Most of the time those heavy packs are dropped at the start of combat or even before. Dropping the pack can even be done while running.
Combat loads are different than your overland carry load.
I normally put 3 or 4 pouches on my belt and load those up with all my smalls. I strap my water skin, large tarp, bed roll and rope to the outside of my backpack. I cut the food down to a few days worth, normally two or three days worth. Load up more food and water according to the coming situation. Any extra cloths and personals I put in the backpack with the food.
Prioritize the stuff you can't live without and the stuff you just want. Loot goes into sacks you can drop to save your life.
This is pretty much how we did it in the Army back in the 90s. We had our ruck with most of our heavy, bulky gear with quick releases so we could ground it quickly if the feces hit the oscillator. On our belt/harness we carried a fighting kit. Knives/bayonets, water, ammo, maybe an MRE in a buttpack. Reconstructions of Roman fighting kit looks similar, and how I'd envision an adventurer carries their gear. Pack on a carrying pole, shield, javelins, sword and dagger in hand. If you get ambushed, you simply drop the carrying pole with your non-combat kit, shield up, and you're ready to fight. Were I an adventurer, I'd 100% be carrying my kit in a similar manner so I could get that pack off in a hurry and not be weighted down with non fighting equipment in case I found myself in an unplanned fight.
That's kind of drives my imagery of casters too. I used to be a staff guy, now I am more of a wand guy. I can carry a wand in a sheath like a dagger, while a staff eats up a hand. Robes? Not a chance. I can't imagine running in one of those, so my casters do not wear them either. Tunic and trousers for me. Those are all aethetic choices though in how I envision my character.
Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
Not sure if that helps, particularly. Even an ogre can run through a mental list: Heavy armor, canned goods, save for later. Medium armor, medium threat, tenderize with mallet. Light armor, beware: If lute, ignore. If daggers, beware, no turn back. No armor: Cheaters, squish first. If stick, squish. If branch, squish. If paper, squish. If neither, still squish. Even if tiny sword, still squish. Squish squish.
The robe really doesn't matter. It's not like a pair of pants is some sort of brilliant disguise that makes full casters invisible to the naked eye =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Most of the time those heavy packs are dropped at the start of combat or even before. Dropping the pack can even be done while running.
Combat loads are different than your overland carry load.
I normally put 3 or 4 pouches on my belt and load those up with all my smalls. I strap my water skin, large tarp, bed roll and rope to the outside of my backpack. I cut the food down to a few days worth, normally two or three days worth. Load up more food and water according to the coming situation. Any extra cloths and personals I put in the backpack with the food.
Prioritize the stuff you can't live without and the stuff you just want. Loot goes into sacks you can drop to save your life.
This is pretty much how we did it in the Army back in the 90s. We had our ruck with most of our heavy, bulky gear with quick releases so we could ground it quickly if the feces hit the oscillator. On our belt/harness we carried a fighting kit. Knives/bayonets, water, ammo, maybe an MRE in a buttpack. Reconstructions of Roman fighting kit looks similar, and how I'd envision an adventurer carries their gear. Pack on a carrying pole, shield, javelins, sword and dagger in hand. If you get ambushed, you simply drop the carrying pole with your non-combat kit, shield up, and you're ready to fight. Were I an adventurer, I'd 100% be carrying my kit in a similar manner so I could get that pack off in a hurry and not be weighted down with non fighting equipment in case I found myself in an unplanned fight.
That's kind of drives my imagery of casters too. I used to be a staff guy, now I am more of a wand guy. I can carry a wand in a sheath like a dagger, while a staff eats up a hand. Robes? Not a chance. I can't imagine running in one of those, so my casters do not wear them either. Tunic and trousers for me. Those are all aethetic choices though in how I envision my character.
Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
Because a robe allows certain body parts to breath comfortably, they are extra snuggly for an extra cozy adventure, and they are almost as cool as cloaks. However, yes, having a robe typically means a backpack isn't needed depending on pocket size.
Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
I mean, any time you're wearing clothing you're wearing a big "I'm squishy" sign, meaning you're either a noncombatant or a decent 'kill first' priority. Of course, a monk can always exploit that.
