While Earth exists in the D&D “universe” ( thanks really to Ed Greenwood) it’s never been a “D&D” world. Nor does its physics and chemistry (and biology and “Earth”Science) exactly correspond to that of the various D&D worlds. HOWEVER, at least 90+% of earthly science does correspond to the various D&D worlds - how can I say that you ask? Simple - if the sciences didn’t correspond then we the players couldn’t correctly judge what to do because the unexpected would be happening all the time. The vast majority of the sciences have to correspond for our learned responses and judgements based on Earthly consequences to work. Are there exceptions? Not really as many as you might think. Yes, objects and individuals fall instantly up to 500’ in a round, however, that fairly accurately represents the distance an object falls on earth in 6 seconds. The biggest differences come when we invoke magic but even that can be explained within the contexts of quantum and relativistic physics in many cases. Even things like owl bears can be represented as gene splicing via magic transfers - as good as micro manipulation techniques for the vast majority of us. As for backpacks, encumbrance, ration and missile counting etc, keep in mind that when you toss out a set of rules because they “slow play down” or other reasons of distaste you may be having a larger than expected impact on the game balance. Throw out rations, wandering monsters, encumberance, and getting lost and you have effectively killed the exploration/travel leg of the game and rendered the ranger (and Druid somewhat) class (es) much weaker because that leg is their forte. Like Koran and several others I consider myself an experienced outdoorsman and agree that backpacks at 30# are a bit off for real world to D&D transfers. But it’s easy enough to deal with (buy the player really but at the DMs direction) just go into the inventory and customize the packs: daypack - leave at 30#, Frame pack - increase the weight to 60-100#. Then you also have things like saddlebags that could be either carried or customized to suit the DM/Player’s ideas. One of the simplest is a “utility belt” or belt of pouches made by renaming saddlebags (or other container) to hold some amount of weight in a bunch of pouches attached to a belt. In 4e there was a magical version.
In my campaigns I track carrying capacity but I really do not keep track of where they stuff their things. As long as they have one backpack, it has the same holding capacity as their character limit.
I also have a homebrew rule for quick-access poches. Each character has 2 belt poches that they can use to hold something small, such as a dagger, knife, potion, scroll, and they can use those items as a bonus action.
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nothing in the rules says a person couldn’t take several such containers, securely fasten them together, and increase their ability to store and carry larger quantities of whatever.
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Most, if not all, firefighters can do that. It's probably a job requirement.
Addressing the second point first: Nah, they do need to do that to even qualify off the bat. I live next to a station and see then do their qualifications. They have to be able to lift it. 200lbs is a bit much for a march but some ex-danish miliatry pointed out that 50lbs was what they were required to do for marching and it is the same in the IDF and US Military.
I understand multiple bags can be used and I tend to have a two sacks, a pouch, and a backpack on a character to fit everything and give me room to store some loot. I feel like backpacks just need a bit more. Havester Backpacks fit more than a Bag of Holding. Why isn't it the same for common backpacks and sacks. I just feel like they should be 60lbs or at least 50lbs while sacks which are smaller by RAW should remain at 30lbs.
Thanks for all the comments by the way all. I never have post blow up so I am happy that it did. It means I choose a good topic for discussion. Makes me proud to be a neckbeard!
but some ex-danish miliatry pointed out that 50lbs was what they were required to do for marching
.. that's not right.
Hey, or maybe it is. I'm danish ex-military, but I served in 1991, maybe the packs simply got lighter. That could happen, we were issued **** gear. But in my day, full gear meant 36 kilos. Well, that includes rifle, 2 grenades, mags and ammo, gas mask, medkit ... and so on. Technically, the pack itself wouldn't be 36 kilo. I guess maybe you're right. Disregard this post =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
So, when sleeping in medium or heavy armor, you regain fewer spent hit dice (but still fully heal all lost hit points) and do not recover any exhaustion levels, if your character happens to be exhausted (which they would not be simply from a normal day of adventuring and travel).
