Hi! I could really use some advice. I'm a player in a 5e game, and last week, I used a Speed potion on my level 10 Fighter / level 4 Rogue Kobold for the first time. We ended the game mid-combat, so when we begin again, I want to be on my toes. I have a habit of going into combat with what I think is a good plan and the DM informing me that my bad take on the rules has once again cost me and the rest of my party plenty. I was hoping to get some straight talk about what I can and can't do while I am still on Haste effects.
We're up against a very large army of Orkus cultists and a few fiendish friends. They've pissed my little kobold off by kidnapping two children under our care to sacrifice. Now, I have a nifty short sword that allows me to cast antimagic field once per day, but I'm thinking it would be best to use this AFTER I piss off the BBEG significantly and towards the end of my Potion of Speed. This will be her first up-close-and-personal with Tucker, I want to do something... insulting. Something that will irritate her into making a mistake.
I am under a Bless at the beginning of the round. It's almost exactly 60' to the BBEG, which is my movement rate x2 per Haste rules. There won't be any allies near the BBEG to give me Pack Tactics, but I do have the following maneuvers: Trip Attack, Riposte, Commander's Strike, Disarming Attack, Parry, Distracting Strike, and Evasive Footwork. I also have the tactic Called Strike. (My fighting style is Protection-- not doing much for me or anyone else here as I'll be the first one to reach her in melee distance.)
What I want to do is book it to the BBEG, attack her once with my sneak attack (my damage isn't all that interesting-- I am a Poisoner with some potent stuff on me, but the BBEG seems undead-- there's a big hole in her chest), and then, do some unbalancing stuff to knock her off her game, and then hide. I want to do it in a way that gets under her skin.
Movement: 60'
Action 1: Disarming strike. If she has a weapon, wand, or a talisman in her hands, I want to liberate that.
Action 2: Fast Hands. The second I knock whatever-it-is out of her hands, I want to grab it with a Sleight of Hands check. This trick is bound to grumpify my DM, but I'm hoping he'll appreciate the inventiveness of this. Plus, this is something I should have done with a creature I fought a few weeks back, so it's a lesson I learned.
Action 3: (Here's the tricky part.) Can I use Cunning Action to move out of the line of sight? I would only need 30' of movement here, as there's a big altar to Orkus next to her I can slip around and then regain my Stealth. But do I get 60'?
There's a good chance that BBEG is unarmed and casting spells-- in which case I would do an attack, a Trip Attack (can't hurt to knock her down before running), hit her again (prone), and then evading LoS behind the altar.
Does anyone have any recommendations, or see any flaws in my idea?
Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.
When the spell ends, the target can't move or take actions until after its next turn, as a wave of lethargy sweeps over it.
Your Fighter gives you 2 attacks on your action. Your potion of speed gives you an additional action (1 weapon attack) -or- dash/disengage/hide/use object. You also still have a bonus action - what is your subclass in rogue? I'm guessing thief but I'm not sure.
60 feet is your normal movement now under the effect of haste. Closing that distance is fine.
Action One - Multiattack
Attack 1 - You could attack (disarm or trip) just be aware that your DM may have given the BBEG some legendary resistances and even if it doesn't succeed the saving throw, could choose to succeed - which is fine, burns 1 of those legendary resistances. I would go with a tripping attack first.
Attack 2 - at advantage (prone) apply sneak attack, apply disarming attack. If there is nothing to disarm, and trip failed - go for trip again. If Trip landed first attack, maybe a distracting attack so your next ally attack will have advantage even if the BBEG stands up before they go.
Thus ends Action 1.
Bonus Action - Cunning Action .. steal that staff. If there was nothing to disarm and you want to steal, steal the arcane focus... so nasty. A caster without their arcane focus is majorly hosed. Be prepared for your DM to wiggle here, maybe make it a contested skill check, or say you needed to roll a perception check.
Fast Hands
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves’ tools to disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an Object action.
Thus ends Action 1.