Which is why I like mithril breastplates - worn under the ( over sized) tunic and trousers for my rangers. It’s that little bit of surprise when the clothing wearing “squishy” plus a short sword and scimitar and starts slicing and dicing. Of course it worked even better back in 3e with +8 bracers and a +5 cloak and ring. More realisticly, things like Arab robes do serve real purposes in hot dry climates just as tunic and trousers do in cold, damp climates and things like Champs ( thick leather “cowboy” leggings) do in places with lots of long, strong spines etc.. of course you can get nearly the same effect with with loose shirts and trousers as with robes.
Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
I mean, any time you're wearing clothing you're wearing a big "I'm squishy" sign, meaning you're either a noncombatant or a decent 'kill first' priority. Of course, a monk can always exploit that.
Depends on common casters are in the setting I guess. If rare, and 95% of the time they are just a non com focusing on them and ignoring the threat could get you killed. The more common they are the more worth it is to risk it that they aren't just a distraction.
And apparently backpacks still 30 lb capacity in 2024 edition. I get they aren't aluminum frame modern backpacks but a basic leather backpack can carry more than that easy. And wooden frame backpacks have existed for ages.
Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
I mean, any time you're wearing clothing you're wearing a big "I'm squishy" sign, meaning you're either a noncombatant or a decent 'kill first' priority. Of course, a monk can always exploit that.
Depends on common casters are in the setting I guess. If rare, and 95% of the time they are just a non com focusing on them and ignoring the threat could get you killed. The more common they are the more worth it is to risk it that they aren't just a distraction.
And apparently backpacks still 30 lb capacity in 2024 edition. I get they aren't aluminum frame modern backpacks but a basic leather backpack can carry more than that easy. And wooden frame backpacks have existed for ages.
This is why I am so enraged! I had an old Swedish military backpack. It carried like 60lbs, was made of cloth and was smaller than the trapper keeper of a backpack I had in High School.
Almost all of the starter equipment packages come with a backpack and it only holds 30lbs. Even without the 10lbs of rope a starting adventurer's backpack is overloaded by rations alone.
Why? Why aren't backpacks 60lbs, sacks 30lbs and pouches 6lbs? As a DM I constantly have to buy sacks for my players and shift their equipment around to avoid bursting containers and it does add some item management issues for exploration which is fun. None the less a 50lbs-60lbs backpack makes more sense considering the weight of most starting packages.
It aggravates me.
Dude, take a look at Shadowdark's inventory system, then thank me. So much simpler, strength now has a use. The backpack has no weight or carrying capacity. The backpack simply organizes and protects your gear, like it should do.
The system makes coins have real weight and gives you a strong incentive to use gyms or bank notes. 10 strength = 10 items (10 items you can always care even with a strength of 3, its base), some items like 2 hand weapons or heavy armor have 2 or 3 encumbrance, 100 coins = 1 encumbrance. My god does it make it easy to implement portable holes etc because you give them an encumbrance holding as DM. My portable holes carry about as much as 6 men.
Also, yes, there are some who consider missing attack rolls tedious. The reason that the concept is normally kept around is because so much of the game depends on attack rolls missing, so you'd have to rework a ton of things just to be able to remove it. I think you'll find that basically nothing relies on carrying capacity.
Except how much treasure you can carry, whether or not you can carry a fallen comrade (maybe you have to choose). Perhaps the guy with the 8 Strength is in a position where he needs an item he decided not to carry because of weight? I don't make a big deal about it as a DM usually, but when I'm a player I do and when I see a character with 5 heavy weapons, 38000 gold, a shield and who knows what else I step in.
This video (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/t043SdYYTAw) makes me think that the weight limit imposed in the rules may be more for volume management than for anything else. While 30 lbs. does seem rather light, if it were 100 lbs., you would then have to start calculating volume to see when it was at capacity.
In other words, since most things in the game don't have a volume rating, they went with weight.
