Two of my players just sold their soul to the devils easily as if they have a plan to counter it. The deal was for him to help them in hell and get their soul as soon as they finish talking to one of the archdevils https://vidmate****/.
Are they thinking of killing the devil or playing with the words like "we still didnt finish talking to the archdevil"? I'm confused.
I mean ... can they just talk to someone else? Like, the contract states 'you get our souls as soon as we've finished talking to Bladderboil the Archdevil!' But instead, they talk to his colleague Boilbladder (also an archdevil), for the same result, thus ... avoiding the contract rather elegantly.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
How did they go about selling their souls? Did the devil just say I can get you in to see the archdevil but I want your souls as payment? Was there a contract invovled? Did they make any skill checks? Did they specify a specific idividual by name only? Did they have very specific terms for the contract to be complete?
Should they get out of the contract with their souls intact (as Acromos hghlilghted) then this doesn;t mean they are home free, the Devil they made the deal with will likely become their enemy and attempt to collect on the deal, for instance, the devil may have somone masquarade as a beggar, the party ask the beggar for directions and before the party go on their way the beggar says to ask for him if they need any more information...and his name is (insert devil name)..piff, paff, poof...the devil has the contract completed and the players lose their souls.
Devils are consumate deal makers and have plots within plots and plans a, b, c d etc. Just because the players out smart the devil on one occasion does not mean they have won, it just means the devil resorts to another plan, there may well be various small print clauses the player characters have not reaslised.
This also might be treated as a game by the Devil, maybe the mortals outsmarting it are just the diversion it needed to enjoy its infernal exsistance again so further meeting do not need to be deadly encounters but something the players might need to bear in mind when roleplaying, especially if they are haggling with npc's.
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I mean, if you’re the DM then it’s ultimately up to you what will work for getting out of the bargain. Typically the devils have the upper hand in playing exact words/semantics games with the contracts, with ambiguity typically just being answered with “you should have been more specific”. Killing the one they made the deal with might work, or the debt might just be inherited by their superior. Sometimes it’s reflected by a physical MacGuffin you can destroy to end the deal, though of course that’s rarely a simple and easy task.
Really you can do whatever you want, but I’d strongly recommend putting together a game plan for how it’s going to work. Might want to talk with the players too, since it sounds like they have a plan in mind.
I mean ... can they just talk to someone else? Like, the contract states 'you get our souls as soon as we've finished talking to Bladderboil the Archdevil!' But instead, they talk to his colleague Boilbladder (also an archdevil), for the same result, thus ... avoiding the contract rather elegantly.
I'm thinking they could try that, but a well-played devil would probably find a way to trick them into fulfilling it anyway - perhaps by having the Archdevil disguise himself as another NPC or by creating some means of transmitting their voices and initiating a conversation.
I'm thinking they could try that, but a well-played devil would probably find a way to trick them into fulfilling it anyway - perhaps by having the Archdevil disguise himself as another NPC or by creating some means of transmitting their voices and initiating a conversation.
Well - yea, but that assumes a level of friendly cooperation among the devils I find doubtful. Sure they're lawful, but I'm not convinced that lawful applies to some other devil getting swindled. Also, the players are adhering to the strictest wording of the contract.
I think for one devil to help another requires specific personal benefits. And also, since I'm sure devil A will laugh his horny butt off, it'll be difficult for devil B to ask for help.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Running devils and diabolical contracts can be very fun, but also very challenging. You could create an epic book based purely around the signing of a single contract and the efforts to escape it. Honestly, I feel we need more information from you on the details: was this a purely oral contract done on a whim, with flimsy language? Did you think it out ahead of time and create the whole thing, nuts to bolts, having the players sign it afterwards? What exactly was said, by either the Devil or the contract? I’ll also state that diabolical contracts should be expected to stand up to review by a combined jury of the angelic choirs and infernal bureaucracy. The angels don’t have to like it so long as they can agree it’s legal. A Devil found guilty of breaking their own contract should be brutally punished and even demoted on the spot, preferably in front of the Mortal they wronged. Knowing this, it would take a lot for a Devil to offer a contract it looked on as being less solid than adamant. Typical loopholes to contracts would involve another contract by an outside party (I win, he gets his soul back. I lose, both of us are damned). A contract itself should be one of the most well written pieces of paper ever. If you have the option, check in with someone that’s spent some time reading legal contracts. My parents were looking to sell their house and the land that it was on and they got what looked like a great offer. In reviewing it with their lawyer, it turned out that the proffer allowed the company a great deal of time prior to any commitment and action on the property without even locking them into the purchase. And so long as the contract was active no one else could make any offers (something like that). Naturally, they turned it down.
Random item, but the one time I offered my Player’s a diabolical contract, it was 9 pages long (for reasons) but included fine print at the bottom of each page that at times referenced other parts of the contract and just once referenced an article that was only available to view in a distant library. And that separate but included article was how I got them.