That is still massively more comfortable than the real life equivalent.
See I always disagreed with this rule. As someone who has slept in Chainmail, Scale Armor and even Plate Armor. It isn't that uncomfortable, I didn't lose any sleep and I got a good night's rest. Was ready to go the next day without any issues. With 1 or 2 exceptions anyone I know that has, were the same.
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
An Earth is in the Multiverse of the game, and it is explicitly not this Earth, in which you and I dwell. It is a fictional Earth (alternate history, specifically), and it is not in the same Prime Material Plane. Additionally, the laws of physics on that Earth do not, in fact, behave as they do here, because that Earth is still represented by the same game rules
That is not how Spelljammer works.
There are no official D&D settings for modern Earth, WW2, or Post-Apocalypse. There are worlds that have been produced by TSR and Wizards that have those as a nature, but they are not D&D worlds, and never have been. I have been playing this game for 45 years, I am a world builder who has collected all but six of the official published D&D worlds, and there's nonesuch.
D&D worlds are still pretty numerous, however: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Mystara (+Hollow World, +Savage Coast), Ravenloft (+Masque), Kara-Tur (+Mahasarpa), Pelinore, Krynn, Dark Sun, Al-Qadim, Eberron, Nentir Vale, The Endless Waste, Maztica, Manifest (Ghostwalk), Jakandor, Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven, Thunder Rift, Forgotten Realms, Planescape (+Sigil), Aebrynis, Io's Blood Isles, and the questionably included or licensed {Rokugan}, {Kalamar}, {Warcraft}, {Lankhmar}, {Conan}, {Red Sonja}, and the 1977 {Wilderlands of High Fantasy} that ended up subsuming the old City-State.
Even the very first world setting TSR published was not a D&D world.
So, again...
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
Must not of read much Ed Greenwood to think that. Technically all fiction happens outside reality, but the fiction pertaining the Forgotten Realms included our Earth as Ed Greenwood has at times a hard time separating himself from Elminster. (Not to say he truly thinks he is one in the same, but to listen to him and read his writing it's clear Elminster is a self insert.)
So yes, All Books based in fiction are not taking place on our Earth, that isn't needed to be said, but in the Fictional version of Earth in D&D it is 100% based on our world, and due to self inserts and the authors way of writing, that version of Earth was intended to be our version of Earth. Rules are however overlaid over the setting, doesn't matter what physics say, game mechanics trumps reality.
There were several Official TSR settings based on 1st Edition D&D rules:
The Adventures of Indiana Jones Role-Playing Game By David Cook published by TSR 1984
Gamma World by James Ward & Gary Jaquet published by TSR 1978 (This game evolved away from D&D in future publishing but the Early Edition was a fun mix of Sci-FI and D&D)
For modern, 3rd Edition:
d20 Modernby Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, and Charels Ryan published 2003 Wizards of the Coast using the 3rd Edition D&D ruleset.
And of course the Greatest Unexpected Setting:
Star Wars Roleplaying Game by Bill Slavicsek, Andy Collins, and JD Wiker published 2002 Wizards of the Coast using 3rd Edition D&D ruleset.
Even the very first world setting TSR published was not a D&D world.
Yes and No...
Chainmail where is all stared was a game ruleset for tabletop fantasy war gaming, which almost all modern RPGs and Table top Wargames own a dept to for helping the hobby grow, due to the inclusion of tropes found in the mid 20th century era of Fantasy fiction. That gave birth the D&D and when they had to give the rules and stories they had a setting Name it was Greyhawk. You could say Greyhawk was born in 1972 when Chainmail included Wizards and Elves. (Ironically Forgotten Realms is older... because Ed Greenwood said he got the idea for his setting in 1967. But we don't count that, as TSR and Ed would not meet until the 80s.
However using Gygax's words: "Before the rules for D&D were published, "Old Greyhawk Castle" was 13 levels deep."
Almost all of the starter equipment packages come with a backpack and it only holds 30lbs. Even without the 10lbs of rope a starting adventurer's backpack is overloaded by rations alone.
