I have a player with a weapon of warning. So, obviously they cannot be "surprised". It is my understanding that this means they get advantage on initiative and they also don't "lose" their first turn.
So the situation is that I have archers hidden in the trees as part of an ambush, the party gets ambushed on the road by several bandits but not the archers, yet.
Initiative is rolled. Round one takes place, then at the top of the round the archers launch a volley of arrows.
Does this hidden enemy generate the surprised condition on the players?
How would you play that out? Have archers roll initiative in the beginning and they release on their turn catching the party of guard and are now surprised?
How far away are the archers from the party. I mean if they are further than 30 feet RAW I suppose it would work since they would be out of range of the weapon itself... but than it also wouldn't really work RAW if you are having the archers attack after initiative has been rolled. Also, RAW you can't create the surprise effect after initiative has started.
They are placed outside the range, but as I understand it there is no "range" for when the weapon warns the holder. Reading about it, some one could quite literally start swinging their sword at the holder, at which point the weapon warns of danger. The assailant has not attacked until then.....so no danger till the the assailant starts to swing the sword. The 30 feet is just for the range of the party, anyone within 30 feet of the player wielding the weapon can't be surprised.
The other comment as far as not being able to surprise after initiative has started, could a character not go invisible, sneak up from behind a hostile and then surprise them with a dagger in their back? Would this not create a surprised condition?
No, it would not. They'd get Advantage on the attack roll and that's it for.attackibg while invisible.
To be honest, the "Surprised" condition in 5e is not very well thought out. It's just not very adaptable to varying situations. The only time you can "Surprise" someone is at the beginning of combat. After that, it doesn't happen.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Does this hidden enemy generate the surprised condition on the players?
No. You can only cause "Surprise" on the first round.
How would you play that out? Have archers roll initiative in the beginning and they release on their turn catching the party of guard and are now surprised?
I'd not have the archers roll initiative yet. Roll Dex (Stealth) and compared to the party's Passive Perception. If they fail the roll, they roll Initiative but don't act the first round (because they plan to shoot on the second round, if players notice and attack them, I'd have the archers be "Surprised", which works because it's the first round). If they are not seen, then they roll initiative on the second round as they join the battle. You don't want to give away that there are others present by rolling Initiative for six enemies when the party only sees four.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
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I have a player with a weapon of warning. So, obviously they cannot be "surprised". It is my understanding that this means they get advantage on initiative and they also don't "lose" their first turn.
So the situation is that I have archers hidden in the trees as part of an ambush, the party gets ambushed on the road by several bandits but not the archers, yet.
Initiative is rolled. Round one takes place, then at the top of the round the archers launch a volley of arrows.
Does this hidden enemy generate the surprised condition on the players?
How would you play that out? Have archers roll initiative in the beginning and they release on their turn catching the party of guard and are now surprised?
How far away are the archers from the party. I mean if they are further than 30 feet RAW I suppose it would work since they would be out of range of the weapon itself... but than it also wouldn't really work RAW if you are having the archers attack after initiative has been rolled. Also, RAW you can't create the surprise effect after initiative has started.
They are placed outside the range, but as I understand it there is no "range" for when the weapon warns the holder. Reading about it, some one could quite literally start swinging their sword at the holder, at which point the weapon warns of danger. The assailant has not attacked until then.....so no danger till the the assailant starts to swing the sword. The 30 feet is just for the range of the party, anyone within 30 feet of the player wielding the weapon can't be surprised.
The other comment as far as not being able to surprise after initiative has started, could a character not go invisible, sneak up from behind a hostile and then surprise them with a dagger in their back? Would this not create a surprised condition?
No, it would not. They'd get Advantage on the attack roll and that's it for.attackibg while invisible.
To be honest, the "Surprised" condition in 5e is not very well thought out. It's just not very adaptable to varying situations. The only time you can "Surprise" someone is at the beginning of combat. After that, it doesn't happen.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
No. You can only cause "Surprise" on the first round.
I'd not have the archers roll initiative yet. Roll Dex (Stealth) and compared to the party's Passive Perception. If they fail the roll, they roll Initiative but don't act the first round (because they plan to shoot on the second round, if players notice and attack them, I'd have the archers be "Surprised", which works because it's the first round). If they are not seen, then they roll initiative on the second round as they join the battle. You don't want to give away that there are others present by rolling Initiative for six enemies when the party only sees four.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.