Action 2 (1 attack only, OR - use object, disengage/hide/dash) Here is where you will have to make a choice. Do you disengage, with no movement? To move up to 60 ft you are going to need to use the DASH option and risk an opportunity attack against you? If so, you won't be able to HIDE or DISENGAGE. However, if the BBEG is prone, the attack would be at disadvantage and your AC is +2... You can still reaction Uncanny Dodge even if it lands for half damage. If it is a caster without Warcaster Feat, it will only have a melee attack, or unarmed strike if you have their weapon... AND, you could always burn Evasive Footwork to up your AC.
At the start of your next turn you could Bonus Action Hide, attack twice, and still have the hasted action to Hide again, as well as having a full 60 feet of movement to burn.
Yes...but usually Dash is an Action, and so is Attack, so usually they're mutually exclusive - you can take one but not the other. Make sure that you have a way of performing two Actions in one turn (Eg Action Surge), convert one into a Bonus Action or otherwise do both in the same turn, or you won't be able to...well...do both an Dash and an Attack to break up the Dash.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I just realized that I'm doing two different Action types as I move. Initially, I'm just moving (or Dashing, if I want to have another 60 feet of movement after I attack). But once I attack, to avoid the wallop the BBEG will likely give me, I need to use Disengage, which requires an action of its own.
With that in mind, I'm going to vet the whole plan with my DM after the BBEG has her actions on the turn (she's first) and before my turn (I'm sixth).
Here's the plan:
Action 1: Dash action (first half) to put myself in range of the BBEG
Action 2: Disarm or Trip Attack on BBEG
Action 3 (Haste): Yoink (Sleight of Hand) or Second attack on prone BBEG
Action Surge: Finish movement with Disengage and get out of BBEG's line of sight, where I can regain Stealth on my next turn and have cover.
My DM can help me simplify in the way they think is best. There's a chance that DM tells me 'you can't disengage on Dash movement'-- and that's totally fair.
Maybe I don't need to do the Dash at all if I'm moving 60' (normal movement doubled for Haste) and then acting, and using an Action Surge for additional movement?
If you disarm, and trip the baddie .. they are prone (diss adv on AO unarmed melee), so unless they have the war caster feat are you really worried about needing to disengage?
Your speed is 60ft (A dash action either from an action, or your cunning act as a bonus will give you another 60ft)
If you really want to focus on stealing something from them you can....
1) Move to target 60ft
2) First Action : Multi Attack (fighter)
- 2 attacks
3) Action Surge : Multi Attack
- 2 attacks
4) Bonus Action: Fast Hands - assuming you have managed to trip and disarm with the above 4 attacks
- Steel the weapon/focus .... DM may not allow saying you don't control the space the item is in, or demand a contested roll. If so you can dash here and use the Haste Action for one more extra attack before you move (cuss 5 is better than 4) or you can use your haste to dash out, and save your bonus to hide.
3) Haste Action
- Dash - move 60 ft break LOS : will give up an AO to target, but they are prone and unarmed... so disadvantage punch against your AC+2(haste) from a spell caster that uses up their reaction... fair trade
Note: If you try and trip before trying the disarm you'll get that advantage sooner. And you'll only get one sneak attack damage roll.
If you disarm, and trip the baddie .. they are prone (diss adv on AO unarmed melee), so unless they have the war caster feat are you really worried about needing to disengage?
She's not alone-- to engage her, I have to be in melee range of at least one more, possibly 2.
I'm not sure how WOTC would rule on it, but I'm pretty confident that the DM will say I can only use one Battle Master Maneuver in a turn. The Trip Attack is only being suggested if there's nothing I'd rather disarm... in that case, she'll spend the turn righting herself and I can come right back and stabby stab!
Many maneuvers enhance an attack in some way. You can use only one maneuver per attack.
