As a player I have never found a problem with the gritty realism of using encumbrance limits. Its basically why pirates kept pirate maps.
Except for the part where they didn't. There was no value in burying loot, particularly as it was very rarely a chest full of coins and much more typically trade goods that would rapidly become worthless if you stuck them in the ground. Pirates took their plunder back to port, sold it, and then spent the money in short order.
And on the subject of loot, how relevant encumbrance is largely depends on what the DM hands out as loot. Nonmagical weapons and most armor aren't worth much relative to their weight, even assuming the DM rules they'll still be in good condition once you're done fighting their previous bearer to the death for them (personally I'd go with "no" just to streamline looting). For currency it's 50 coins to a pound, so a single Bag of Holding can hold up to 25,000 coins while a 10 STR player can easily handle about 4000 along with their personal kit, meaning even a dragon's hoard is fairly manageable. Magic items are both scarce and, aside from armor, fairly lightweight. The big area where encumbrance would come into play is if a DM uses things like trade goods or art objects as loot, which are a bit of a logistical headache on all sides and, in my experience, pretty uncommon as loot.
As a player I have never found a problem with the gritty realism of using encumbrance limits. Its basically why pirates kept pirate maps.
Except for the part where they didn't. There was no value in burying loot, particularly as it was very rarely a chest full of coins and much more typically trade goods that would rapidly become worthless if you stuck them in the ground. Pirates took their plunder back to port, sold it, and then spent the money in short order.
And on the subject of loot, how relevant encumbrance is largely depends on what the DM hands out as loot. Nonmagical weapons and most armor aren't worth much relative to their weight, even assuming the DM rules they'll still be in good condition once you're done fighting their previous bearer to the death for them (personally I'd go with "no" just to streamline looting). For currency it's 50 coins to a pound, so a single Bag of Holding can hold up to 25,000 coins while a 10 STR player can easily handle about 4000 along with their personal kit, meaning even a dragon's hoard is fairly manageable. Magic items are both scarce and, aside from armor, fairly lightweight. The big area where encumbrance would come into play is if a DM uses things like trade goods or art objects as loot, which are a bit of a logistical headache on all sides and, in my experience, pretty uncommon as loot.
Okay, now I want to have the party find a bunch of statues that were made by a dwarven king while he was going through an abstractionist phase. Extremely valuable to a collector, but they're also six tons of granite.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That seems like an excessively circuitous way to limit murder hobos as opposed to just telling the players to knock it off, not actually giving much in the way of rewards for killing random people, and/or dropping a massively overpowered encounter on them when someone hires other adventurers to stop the group or the local authority decides to break out the big guns.
Also, RAW valuables such as art objects are basically just meant to be directly converted into cash back in civilization. Adding extra steps is DM discretion and really not the best way to run what's typically a wrap up portion of the current arc.
So, people track their spell components religiously, but not their encumbrance? That seems so counter intuitive, before these polls I would have figured it to be in reverse.
Well, most people use spell focuses. A lot of the time, I don't bother checking up on what characters have, or even what is in their hands. If you're talking about items with cost etc...kind of? If I can think of something interesting to do with it...like a quest or something...then I'll get them to do that quest or whatever and then move on. If I can't, then I just chuck them one and move on.
To give two examples. My wife accidentally killed seven civilians. Her character discovered a spell that will bring them back, in exchange for ridiculously expensive diamonds. So, I'm making a module where she has to go hunt the seven diamonds. On the other hand, in my larger group, we were playing mid-session and they opened a chest and one of the guys says "...and we find a diamond worth 50gp?". I asked why that in particular, and he responded that he'd taken Chromatic Orb but lacked the diamond. I'd planned on a few gp, but since between the module and their personal quests the campaign was already going to be pretty rammed so I didn't need another twist for it, I just said "Sure,.you find a diamond worth 50gp, go knock yourself out".