Why? Why aren't backpacks 60lbs, sacks 30lbs and pouches 6lbs? As a DM I constantly have to buy sacks for my players and shift their equipment around to avoid bursting containers and it does add some item management issues for exploration which is fun. None the less a 50lbs-60lbs backpack makes more sense considering the weight of most starting packages.
It aggravates me.
I've never had that problem. As far as I am concerned the players have the necessary items before the they move out, unless they want something specific (nets, whips etc.).
Diplomat's Pack: 36 pounds. The backpack itself is 5 pounds, and presumably doesn't count towards its own weight capacity, so inside the bag you have to fit 31 pounds. Take out the chest, which weighs 25 pounds and can hold 300 pounds. Why are you carrying that everywhere in the first place? Now you're down to just 6 pounds. Capacity: 24.
Dungeoneer's Pack: 61.5 pounds, or 56.5 excluding the bag. Wow! That's almost twice the capacity of the bag! But it has 10 days of rations (20 pounds) and 50 feet of rope (10 pounds that can hang on the side and not contribute to the weight limit), so if you take that stuff out, it's 26.5 pounds. Room enough to haul a day's worth of rations on your person. Put the rest in a cart, you madman. Why are you trying to haul 20 pounds of food through a dungeon. Capacity: 3.5.
Entertainer's Pack (not coded in Beyond as its own thing): backpack is 5. Bedroll 7, two costumes 8, five days' rations 10, waterskin 5, disguise kit 3. So that's 33 pounds plus the 5 pound bag. Remove the rations and it's a nice 13. Capacity: 17.
Explorer's Pack: 59 pounds. Again, 54, and again, remove the rations (20) and rope (10) and you're golden (24). Capacity: 6.
Priest's Pack: 24 pounds, which is actually 19. No problems, and you can also remove 4 pounds of rations. Capacity: 15.
Scholar's Pack: 10 pounds, which is actually 5. Easy. Capacity: 25.
Burglar's Pack: 47.5, or actually 42.5 pounds. Remove the rope, 37.5. This is the first one where I don't see a clean way to get everything in there. You could lose the climbing gear (8 pounds) and keep the rations (10 pounds) or vice versa, but what if you need to scale a mountain in your travels? Idk. Capacity: Let's say 2.5.
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
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Now let's add the other starting gear. I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
Artificers get a light crossbow (5), and two simple weapons. The heaviest simple weapon is a greatclub at 10 pounds. If you took two of those for some reason then you would certainly encounter problems with your mandatory dungeoneer's pack. You have 2.5 pounds to work with after your 1-pound thieves' tools, not 20. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Barbarians get a martial melee weapon, pike's the heaviest at 18, and either two handaxes (4) or a simple (greatclub is 10). So you need to get 18 pounds worth of polearm into your 6-capacity explorer's pack, along with four javelins (8). That's not going to work. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Bards get a simple weapon, which they're choosing greatclub (10), plus a musical instrument (dulcimer is 10) and a dagger (1). They can choose an entertainer's pack (13 free) or diplomat's (24 free). They should pick the diplomat's pack if they want to have the heaviest items possible. They'll have 3 extra pounds. Load-bearing: PASS.
