took 4 Ennie awards. Its a ridiculous statement, an attack on my character and blatant violation of the forum policy, not that I expect the moderators here to do anything about it.
More importantly and really think about this for a second. All of the "evidence" that you have provided of these so-called facts starts with some variation of "Wizards of the Coasts promises"...
I don't think I need to say more than that. This community knows what Wizards of the Coasts promises are worth.
Experience has taught me the opposite is true.
You can give players all the options and customization in the world but they then tend to work within the constraints of these. And two fighters using the same made available to them are no more different from one another than are two fighters with fewer or none. What makes two fighters truly different is how they are role-played and not what features and feats are at their disposal.
When players roll up characters, even rolling d6 down the line and letting the numbers inform their decisions instead of coming to the table with some grand vision of who their characters are going to be, they are forced to get creative and breathe life into whatever the numbers give them.
Players who start with a concept and who prefer to scaffold their characters around that concept tend to be tethered to the same ideas for this or that class as they tend to be going for what is going to make the most sense mechanically. One can almost predict every choice a player is going to make during character creation when the concept comes first. There is nothing wrong with doing it that way. But I personally find it predictable and dull. Flaws and anomalies are the stuff of drama and they tend to tell better stories than do perfect or near perfect characters. Highest roll is INT? Wizard perhaps? But that wizard will have a dreadfully low DEX of 4. What happened to him? Or is he just clumsy? Good STR and CON. Barbarian? That barbarian has an unusually high INT of 14. What's his story? Rolls like these tend to lead to characters with character. This approach is also vastly simpler for newcomers and it is a much more intuitive way to learn how to play for newcomers when character creation is randomized and their job is just to role-play and learn how to play as they go. To "build" a character requires familiarity enough with the rules before the game even commences to the extent no one new can even hope to do it without having read swathes of text to even arrive at any idea of what they might want to play. I get it. Character creation can almost be a game in and of itself. And it can be a lot of fun. But no actual role-playing begins until the game is underway. I love introducing newcomers to the hobby. I do it all the time. For work as well as for play. No one wants to have to read a textbook just to play a game for what might be the first and only time they get to do so. When I first started playing D&D it was really only the DM who owned the rules. That old-school approach where rules are a resource for the DM? With plays using observation and description as theirs? Give me that approach any day over one in which players are mired in the rules and it is the rules and choices informed by those rules that are what makes a character a character.
I suggest giving a game that has 0-level funnel adventures a go. You will see just how attached to characters players can become when those survivors make it through. How much those survivors develop as characters in just a single session. I personally do not use 0-level funnels. But two of my most memorable characters in recent campaigns in which I have played started life that way. A third did not begin as a 0-level character like they did. But he was still rolled randomly. I used to write backstories for my characters but have begun to wait until the first session is through before I write what is now more a vignette for any new character. I have been finding this much more rewarding when I am on the player side of the table.
In just a little over a decade I have watched the average commuter in my city go from burying his or her head in a book to staring at his or her phone.
Digitization of various aspects of society has its benefits. Many depend on digital services. This I can perfectly understand. But our species' overreliance on the digital is definitely a problem. It isn't as if there isn't a wealth of research into many problems arising from this overreliance.
I see nothing wrong with people wanting to or needing to play D&D online. But I am someone who does not play video games and who only plays analog games. And that is how D&D will always be run at my table.
You are engaging in pure speculation when you suggest those who would rather not see an analog hobby become more and more digitized are probably just bigots.
Has technology's negative impacts on minority populations never occurred to you? What it has done to their communities? To the environment within the vicinity of where they live? What online bullying has meant for LGBTQ youth? Would it be safe to assume your wholesale defense of technology must just mean you would like to see all these people suffer? Would that be a fair assessment? No less so than yours.
What you are saying here is analogous with someone saying you must just hate the environment. That it does not trouble you at all that the more and more time we spend online or using AI or whatever is detrimental to the environment. That you must want to kill the planet.
As someone who belongs to a minority ethnic group but who is also someone who reads both philosophical and ecological texts and particularly within these areas critiques of our relationship with technology and our overreliance on it and what that has done to human relationships and to the environment I find your post grossly offensive.
I am Asian-American. I have also travelled overseas extensively. Treating digital technology like it is some sort of Western cultural invasion is quite frankly not how we see digital tools. If anything, smartphones is embraced everywhere in Asia. Sure, the amount of smart phone manufactured has negative environmental impact. But negatively impacting human relationships though? The positives far outweighs negatives. Being able to instantly communicate and having a baseline level of knowledge via search engines is huge. Misinformation and bullying are issues, but literally every form of media has similar issues, and it is not limited to only modern smartphones and social media.