We don't track spell components religiously. I'll use the flavourful ones to put twists into campaigns, and the rest just get handwaved anyway by throwaway lines. Encumbrance, for us, is the opposite; it's either there or it's not so it's not easy to handwave away when it's interfering with fun (most most of the time) and hard to bring in when I think it'll add to the game (rarely). Even if I do want it to be an issue and it's not been formally added to the game, I can easily add temporarily. If they're hauling a lot of stuff, I just narrate that they're struggling under its weight and the long journey, and that inn looks real inviting right now...players tend to react well to that.
Encumbrance is, in my experience, easier to keep out and invite at need, while spell components are easier to keep in and to kick out as needed.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
We just use common sense. We can't carry 15 sets of armor, 15 short swords, etc.
At some point, near the end of Tier 1, a bag of holding is acquired. For visualization purposes, we say a bag of holding is the equivalent to the interior of a small SUV. A Ford Bronco Sport has an interior volume of 65.2 cubic feet. The Bag of Holding is 64 cubic feet. For some reason that really helped our group to understand the dimensions and limitatiions.
We just use common sense. We can't carry 15 sets of armor, 15 short swords, etc.
At some point, near the end of Tier 1, a bag of holding is acquired. For visualization purposes, we say a bag of holding is the equivalent to the interior of a small SUV. A Ford Bronco Sport has an interior volume of 65.2 cubic feet. The Bag of Holding is 64 cubic feet. For some reason that really helped our group to understand the dimensions and limitatiions.
That is a really helpful point of reference. Thanks.
We just use common sense. We can't carry 15 sets of armor, 15 short swords, etc.
At some point, near the end of Tier 1, a bag of holding is acquired. For visualization purposes, we say a bag of holding is the equivalent to the interior of a small SUV. A Ford Bronco Sport has an interior volume of 65.2 cubic feet. The Bag of Holding is 64 cubic feet. For some reason that really helped our group to understand the dimensions and limitatiions.
Tracking encumbrance is pointless, at low levels you don't have enough stuff to matter, and at mid/high levels just buy bag of holding, handy haversack, etc. It really only exists to deter the most ridiculous player hoarding tactics of trying to take literally everything that isn't nailed down
That just isn't true with varient encumberance, at least if you want to wear medium armor. Take for example a cleric, Scale mail (chain shirt is not startign equipment) weighs 45lb so if you dumped strength to 8 you are encumbered with that and nothing else. Depends a bit on options but a fairly standard starting equipment weighs 62lb so the cleric needs to either have 13+ strength or leave some of his equipment behind. Tht is before you find any booty, and published adventures are full of finding "a finely carved statue worth 50gp and weighting 20lb and a chest containing 14 gold pieces, 76 silver pieces and 283 copper pieces". In reality you probably want 15 oir 16 strength
In the poll not tracking encumbernce is not given as an option and I have played tables with that. Stansdard encumberance does stop the hoarding of everything and I think it works well. Varient encumberance makes it almost scale mail / half plate build very MAD as they need high strength and dex alnfg with con and often a spell casting stat. It also makes other classes liable to put a 10 or 12 in strength, even with basic encumberance int is the most often dumped stat with variant encomberance you are almost forced that way.
Broadly speaking, if I'm going to use encumbrance at all, I'll use variant, because basic encumbrance is enough bookkeeping to be annoying while not really being relevant.
I had considered putting, “What’s Encumbrance?” into the Poll choices, but decided against it as the main point of the poll was to be confined to those that used it at all. Encumbrance has always been a part of games that I played, and some have (not unwisely) also tried to enforce dealing with the size of items as well (no carrying Ballistas). I can’t recall the word that was used when dealing with awkward sizes and shapes. Simultaneously, the higher level you got in games, tracking weight was toned down. Hell, I remember times where Bags of Holding and Portable Holes basically opened up into infinite demiplanes where you could “store” armies. There was actually a pretty funny story arc about that in a comic book called Knights of the Dinner Table. I think the idea of a Bag World is far from being unique.
If you need heavy armor you need strength. Dex bonuses are removed with heavy armor so why make that one the higher? If you need heavy armor your dump stats should be int and or charisma.