Clerics get either a mace or warhammer, and the mace is heavier at 4 pounds. However, carrying a holy symbol in one hand and a mace in the other, they can actually put their shield (6) in the bag instead, netting 2 whole pounds. They get a simple weapon so they'll take the 10 pound greatclub. Their pack is either the explorer's (6) or the priest's (11). Neither is enough for the 16 pounds they decided to take. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Druids can take a shield. Shields weigh 6 pounds. Or they can get a 10-pound greatclub. Then they can pick another greatclub, and a druidic focus (heaviest one's 4 pounds). That's 20 pounds of crap if they're holding their focus, and their bag is the explorer's pack, which has 6 pounds free. Egads! A woeful day for the two-greatclub druid. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Fighters can choose armor or a longbow, but a longbow can occupy both hands and the armor can't. Two martial weapons? Hey, baby, that's two 18 pound pikes. A light crossbow or two handaxes... the crossbow wins at 5 pounds. He's holding his lightest weapon, the longbow, so he's hauling 41 pounds of weapons in his choice of explorer's pack (6) or dungeoneer's pack (3.5). Sadly, two pikes just doesn't fly for the unfortunate fighter. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Monks get a simple weapon (greatclub, 10), ten darts (2.5), and either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Paladin, two 18-pound pikes in the tradition of the fighter, plus 10-pound greatclub, plus the heaviest holy symbol at 2 pounds. Pack: Priest's (11) or explorer's (6). Reliquary in hand means he can't use any of his weapons, so into the bag they go, for 46 pounds. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Ranger! Two greatclubs is 20 pounds, great start. Longbow is only 2. You can tell the ranger is a bow expert because he's the first one who gets a quiver for his arrows. Everyone else jams them into their boots or through their hair. His packs are dungeoneer's (3.5) or explorer's (6). Neither is enough for his two mighty greatclubs, sadly. And as we all know, a ranger without two non-dual-wieldable greatclubs is hardly a ranger at all. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Rogue gets a rapier or a shortsword, and they both weigh 2 pounds. A shortbow (2) (with a quiver!), two daggers (2), tools (1), and a vast three choices of pack for his 5 pounds of crap to go in: Burglar's (already overstuffed), dungeoneer's (3.5), or explorer's (6). The rogue actually can't go any lower than this on his starting gear. He has to take the explorer's pack, or leave stuff behind. Load-bearing: PASS.
Sorcerer gets the ol' 10 pound greatclub, two 1-pound daggers, and an arcane focus, of which the heaviest is the 4-pound staff. Let's say he's dual-wielding daggers so he has to put the staff AND the greatclub in his bag, which of course is either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. 6 is not equal to or greater than 14, I asked the wizard. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Warlock can also have the greatclub and the staff, but he can actually take a second greatclub, putting his haul up to a mighty 24 pounds if he also dual-wields starting daggers. Very cool. Pack options are the rare scholar's pack (25), or the dungeoneer's pack (3.5). He's A-OK if he takes the scholar's pack! And what scholar doesn't carry two greatclubs everywhere he goes? Load-bearing: PASS.
Finally the Wizard. 4-pound staff is a poor start, but he can wisely take another 4-pound staff, so that's fun. A spellbook weighs 3 pounds, and his packs are scholar's (25) or explorer's (6). Only one will hold his colossal 7 pounds of precious arcane accoutrements. Load-bearing: PASS.
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Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
The Monster Hunter's Pack comes with the Haunted One background from The Curse of Strahd at least that is where I saw it first, shows to be in the Basic Rules according to the haunted one link but I wasn't able to find it. ETA: I did find it in Van Richten's Guide To Ravenloft
As for all the writing, thanks it is very handy.
Maybe someone should ask the Crawdad on social media for some clarification on backpacks?
A bedroll would be strapped to the outside of the pack, freeing up more space inside.
Assuming that's accurate, you can add a nice 7 pounds of capacity to the entertainer's pack (17 -> 24) and explorer's pack (6 -> 13). This would allow the Monk to pass, but doesn't make a difference for anyone else.
Diplomat's Pack: 36 pounds. The backpack itself is 5 pounds, and presumably doesn't count towards its own weight capacity, so inside the bag you have to fit 31 pounds. Take out the chest, which weighs 25 pounds and can hold 300 pounds. Why are you carrying that everywhere in the first place? Now you're down to just 6 pounds. Capacity: 24.
Dungeoneer's Pack: 61.5 pounds, or 56.5 excluding the bag. Wow! That's almost twice the capacity of the bag! But it has 10 days of rations (20 pounds) and 50 feet of rope (10 pounds that can hang on the side and not contribute to the weight limit), so if you take that stuff out, it's 26.5 pounds. Room enough to haul a day's worth of rations on your person. Put the rest in a cart, you madman. Why are you trying to haul 20 pounds of food through a dungeon. Capacity: 3.5.
