Like, I'm sure we all know on at least an esoteric level that having a high CHA doesn't mean you are attractive. We can probably even point to IRL examples of charismatic people who are also not exactly hitting it out of the park in regards to physical appearance. But I'm curious as to how many people do that in-game. Have high-CHA characters who aren't exactly physically attractive for whatever reason or, conversely, characters who are attractive but whose CHA is, like, a 12-13 at most.
Well, we all know that there's more to Cha than just physical beauty. There's manipulation, and self-confidence, and sheer force of personality. but to really get a handle on which of those is driving your high Charisma kind of depends on what your other stats are. Someone who is attentive and manipulative will have a high Cha, but will also need a high Wisdom to be able to know how and when to connect to each person for the maximum effect. Someone with a high Cha and low Wis could be a bimbo/himbo type whose pure physical beauty gets them through even though they really have nothing to back it up. Someone with a high Cha and a high Strength could be using sheer force or the threat of force to drive their Charisma. Someone with high Cha and high Intelligence could be like a lawyer using a carefully and cunningly crafted argument to convince others to follow them. Conversely, someone could be drop dead gorgeous in terms of physical beauty but still have a low Charisma if they're just an absolute boor or just a plain old a$$h0le jerk.
So a high Charisma is a high Charisma. The dice roll modifiers are the same either way. But from a purely R.P. standpoint your other stats will help you determine what is really fueling your high Charisma.
I mean, if there is another stat that would indicate 'beauty', I would think it likely CON. Since high CON usually means you're physically healthy and such which, if you take a viewpoint of 'physical attractiveness = mating viability', makes sense. I feel that might be a bit more inclined towards feminine beauty since that tends to not care about strength while masculine attractiveness does, but we're already taking a very cynical view here as to what beauty is.
In previous editions we had a 7th stay for physical attractiveness called Comeliness. It wouldn’t take much to implement it in a game if you need it. Just roll 3d6 and there’s your score. Certain races had adjustments but that seems to have gone the way of Thaco.
In previous editions we had a 7th stay for physical attractiveness called Comeliness. It wouldn’t take much to implement it in a game if you need it. Just roll 3d6 and there’s your score. Certain races had adjustments but that seems to have gone the way of Thaco.
What would the point be though? It's basically just CHA except it does less and, well, you don't even have a class that would use it as a stat. Bards, Sorcs, and locks at least use CHA; but I'm having difficulty imagining a class that would both utilize attractiveness as a main stat... and still fly under a 'PG-13' rating.
Considering there is no definitive state of beauty it is hard to answer this question. I fully admit that any example I provide can be countered, and I will not argue with a person who can find beauty in these hypotheticals. Instead I apologize in advance and I will emphasize that there is an underlying element that needs to be brought out. In no way can it just be as simple as a physical appearance; but since this is theatre of the mind the players can modify the description to focus on what individually they would find unattractive.
Examples how:
1) A warlock character who's design is inspired by the cenobites form the Hellraiser franchise 2) Create a character who is evil in alignment and focus on their consequences of their hedonistic lifestyle. 3) A sorcerer who is a hermit and doesn't care about their appearance 4) A paladin who decorates their body with symbolisms of their achievements in battle.
Again, these are not definitive. They are ideas to build off.
One more thing, it is very possible to physically attractive while having a charisma lower than a 12-13. Those are above average scores. Maybe propose you question from the opposite form: creating a physically attractive character with a low charisma and see how that built works. This might help you find the balance you are looking for.
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Like, I'm sure we all know on at least an esoteric level that having a high CHA doesn't mean you are attractive. We can probably even point to IRL examples of charismatic people who are also not exactly hitting it out of the park in regards to physical appearance. But I'm curious as to how many people do that in-game. Have high-CHA characters who aren't exactly physically attractive for whatever reason or, conversely, characters who are attractive but whose CHA is, like, a 12-13 at most.
Well, we all know that there's more to Cha than just physical beauty. There's manipulation, and self-confidence, and sheer force of personality. but to really get a handle on which of those is driving your high Charisma kind of depends on what your other stats are. Someone who is attentive and manipulative will have a high Cha, but will also need a high Wisdom to be able to know how and when to connect to each person for the maximum effect. Someone with a high Cha and low Wis could be a bimbo/himbo type whose pure physical beauty gets them through even though they really have nothing to back it up. Someone with a high Cha and a high Strength could be using sheer force or the threat of force to drive their Charisma. Someone with high Cha and high Intelligence could be like a lawyer using a carefully and cunningly crafted argument to convince others to follow them. Conversely, someone could be drop dead gorgeous in terms of physical beauty but still have a low Charisma if they're just an absolute boor or just a plain old
a$$h0lejerk.So a high Charisma is a high Charisma. The dice roll modifiers are the same either way. But from a purely R.P. standpoint your other stats will help you determine what is really fueling your high Charisma.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
I mean, if there is another stat that would indicate 'beauty', I would think it likely CON. Since high CON usually means you're physically healthy and such which, if you take a viewpoint of 'physical attractiveness = mating viability', makes sense. I feel that might be a bit more inclined towards feminine beauty since that tends to not care about strength while masculine attractiveness does, but we're already taking a very cynical view here as to what beauty is.
In previous editions we had a 7th stay for physical attractiveness called Comeliness. It wouldn’t take much to implement it in a game if you need it. Just roll 3d6 and there’s your score. Certain races had adjustments but that seems to have gone the way of Thaco.
What would the point be though? It's basically just CHA except it does less and, well, you don't even have a class that would use it as a stat. Bards, Sorcs, and locks at least use CHA; but I'm having difficulty imagining a class that would both utilize attractiveness as a main stat... and still fly under a 'PG-13' rating.
I tend to make attractive characters with low charisma, most being socially awkward, or just blunt, rude, jerks.
Considering there is no definitive state of beauty it is hard to answer this question. I fully admit that any example I provide can be countered, and I will not argue with a person who can find beauty in these hypotheticals. Instead I apologize in advance and I will emphasize that there is an underlying element that needs to be brought out. In no way can it just be as simple as a physical appearance; but since this is theatre of the mind the players can modify the description to focus on what individually they would find unattractive.
Examples how:
1) A warlock character who's design is inspired by the cenobites form the Hellraiser franchise
2) Create a character who is evil in alignment and focus on their consequences of their hedonistic lifestyle.
3) A sorcerer who is a hermit and doesn't care about their appearance
4) A paladin who decorates their body with symbolisms of their achievements in battle.
Again, these are not definitive. They are ideas to build off.
One more thing, it is very possible to physically attractive while having a charisma lower than a 12-13. Those are above average scores. Maybe propose you question from the opposite form: creating a physically attractive character with a low charisma and see how that built works. This might help you find the balance you are looking for.