But in the end no stat is a real dump stat. It would be nice to start with all 18's. But a bit boring after a while.
If you need heavy armor you need strength. Dex bonuses are removed with heavy armor so why make that one the higher? If you need heavy armor your dump stats should be int and or charisma.
But in the end no stat is a real dump stat. It would be nice to start with all 18's. But a bit boring after a while.
Why not make Dexterity a dump stat with a heavy armor build?
If you need heavy armor you need strength. Dex bonuses are removed with heavy armor so why make that one the higher? If you need heavy armor your dump stats should be int and or charisma.
But in the end no stat is a real dump stat. It would be nice to start with all 18's. But a bit boring after a while.
Why not make Dexterity a dump stat with a heavy armor build?
Taking penalties to initiative and Dex saves tends to be painful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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Except for the part where they didn't. There was no value in burying loot, particularly as it was very rarely a chest full of coins and much more typically trade goods that would rapidly become worthless if you stuck them in the ground. Pirates took their plunder back to port, sold it, and then spent the money in short order.
And on the subject of loot, how relevant encumbrance is largely depends on what the DM hands out as loot. Nonmagical weapons and most armor aren't worth much relative to their weight, even assuming the DM rules they'll still be in good condition once you're done fighting their previous bearer to the death for them (personally I'd go with "no" just to streamline looting). For currency it's 50 coins to a pound, so a single Bag of Holding can hold up to 25,000 coins while a 10 STR player can easily handle about 4000 along with their personal kit, meaning even a dragon's hoard is fairly manageable. Magic items are both scarce and, aside from armor, fairly lightweight. The big area where encumbrance would come into play is if a DM uses things like trade goods or art objects as loot, which are a bit of a logistical headache on all sides and, in my experience, pretty uncommon as loot.
Okay, now I want to have the party find a bunch of statues that were made by a dwarven king while he was going through an abstractionist phase. Extremely valuable to a collector, but they're also six tons of granite.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Art is hard to flog off. You have to get it to a large city and find a dealer who is willing to sell "found" goods.
But it can be done and is a nice way to limit the profit from murder hobo's.
Its also a great way for a good thief to make good cash since a painting is far lighter than the gold it could be worth.
That seems like an excessively circuitous way to limit murder hobos as opposed to just telling the players to knock it off, not actually giving much in the way of rewards for killing random people, and/or dropping a massively overpowered encounter on them when someone hires other adventurers to stop the group or the local authority decides to break out the big guns.
Also, RAW valuables such as art objects are basically just meant to be directly converted into cash back in civilization. Adding extra steps is DM discretion and really not the best way to run what's typically a wrap up portion of the current arc.
Well, most people use spell focuses. A lot of the time, I don't bother checking up on what characters have, or even what is in their hands. If you're talking about items with cost etc...kind of? If I can think of something interesting to do with it...like a quest or something...then I'll get them to do that quest or whatever and then move on. If I can't, then I just chuck them one and move on.
To give two examples. My wife accidentally killed seven civilians. Her character discovered a spell that will bring them back, in exchange for ridiculously expensive diamonds. So, I'm making a module where she has to go hunt the seven diamonds. On the other hand, in my larger group, we were playing mid-session and they opened a chest and one of the guys says "...and we find a diamond worth 50gp?". I asked why that in particular, and he responded that he'd taken Chromatic Orb but lacked the diamond. I'd planned on a few gp, but since between the module and their personal quests the campaign was already going to be pretty rammed so I didn't need another twist for it, I just said "Sure,.you find a diamond worth 50gp, go knock yourself out".
We don't track spell components religiously. I'll use the flavourful ones to put twists into campaigns, and the rest just get handwaved anyway by throwaway lines. Encumbrance, for us, is the opposite; it's either there or it's not so it's not easy to handwave away when it's interfering with fun (most most of the time) and hard to bring in when I think it'll add to the game (rarely). Even if I do want it to be an issue and it's not been formally added to the game, I can easily add temporarily. If they're hauling a lot of stuff, I just narrate that they're struggling under its weight and the long journey, and that inn looks real inviting right now...players tend to react well to that.