Entertainer's Pack (not coded in Beyond as its own thing): backpack is 5. Bedroll 7, two costumes 8, five days' rations 10, waterskin 5, disguise kit 3. So that's 33 pounds plus the 5 pound bag. Remove the rations and it's a nice 13. Capacity: 17.
Explorer's Pack: 59 pounds. Again, 54, and again, remove the rations (20) and rope (10) and you're golden (24). Capacity: 6.
Priest's Pack: 24 pounds, which is actually 19. No problems, and you can also remove 4 pounds of rations. Capacity: 15.
Scholar's Pack: 10 pounds, which is actually 5. Easy. Capacity: 25.
Burglar's Pack: 47.5, or actually 42.5 pounds. Remove the rope, 37.5. This is the first one where I don't see a clean way to get everything in there. You could lose the climbing gear (8 pounds) and keep the rations (10 pounds) or vice versa, but what if you need to scale a mountain in your travels? Idk. Capacity: Let's say 2.5.
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
---
Now let's add the other starting gear. I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
Artificers get a light crossbow (5), and two simple weapons. The heaviest simple weapon is a greatclub at 10 pounds. If you took two of those for some reason then you would certainly encounter problems with your mandatory dungeoneer's pack. You have 2.5 pounds to work with after your 1-pound thieves' tools, not 20. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Barbarians get a martial melee weapon, pike's the heaviest at 18, and either two handaxes (4) or a simple (greatclub is 10). So you need to get 18 pounds worth of polearm into your 6-capacity explorer's pack, along with four javelins (8). That's not going to work. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Bards get a simple weapon, which they're choosing greatclub (10), plus a musical instrument (dulcimer is 10) and a dagger (1). They can choose an entertainer's pack (13 free) or diplomat's (24 free). They should pick the diplomat's pack if they want to have the heaviest items possible. They'll have 3 extra pounds. Load-bearing: PASS.
Clerics get either a mace or warhammer, and the mace is heavier at 4 pounds.They get a simple weapon so they'll take the 10 pound greatclub. Their pack is either the explorer's (6) or the priest's (11). Neither is enough. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Druids are the first ones who get a shield. Shields weigh 6 pounds. Or they can get a 10-pound greatclub. Then they can pick another greatclub, and a druidic focus (heaviest one's 4 pounds). That's 20 pounds of crap if they're holding their focus, and their bag is the explorer's pack, which has 6 pounds free. Egads! A woeful day for the two-greatclub druid. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Fighters can choose armor or a longbow, but a longbow can occupy both hands and the armor can't. Two martial weapons? Hey, baby, that's two 18 pound pikes. A light crossbow or two handaxes... the crossbow wins at 5 pounds. He's holding his lightest weapon, the longbow, so he's hauling 41 pounds of weapons in his choice of explorer's pack (6) or dungeoneer's pack (3.5). Sadly, two pikes just doesn't fly for the unfortunate fighter. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Monks get a simple weapon (greatclub, 10), ten darts (2.5), and either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Paladin, 18-pound pike, plus 10-pound greatclub, plus the heaviest holy symbol at 2 pounds. Pack: Priest's (11) or explorer's (6). He's gonna have problems even if he carries his greatclub in his hands. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Ranger! Two greatclubs is 20 pounds, great start. Longbow is only 2. You can tell the ranger is a bow expert because he's the first one who gets a quiver for his arrows. Everyone else jams them into their boots or through their hair. His packs are dungeoneer's (3.5) or explorer's (6). Neither is enough for his two mighty greatclubs, sadly. And as we all know, a ranger without two non-dual-wieldable greatclubs is hardly a ranger at all. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Rogue gets a rapier or a shortsword, and they both weigh 2 pounds. A shortbow (2) (with a quiver!), two daggers (2), tools (1), and a vast three choices of pack for his 5 pounds of crap to go in: Burglar's (already overstuffed), dungeoneer's (3.5), or explorer's (6). The rogue actually can't go any lower than this on his starting gear. He has to take the explorer's pack, or leave stuff behind. Load-bearing: PASS.