This video (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/t043SdYYTAw) makes me think that the weight limit imposed in the rules may be more for volume management than for anything else. While 30 lbs. does seem rather light, if it were 100 lbs., you would then have to start calculating volume to see when it was at capacity.
In other words, since most things in the game don't have a volume rating, they went with weight.
Could be, though I kind of think people ballparked volume as well. A great sword is 6 pounds, but people know its too long to fit in the 1 cubic foot of volume.(as an aside I wish they had gone with 2 cubic feet) But I also think the weight of items were modified to reflect bulk to some degree, like pikes coming in at 18 pounds. So I think weight limits in general and including storage is in a sense treating weight/bulk as a similar metric.
I think they could have had 2 backpacks as well. Maybe a 30lb 1 cubic foot sort of in town daily bag, vs a 2-3 cubic foot 60-90 pound travel bag.
Leaving aside modern airborne soldiers jumping n behind the lines with everything they will need, 30 pounds isn’t actually unreasonable for a pack weight combat likely scenarios. And yes I’ve hauled much heavier packs when out hiking in the wilderness. But what typically happens - you hike in, make a camp and then take a much lighter pack out with you for the day to day activities. Roman soldiers didn’t normally carry all their gear - they had carts and wagons, same for mideveal armies. Knights had a riding horse as well as a their war horse and 1-3 pack horses, a mountain main typically had a riding horse and several pack horses. You put the weight on a beast of burden (or cart/wagon pulled by the beast) leaving you only lightly encumbered so you could move quickly, fight or flee as needed. Now a riding horse along with gear ( bit, saddle etc) runs about 90 GP so it’s well within a tier 1 PC’s budget as is a mule (8 GP. & rideable) or a pack/draft horse (60 GP) , pack saddle (10 GP) , bit & bridle (2GP). Realistically this should be some of the standard stuff most PCs get with their cash in tier 1. Other things to consider are “ utility belts” essentially belts with a bunch of cloth ot leather pouches so you can hold and separate all their small stuff/gear you are carrying around. My standard one weighs 5#, is made of leather with 10-20 pouches and 2 places to attach weapons. Max load it can hold is 50 lbs. I number and letter my items to tell which pouch and position the items are in.
Keep in mind that pack capacity is a separate figure from pack weight. Someone with lower strength could simply carry less. It is not all or nothing when packing. Your pack can be half completely full, half full, completely empty or at any of the points in between those three states.
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Getting off topic but definitely tunic and trousers for my casters. Not only much more practical in a far wider variety of terrains but also why wear a big "I'm a caster, kill me first!" sign?
Not sure if that helps, particularly. Even an ogre can run through a mental list: Heavy armor, canned goods, save for later. Medium armor, medium threat, tenderize with mallet. Light armor, beware: If lute, ignore. If daggers, beware, no turn back. No armor: Cheaters, squish first. If stick, squish. If branch, squish. If paper, squish. If neither, still squish. Even if tiny sword, still squish. Squish squish.
The robe really doesn't matter. It's not like a pair of pants is some sort of brilliant disguise that makes full casters invisible to the naked eye =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, generally speaking hiding you're a caster will maybe work until you cast your first spell.
If backpacks make me 'rage' it's because other than perhaps for a thief/rogue/specialist type of character the things look goofy in a fantasy setting.
Because a robe allows certain body parts to breath comfortably, they are extra snuggly for an extra cozy adventure, and they are almost as cool as cloaks. However, yes, having a robe typically means a backpack isn't needed depending on pocket size.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
I mean, any time you're wearing clothing you're wearing a big "I'm squishy" sign, meaning you're either a noncombatant or a decent 'kill first' priority. Of course, a monk can always exploit that.
Which is why I like mithril breastplates - worn under the ( over sized) tunic and trousers for my rangers. It’s that little bit of surprise when the clothing wearing “squishy” plus a short sword and scimitar and starts slicing and dicing. Of course it worked even better back in 3e with +8 bracers and a +5 cloak and ring. More realisticly, things like Arab robes do serve real purposes in hot dry climates just as tunic and trousers do in cold, damp climates and things like Champs ( thick leather “cowboy” leggings) do in places with lots of long, strong spines etc.. of course you can get nearly the same effect with with loose shirts and trousers as with robes.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Depends on common casters are in the setting I guess. If rare, and 95% of the time they are just a non com focusing on them and ignoring the threat could get you killed. The more common they are the more worth it is to risk it that they aren't just a distraction.