Since Devils are Lawful, and contracts are written and signed in blood usually. I would have done the contract a head of time, made a legal document based on an actual contract for services, and then had the players sign for their characters with a red pen. And then give them a copy. And if they broke the contract I would send a Marut after them.
Two of my players just sold their soul to the devils easily as if they have a plan to counter it. The deal was for him to help them in hell and get their soul as soon as they finish talking to one of the archdevils https://vidmate****/.
Are they thinking of killing the devil or playing with the words like "we still didnt finish talking to the archdevil"? I'm confused.
I mean ... can they just talk to someone else? Like, the contract states 'you get our souls as soon as we've finished talking to Bladderboil the Archdevil!' But instead, they talk to his colleague Boilbladder (also an archdevil), for the same result, thus ... avoiding the contract rather elegantly.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
WIth my DM cap on:
How did they go about selling their souls? Did the devil just say I can get you in to see the archdevil but I want your souls as payment? Was there a contract invovled? Did they make any skill checks? Did they specify a specific idividual by name only? Did they have very specific terms for the contract to be complete?
Should they get out of the contract with their souls intact (as Acromos hghlilghted) then this doesn;t mean they are home free, the Devil they made the deal with will likely become their enemy and attempt to collect on the deal, for instance, the devil may have somone masquarade as a beggar, the party ask the beggar for directions and before the party go on their way the beggar says to ask for him if they need any more information...and his name is (insert devil name)..piff, paff, poof...the devil has the contract completed and the players lose their souls.
Devils are consumate deal makers and have plots within plots and plans a, b, c d etc. Just because the players out smart the devil on one occasion does not mean they have won, it just means the devil resorts to another plan, there may well be various small print clauses the player characters have not reaslised.
This also might be treated as a game by the Devil, maybe the mortals outsmarting it are just the diversion it needed to enjoy its infernal exsistance again so further meeting do not need to be deadly encounters but something the players might need to bear in mind when roleplaying, especially if they are haggling with npc's.
I mean, if you’re the DM then it’s ultimately up to you what will work for getting out of the bargain. Typically the devils have the upper hand in playing exact words/semantics games with the contracts, with ambiguity typically just being answered with “you should have been more specific”. Killing the one they made the deal with might work, or the debt might just be inherited by their superior. Sometimes it’s reflected by a physical MacGuffin you can destroy to end the deal, though of course that’s rarely a simple and easy task.
Really you can do whatever you want, but I’d strongly recommend putting together a game plan for how it’s going to work. Might want to talk with the players too, since it sounds like they have a plan in mind.
I'm thinking they could try that, but a well-played devil would probably find a way to trick them into fulfilling it anyway - perhaps by having the Archdevil disguise himself as another NPC or by creating some means of transmitting their voices and initiating a conversation.
Well - yea, but that assumes a level of friendly cooperation among the devils I find doubtful. Sure they're lawful, but I'm not convinced that lawful applies to some other devil getting swindled. Also, the players are adhering to the strictest wording of the contract.
I think for one devil to help another requires specific personal benefits. And also, since I'm sure devil A will laugh his horny butt off, it'll be difficult for devil B to ask for help.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Running devils and diabolical contracts can be very fun, but also very challenging. You could create an epic book based purely around the signing of a single contract and the efforts to escape it. Honestly, I feel we need more information from you on the details: was this a purely oral contract done on a whim, with flimsy language? Did you think it out ahead of time and create the whole thing, nuts to bolts, having the players sign it afterwards? What exactly was said, by either the Devil or the contract? I’ll also state that diabolical contracts should be expected to stand up to review by a combined jury of the angelic choirs and infernal bureaucracy. The angels don’t have to like it so long as they can agree it’s legal. A Devil found guilty of breaking their own contract should be brutally punished and even demoted on the spot, preferably in front of the Mortal they wronged. Knowing this, it would take a lot for a Devil to offer a contract it looked on as being less solid than adamant. Typical loopholes to contracts would involve another contract by an outside party (I win, he gets his soul back. I lose, both of us are damned). A contract itself should be one of the most well written pieces of paper ever. If you have the option, check in with someone that’s spent some time reading legal contracts. My parents were looking to sell their house and the land that it was on and they got what looked like a great offer. In reviewing it with their lawyer, it turned out that the proffer allowed the company a great deal of time prior to any commitment and action on the property without even locking them into the purchase. And so long as the contract was active no one else could make any offers (something like that). Naturally, they turned it down.
Random item, but the one time I offered my Player’s a diabolical contract, it was 9 pages long (for reasons) but included fine print at the bottom of each page that at times referenced other parts of the contract and just once referenced an article that was only available to view in a distant library. And that separate but included article was how I got them.
Since Devils are Lawful, and contracts are written and signed in blood usually. I would have done the contract a head of time, made a legal document based on an actual contract for services, and then had the players sign for their characters with a red pen. And then give them a copy. And if they broke the contract I would send a Marut after them.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/2560866-marut
I found this article rather interesting should anyone feel the desire to offer their players a fiendish deal:
https://halflinghobbies.com/making-deals-with-devils-in-dd-5e/