Sorcerer gets the ol' 10 pound greatclub, two 1-pound daggers, and an arcane focus, of which the heaviest is the 4-pound staff. Let's say he's dual-wielding daggers so he has to put the staff AND the greatclub in his bag, which of course is either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. 6 is not equal to or greater than 14, I asked the wizard. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Warlock can also have the greatclub and the staff, but he can actually take a second greatclub, putting his haul up to a mighty 24 pounds if he also dual-wields starting daggers. Very cool. Pack options are the rare scholar's pack (25), or the dungeoneer's pack (3.5). He's A-OK if he takes the scholar's pack! And what scholar doesn't carry two greatclubs everywhere he goes? Load-bearing: PASS.
Finally the Wizard. 4-pound staff is a poor start, but he can wisely take another 4-pound staff, so that's fun. A spellbook weighs 3 pounds, and his packs are scholar's (25) or explorer's (6). Only one will hold his colossal 7 pounds of precious arcane accoutrements. Load-bearing: PASS.
---
Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
question? Are you stuffing everything into the backpacks?
a majority of people carry only the most valuable and important items of survival usually in their backpacks, and more used and readily available accessible items somewhere close and outside of the cargo container on their back.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
[...]
Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
question? Are you stuffing everything into the backpacks?
Yeah. See above, and see the OP on page 1. This is a response to that.
a majority of people carry only the most valuable and important items of survival usually in their backpacks, and more used and readily available accessible items somewhere close and outside of the cargo container on their back.
I agree. I suggest at the very least taking most of your rations out and putting them somewhere like a cart. In fact you have to leave something behind, unless you can somehow create a massive tower of stuff that you just carry in your arms, in which case you're gonna have some real trouble fighting. I also make the assumption in my analysis that anyone who has arrows or bolts is allowed to carry them outside the backpack somewhere. It's not specified where, but I feel that's fair. You could probably do the same with daggers and handaxes, possibly even shortswords and rapiers, but I didn't want to get into all that. But leaving something behind isn't the same thing as losing it forever. I mean, I guess it might be the same, if your DM is really preposterously harsh.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
EH?
Need your source on that. Definitely wasn't that way in 1e. 2e. or earlier. Always is a pretty broad term.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Well I'll be danged. Homes did indeed put that right there. I apologize.
However, that still doesn't qualify for always, and since 5e is built on the AD&D chassis, isn't applicable.
But yes, in Basic, prior to the early 80's revision (which did not apply the same basis), and after the initial release (which did not have that as a basis), it was indeed 300 gp weight.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Neat! It's more complicated now. From the Basic Rules (Ch 5, Wealth > Coinage):
A standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce, so fifty coins weigh a pound.
If one pound is 50 coins, 30 pounds is 1,500 coins! For 1500 coins to amount to 300gp, each coin would need to be worth a fifth of a gold? Am I doing my math right? Clearly we don't have any coin that's worth a fifth of a gold, so you'd have to have at least two different kinds of coins, and... ugh. I am not solving that.
But anyway, that's going back quite a ways, with the rules saying that 30lbs is the reasonable amount for a backpack. I wonder if anyone was hollering about it back then, too. I bet they were.
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Well I'll be danged. Homes did indeed put that right there. I apologize.
However, that still doesn't qualify for always, and since 5e is built on the AD&D chassis, isn't applicable.
But yes, in Basic, prior to the early 80's revision (which did not apply the same basis), and after the initial release (which did not have that as a basis), it was indeed 300 gp weight.
No harm , no foul. Really, current edition is pretty much same as then. Backpacks are cubic foot space limit and 30lbs capacity, and coin weight is the same 10 coin per lb.
item weight was measured in relation to coin weight, but players and dms’ had to agree to dimensional shape for storage purposes.