There are plenty of discussion threads you can point to and evidence from the book on the multiple BM per turn if it helps, but if you can't do it you can't /shrug
But yeah you cna use your haste/bonus action to get a dissengage and dash combo out of there. Should still get a nice 4 attacks and have plenty of chance to piss off, taunt, and insult said bad guys. Its a great opener, but it burns through a lot of our resources (action surge, haste potion, sup dice) so its quite resonable balnce thing. Lots more borken combos, so I would hope the DM isn't thinking they need to nerf it or restrcit it. You built a char for a single round dump ... got let you do that every now and then.
Hi! I could really use some advice. I'm a player in a 5e game, and last week, I used a Speed potion on my level 10 Fighter / level 4 Rogue Kobold for the first time. We ended the game mid-combat, so when we begin again, I want to be on my toes. I have a habit of going into combat with what I think is a good plan and the DM informing me that my bad take on the rules has once again cost me and the rest of my party plenty. I was hoping to get some straight talk about what I can and can't do while I am still on Haste effects.
We're up against a very large army of Orkus cultists and a few fiendish friends. They've pissed my little kobold off by kidnapping two children under our care to sacrifice. Now, I have a nifty short sword that allows me to cast antimagic field once per day, but I'm thinking it would be best to use this AFTER I piss off the BBEG significantly and towards the end of my Potion of Speed. This will be her first up-close-and-personal with Tucker, I want to do something... insulting. Something that will irritate her into making a mistake.
I am under a Bless at the beginning of the round. It's almost exactly 60' to the BBEG, which is my movement rate x2 per Haste rules. There won't be any allies near the BBEG to give me Pack Tactics, but I do have the following maneuvers: Trip Attack, Riposte, Commander's Strike, Disarming Attack, Parry, Distracting Strike, and Evasive Footwork. I also have the tactic Called Strike. (My fighting style is Protection-- not doing much for me or anyone else here as I'll be the first one to reach her in melee distance.)
What I want to do is book it to the BBEG, attack her once with my sneak attack (my damage isn't all that interesting-- I am a Poisoner with some potent stuff on me, but the BBEG seems undead-- there's a big hole in her chest), and then, do some unbalancing stuff to knock her off her game, and then hide. I want to do it in a way that gets under her skin.
Movement: 60'
Action 1: Disarming strike. If she has a weapon, wand, or a talisman in her hands, I want to liberate that.
Action 2: Fast Hands. The second I knock whatever-it-is out of her hands, I want to grab it with a Sleight of Hands check. This trick is bound to grumpify my DM, but I'm hoping he'll appreciate the inventiveness of this. Plus, this is something I should have done with a creature I fought a few weeks back, so it's a lesson I learned.
Action 3: (Here's the tricky part.) Can I use Cunning Action to move out of the line of sight? I would only need 30' of movement here, as there's a big altar to Orkus next to her I can slip around and then regain my Stealth. But do I get 60'?
There's a good chance that BBEG is unarmed and casting spells-- in which case I would do an attack, a Trip Attack (can't hurt to knock her down before running), hit her again (prone), and then evading LoS behind the altar.
Does anyone have any recommendations, or see any flaws in my idea?
Your Fighter gives you 2 attacks on your action. Your potion of speed gives you an additional action (1 weapon attack) -or- dash/disengage/hide/use object. You also still have a bonus action - what is your subclass in rogue? I'm guessing thief but I'm not sure.
60 feet is your normal movement now under the effect of haste. Closing that distance is fine.
Action One - Multiattack
Attack 1 - You could attack (disarm or trip) just be aware that your DM may have given the BBEG some legendary resistances and even if it doesn't succeed the saving throw, could choose to succeed - which is fine, burns 1 of those legendary resistances. I would go with a tripping attack first.
Attack 2 - at advantage (prone) apply sneak attack, apply disarming attack. If there is nothing to disarm, and trip failed - go for trip again. If Trip landed first attack, maybe a distracting attack so your next ally attack will have advantage even if the BBEG stands up before they go.
Thus ends Action 1.
Bonus Action - Cunning Action .. steal that staff. If there was nothing to disarm and you want to steal, steal the arcane focus... so nasty. A caster without their arcane focus is majorly hosed. Be prepared for your DM to wiggle here, maybe make it a contested skill check, or say you needed to roll a perception check.