Encumbrance is, in my experience, easier to keep out and invite at need, while spell components are easier to keep in and to kick out as needed.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I typically do not worry about whether or not players keep a list of what they are carrying.
We go on the assumption when they are doing a crawl that they have basic items at all times.
rope, grapple, climbing gear, food, water, etc.
If they want to have something very specific then they need to get and write it in.
When traveling they will typically have a pack centaur or some such to carry tents and bigger items.
We use basic encumbrance rules for simplicity's sake as we rarely bother with that unless it's excessive.
We just use common sense. We can't carry 15 sets of armor, 15 short swords, etc.
At some point, near the end of Tier 1, a bag of holding is acquired. For visualization purposes, we say a bag of holding is the equivalent to the interior of a small SUV. A Ford Bronco Sport has an interior volume of 65.2 cubic feet. The Bag of Holding is 64 cubic feet. For some reason that really helped our group to understand the dimensions and limitatiions.
That is a really helpful point of reference. Thanks.
Have my like. This is fabulous.
the group iam in use a very loose Encumbrance rule set
which is as long as it not unreasonable you can carry it (E.G. no carrying 7 grate weapons)
He who fight and runaway live to fight another day
I think the character sheet tracks it for you no?
I track encumbrance EXCEPT for money. Sometimes I think I should because then they will have to figure out how to haul 12,000 gp.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
That just isn't true with varient encumberance, at least if you want to wear medium armor. Take for example a cleric, Scale mail (chain shirt is not startign equipment) weighs 45lb so if you dumped strength to 8 you are encumbered with that and nothing else. Depends a bit on options but a fairly standard starting equipment weighs 62lb so the cleric needs to either have 13+ strength or leave some of his equipment behind. Tht is before you find any booty, and published adventures are full of finding "a finely carved statue worth 50gp and weighting 20lb and a chest containing 14 gold pieces, 76 silver pieces and 283 copper pieces". In reality you probably want 15 oir 16 strength
In the poll not tracking encumbernce is not given as an option and I have played tables with that. Stansdard encumberance does stop the hoarding of everything and I think it works well. Varient encumberance makes it almost scale mail / half plate build very MAD as they need high strength and dex alnfg with con and often a spell casting stat. It also makes other classes liable to put a 10 or 12 in strength, even with basic encumberance int is the most often dumped stat with variant encomberance you are almost forced that way.
Broadly speaking, if I'm going to use encumbrance at all, I'll use variant, because basic encumbrance is enough bookkeeping to be annoying while not really being relevant.
I had considered putting, “What’s Encumbrance?” into the Poll choices, but decided against it as the main point of the poll was to be confined to those that used it at all. Encumbrance has always been a part of games that I played, and some have (not unwisely) also tried to enforce dealing with the size of items as well (no carrying Ballistas). I can’t recall the word that was used when dealing with awkward sizes and shapes. Simultaneously, the higher level you got in games, tracking weight was toned down. Hell, I remember times where Bags of Holding and Portable Holes basically opened up into infinite demiplanes where you could “store” armies. There was actually a pretty funny story arc about that in a comic book called Knights of the Dinner Table. I think the idea of a Bag World is far from being unique.
In the games I've played we turned encumbrance off. (which I'm glad about, STR is my dump stat xD)
As for spell components, so far I only played a Druid with a wooden raven necklace as spell focus.
Which is why encumbrance should be in effect in some form.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If you need heavy armor you need strength. Dex bonuses are removed with heavy armor so why make that one the higher?
If you need heavy armor your dump stats should be int and or charisma.
But in the end no stat is a real dump stat. It would be nice to start with all 18's. But a bit boring after a while.
Why not make Dexterity a dump stat with a heavy armor build?
Taking penalties to initiative and Dex saves tends to be painful.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.