And apparently backpacks still 30 lb capacity in 2024 edition. I get they aren't aluminum frame modern backpacks but a basic leather backpack can carry more than that easy. And wooden frame backpacks have existed for ages.
This is why I am so enraged! I had an old Swedish military backpack. It carried like 60lbs, was made of cloth and was smaller than the trapper keeper of a backpack I had in High School.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
Dude, take a look at Shadowdark's inventory system, then thank me. So much simpler, strength now has a use. The backpack has no weight or carrying capacity. The backpack simply organizes and protects your gear, like it should do.
The system makes coins have real weight and gives you a strong incentive to use gyms or bank notes. 10 strength = 10 items (10 items you can always care even with a strength of 3, its base), some items like 2 hand weapons or heavy armor have 2 or 3 encumbrance, 100 coins = 1 encumbrance. My god does it make it easy to implement portable holes etc because you give them an encumbrance holding as DM. My portable holes carry about as much as 6 men.
Except how much treasure you can carry, whether or not you can carry a fallen comrade (maybe you have to choose). Perhaps the guy with the 8 Strength is in a position where he needs an item he decided not to carry because of weight? I don't make a big deal about it as a DM usually, but when I'm a player I do and when I see a character with 5 heavy weapons, 38000 gold, a shield and who knows what else I step in.
This video (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/t043SdYYTAw) makes me think that the weight limit imposed in the rules may be more for volume management than for anything else. While 30 lbs. does seem rather light, if it were 100 lbs., you would then have to start calculating volume to see when it was at capacity.
In other words, since most things in the game don't have a volume rating, they went with weight.
Could be, though I kind of think people ballparked volume as well. A great sword is 6 pounds, but people know its too long to fit in the 1 cubic foot of volume.(as an aside I wish they had gone with 2 cubic feet) But I also think the weight of items were modified to reflect bulk to some degree, like pikes coming in at 18 pounds. So I think weight limits in general and including storage is in a sense treating weight/bulk as a similar metric.
I think they could have had 2 backpacks as well. Maybe a 30lb 1 cubic foot sort of in town daily bag, vs a 2-3 cubic foot 60-90 pound travel bag.
Leaving aside modern airborne soldiers jumping n behind the lines with everything they will need, 30 pounds isn’t actually unreasonable for a pack weight combat likely scenarios. And yes I’ve hauled much heavier packs when out hiking in the wilderness. But what typically happens - you hike in, make a camp and then take a much lighter pack out with you for the day to day activities. Roman soldiers didn’t normally carry all their gear - they had carts and wagons, same for mideveal armies. Knights had a riding horse as well as a their war horse and 1-3 pack horses, a mountain main typically had a riding horse and several pack horses. You put the weight on a beast of burden (or cart/wagon pulled by the beast) leaving you only lightly encumbered so you could move quickly, fight or flee as needed. Now a riding horse along with gear ( bit, saddle etc) runs about 90 GP so it’s well within a tier 1 PC’s budget as is a mule (8 GP. & rideable) or a pack/draft horse (60 GP) , pack saddle (10 GP) , bit & bridle (2GP). Realistically this should be some of the standard stuff most PCs get with their cash in tier 1. Other things to consider are “ utility belts” essentially belts with a bunch of cloth ot leather pouches so you can hold and separate all their small stuff/gear you are carrying around. My standard one weighs 5#, is made of leather with 10-20 pouches and 2 places to attach weapons. Max load it can hold is 50 lbs. I number and letter my items to tell which pouch and position the items are in.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Keep in mind that pack capacity is a separate figure from pack weight. Someone with lower strength could simply carry less. It is not all or nothing when packing. Your pack can be half completely full, half full, completely empty or at any of the points in between those three states.