All this bashing on modern technology is no different than the bashing on newspapers, television, music, videogames, and even D&D in the past. This level of fear mongering is absolutely absurd. Some old people's dismissive attitude towards young people's use of the latest technology reeks of self-righteous ignorance. Some old people today do not seem to remember that they were once looked down upon with the same disappoint and disapproval of the previous generation.
I do not need this get-off-my-lawn type of attitude, and neither do most of us here on this platform. If technology is so distasteful to any of you, then why even bother joining the D&D Beyond community, where is literally centered around the digital tools y'all hate. I will never go full physical, it is a waste of my time and a health hazard, but I do not complain about how veteran players are too reliant on physical tools and cannot figure out how to speed up their game. Digital tools are MY lawn. Physical tools are MY lawn too. I have freaking both, so I know damn well what I am talking about. If people think the health of the soul of D&D lies in the tools people use, then they clearly have no idea what makes D&D D&D.
Is D&D Beyond the best digital lawn? I am not certain about that, and I am worried because of that. Is it better than physical lawns though? For me, hell yes.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
These forums are not the place to get in to it but exposure to certain readily available media online has caused serious problems in many otherwise remote communities.
That isn't even to go into how blatantly obvious it is that people are spending less and less time with loved ones and feel a greater sense of separation between them and their neighbours and them and the natural world. It is this separation that is the cause of so many problems in society.
And it isn't as if the greatest crisis of our time isn't the unfolding environmental disaster before us. If you want to downplay that and play a role in contributing further and further to it then by all means do so.
EDIT: You misread and misunderstood my mention of my being a minority. The poster was erroneously speculating that any critic of further and further digitizing D&D was probably just a bigot.
You are right that the benefits brought about by the internet are many. I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise. That doesn't mean critiques of our overreliance on it and what that spells for the environment or for society are not without merit. It isn't an all or nothing conversation.
Japan I believe remains the world's biggest consumer of physical books. But seeing fewer and fewer commuters in Japan read books and more of them just scroll through Instagram has been heartbreaking. You can talk about the wealth of information at our fingertips thanks to the our being able to carry the internet in our pockets. But when that luxury has made people read less and in turn become less read and less smart in the process that is not a good thing by any calculation.
Also, you will get no "get off my lawn" attitude from me: as I said:
I see nothing wrong with people wanting to or needing to play D&D online. But I am someone who does not play video games and who only plays analog games. And that is how D&D will always be run at my table.
That is a load of absolute utter nonsense that old people use against any form of medium they are ignorant of and do not like, and people have used those exact same nonsense arguments against D&D.
D&D players just stay home all day playing pretend at a table, instead of spending time outdoors and touch grass. They only play with fellow nerds, so they do not know how to socialize with people in a real world setting like bars or festivals. They spend hours playing D&D instead of spending time with family. They are wasting time reading about games rather than reading about stuff with actual substance like the news or economics.
D&D books are made of dead trees. Those trees died for a stupid game where people who refuse to grow up, laze around the living room couch, and play pretend. Those dead trees could have served a better purpose being a house, furniture, or textbook. Smart phones may cause environmental destruction from their creation, but at least they serve more than an entertainment tool for us. They allow people to communicate, work, and be productive members of society.
You see how ridiculous bashing a medium is? People have been shit talking and being doomer gloomer about new technologies and ways to communicate throughout history, and humanity still survived despite all our advancements. Acting like the newest stuff is what causes the breakdown of society is ridiculous.
You are calling people who do not read books stupid. You are calling people who use smart phones stupid. That is a classic Boomer get-off-my-lawn attitude.
D&D will be fine with digital tools. If D&D and technology really bothers people who prefer physical so much, then why even be online in the first place?Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
The ironic thing? Countless studies have shown that technology like smartphones drastically increase literacy rates and other markers of intelligence. Other studies have shown that this generation is more connected to its peers than previous ones. As should be pretty obvious, a generation where reading is their primary method of communication is good at reading; a generation that has infinite ability to just learn at their fingertips will learn; and a generation which can automatically communicate with their friends at any point will develop social skills.
Now, are there issues with the technology? Sure - technology can exacerbate all kinds of things, such as mental health issues and access to misinformation. But those problems are not specific to a generation - and, to a certain extent, those who grew up learning technological literacy are probably better equipped to avoid it than, say, the self-styled older players actively spreading misinformation, hate for anyone who is different from them, and actively gatekeeping on this thread. In fact, in response to this post I expect we will see a demonstration of this misinformation from those folks (and perhaps even posts undermining their claims as to literacy and emotional intelligence - it is not like these folks are immune to misreading and mischaracterizing posts to see what they want to see).
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ModeratorGiven that the original thread is over a year old, not designed in the best faith, and the comments have now derailed into discussing the merits of technology, we'll be locking this thread.
Remember you can discuss what you loved about various editions and playstyles of D&D without disparaging folk who play differently than you. D&D should be about having fun, not about individuals mastery or speed of mechanics.
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