Thus ends Action 1.
Action 2 (1 attack only, OR - use object, disengage/hide/dash) Here is where you will have to make a choice. Do you disengage, with no movement? To move up to 60 ft you are going to need to use the DASH option and risk an opportunity attack against you? If so, you won't be able to HIDE or DISENGAGE. However, if the BBEG is prone, the attack would be at disadvantage and your AC is +2... You can still reaction Uncanny Dodge even if it lands for half damage. If it is a caster without Warcaster Feat, it will only have a melee attack, or unarmed strike if you have their weapon... AND, you could always burn Evasive Footwork to up your AC.
At the start of your next turn you could Bonus Action Hide, attack twice, and still have the hasted action to Hide again, as well as having a full 60 feet of movement to burn.
Can I split a Dash before and after an attack?
Yes, you can split your movement.
Yes...but usually Dash is an Action, and so is Attack, so usually they're mutually exclusive - you can take one but not the other. Make sure that you have a way of performing two Actions in one turn (Eg Action Surge), convert one into a Bonus Action or otherwise do both in the same turn, or you won't be able to...well...do both an Dash and an Attack to break up the Dash.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I just realized that I'm doing two different Action types as I move. Initially, I'm just moving (or Dashing, if I want to have another 60 feet of movement after I attack). But once I attack, to avoid the wallop the BBEG will likely give me, I need to use Disengage, which requires an action of its own.
With that in mind, I'm going to vet the whole plan with my DM after the BBEG has her actions on the turn (she's first) and before my turn (I'm sixth).
Here's the plan:
My DM can help me simplify in the way they think is best. There's a chance that DM tells me 'you can't disengage on Dash movement'-- and that's totally fair.
Maybe I don't need to do the Dash at all if I'm moving 60' (normal movement doubled for Haste) and then acting, and using an Action Surge for additional movement?
If you disarm, and trip the baddie .. they are prone (diss adv on AO unarmed melee), so unless they have the war caster feat are you really worried about needing to disengage?
You have:
2: Actions (action surge), 1: Bonus Action, 1: Haste Action
Your speed is 60ft (A dash action either from an action, or your cunning act as a bonus will give you another 60ft)
If you really want to focus on stealing something from them you can....
1) Move to target 60ft
2) First Action : Multi Attack (fighter)
- 2 attacks
3) Action Surge : Multi Attack
- 2 attacks
4) Bonus Action: Fast Hands - assuming you have managed to trip and disarm with the above 4 attacks
- Steel the weapon/focus .... DM may not allow saying you don't control the space the item is in, or demand a contested roll. If so you can dash here and use the Haste Action for one more extra attack before you move (cuss 5 is better than 4) or you can use your haste to dash out, and save your bonus to hide.
3) Haste Action
- Dash - move 60 ft break LOS : will give up an AO to target, but they are prone and unarmed... so disadvantage punch against your AC+2(haste) from a spell caster that uses up their reaction... fair trade
Note: If you try and trip before trying the disarm you'll get that advantage sooner. And you'll only get one sneak attack damage roll.
She's not alone-- to engage her, I have to be in melee range of at least one more, possibly 2.
I'm not sure how WOTC would rule on it, but I'm pretty confident that the DM will say I can only use one Battle Master Maneuver in a turn. The Trip Attack is only being suggested if there's nothing I'd rather disarm... in that case, she'll spend the turn righting herself and I can come right back and stabby stab!
There are plenty of discussion threads you can point to and evidence from the book on the multiple BM per turn if it helps, but if you can't do it you can't /shrug
But yeah you cna use your haste/bonus action to get a dissengage and dash combo out of there. Should still get a nice 4 attacks and have plenty of chance to piss off, taunt, and insult said bad guys. Its a great opener, but it burns through a lot of our resources (action surge, haste potion, sup dice) so its quite resonable balnce thing. Lots more borken combos, so I would hope the DM isn't thinking they need to nerf it or restrcit it. You built a char for a single round dump ... got let you do that every now and then.