And just as back then, one ether had to play Tetris when packing gear, or have an small army of henchmen to carry treasure back to base.
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While Earth exists in the D&D “universe” ( thanks really to Ed Greenwood) it’s never been a “D&D” world. Nor does its physics and chemistry (and biology and “Earth”Science) exactly correspond to that of the various D&D worlds. HOWEVER, at least 90+% of earthly science does correspond to the various D&D worlds - how can I say that you ask? Simple - if the sciences didn’t correspond then we the players couldn’t correctly judge what to do because the unexpected would be happening all the time. The vast majority of the sciences have to correspond for our learned responses and judgements based on Earthly consequences to work. Are there exceptions? Not really as many as you might think. Yes, objects and individuals fall instantly up to 500’ in a round, however, that fairly accurately represents the distance an object falls on earth in 6 seconds. The biggest differences come when we invoke magic but even that can be explained within the contexts of quantum and relativistic physics in many cases. Even things like owl bears can be represented as gene splicing via magic transfers - as good as micro manipulation techniques for the vast majority of us. As for backpacks, encumbrance, ration and missile counting etc, keep in mind that when you toss out a set of rules because they “slow play down” or other reasons of distaste you may be having a larger than expected impact on the game balance. Throw out rations, wandering monsters, encumberance, and getting lost and you have effectively killed the exploration/travel leg of the game and rendered the ranger (and Druid somewhat) class (es) much weaker because that leg is their forte. Like Koran and several others I consider myself an experienced outdoorsman and agree that backpacks at 30# are a bit off for real world to D&D transfers. But it’s easy enough to deal with (buy the player really but at the DMs direction) just go into the inventory and customize the packs: daypack - leave at 30#, Frame pack - increase the weight to 60-100#. Then you also have things like saddlebags that could be either carried or customized to suit the DM/Player’s ideas. One of the simplest is a “utility belt” or belt of pouches made by renaming saddlebags (or other container) to hold some amount of weight in a bunch of pouches attached to a belt. In 4e there was a magical version.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
In my campaigns I track carrying capacity but I really do not keep track of where they stuff their things. As long as they have one backpack, it has the same holding capacity as their character limit.
I also have a homebrew rule for quick-access poches. Each character has 2 belt poches that they can use to hold something small, such as a dagger, knife, potion, scroll, and they can use those items as a bonus action.
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Addressing the second point first: Nah, they do need to do that to even qualify off the bat. I live next to a station and see then do their qualifications. They have to be able to lift it. 200lbs is a bit much for a march but some ex-danish miliatry pointed out that 50lbs was what they were required to do for marching and it is the same in the IDF and US Military.
I understand multiple bags can be used and I tend to have a two sacks, a pouch, and a backpack on a character to fit everything and give me room to store some loot. I feel like backpacks just need a bit more. Havester Backpacks fit more than a Bag of Holding. Why isn't it the same for common backpacks and sacks. I just feel like they should be 60lbs or at least 50lbs while sacks which are smaller by RAW should remain at 30lbs.
Thanks for all the comments by the way all. I never have post blow up so I am happy that it did. It means I choose a good topic for discussion. Makes me proud to be a neckbeard!
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.. that's not right.
Hey, or maybe it is. I'm danish ex-military, but I served in 1991, maybe the packs simply got lighter. That could happen, we were issued **** gear. But in my day, full gear meant 36 kilos. Well, that includes rifle, 2 grenades, mags and ammo, gas mask, medkit ... and so on. Technically, the pack itself wouldn't be 36 kilo. I guess maybe you're right. Disregard this post =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
See I always disagreed with this rule. As someone who has slept in Chainmail, Scale Armor and even Plate Armor. It isn't that uncomfortable, I didn't lose any sleep and I got a good night's rest. Was ready to go the next day without any issues. With 1 or 2 exceptions anyone I know that has, were the same.
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
Wait, you guys aren't just giving your characters hammerspace (with a weight limit)?
Must not of read much Ed Greenwood to think that. Technically all fiction happens outside reality, but the fiction pertaining the Forgotten Realms included our Earth as Ed Greenwood has at times a hard time separating himself from Elminster. (Not to say he truly thinks he is one in the same, but to listen to him and read his writing it's clear Elminster is a self insert.)
So yes, All Books based in fiction are not taking place on our Earth, that isn't needed to be said, but in the Fictional version of Earth in D&D it is 100% based on our world, and due to self inserts and the authors way of writing, that version of Earth was intended to be our version of Earth. Rules are however overlaid over the setting, doesn't matter what physics say, game mechanics trumps reality.
There were several Official TSR settings based on 1st Edition D&D rules:
For modern, 3rd Edition:
And of course the Greatest Unexpected Setting:
Yes and No...
Chainmail where is all stared was a game ruleset for tabletop fantasy war gaming, which almost all modern RPGs and Table top Wargames own a dept to for helping the hobby grow, due to the inclusion of tropes found in the mid 20th century era of Fantasy fiction. That gave birth the D&D and when they had to give the rules and stories they had a setting Name it was Greyhawk. You could say Greyhawk was born in 1972 when Chainmail included Wizards and Elves. (Ironically Forgotten Realms is older... because Ed Greenwood said he got the idea for his setting in 1967. But we don't count that, as TSR and Ed would not meet until the 80s.
Back on topic please, this thread is about backpacks in the rules of D&D fifth edition
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I've never had that problem. As far as I am concerned the players have the necessary items before the they move out, unless they want something specific (nets, whips etc.).
First, the packs!
Diplomat's Pack: 36 pounds. The backpack itself is 5 pounds, and presumably doesn't count towards its own weight capacity, so inside the bag you have to fit 31 pounds. Take out the chest, which weighs 25 pounds and can hold 300 pounds. Why are you carrying that everywhere in the first place? Now you're down to just 6 pounds. Capacity: 24.
Dungeoneer's Pack: 61.5 pounds, or 56.5 excluding the bag. Wow! That's almost twice the capacity of the bag! But it has 10 days of rations (20 pounds) and 50 feet of rope (10 pounds that can hang on the side and not contribute to the weight limit), so if you take that stuff out, it's 26.5 pounds. Room enough to haul a day's worth of rations on your person. Put the rest in a cart, you madman. Why are you trying to haul 20 pounds of food through a dungeon. Capacity: 3.5.
Entertainer's Pack (not coded in Beyond as its own thing): backpack is 5. Bedroll 7, two costumes 8, five days' rations 10, waterskin 5, disguise kit 3. So that's 33 pounds plus the 5 pound bag. Remove the rations and it's a nice 13. Capacity: 17.
Explorer's Pack: 59 pounds. Again, 54, and again, remove the rations (20) and rope (10) and you're golden (24). Capacity: 6.
Priest's Pack: 24 pounds, which is actually 19. No problems, and you can also remove 4 pounds of rations. Capacity: 15.
Scholar's Pack: 10 pounds, which is actually 5. Easy. Capacity: 25.
Burglar's Pack: 47.5, or actually 42.5 pounds. Remove the rope, 37.5. This is the first one where I don't see a clean way to get everything in there. You could lose the climbing gear (8 pounds) and keep the rations (10 pounds) or vice versa, but what if you need to scale a mountain in your travels? Idk. Capacity: Let's say 2.5.
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
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Now let's add the other starting gear. I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
Artificers get a light crossbow (5), and two simple weapons. The heaviest simple weapon is a greatclub at 10 pounds. If you took two of those for some reason then you would certainly encounter problems with your mandatory dungeoneer's pack. You have 2.5 pounds to work with after your 1-pound thieves' tools, not 20. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Barbarians get a martial melee weapon, pike's the heaviest at 18, and either two handaxes (4) or a simple (greatclub is 10). So you need to get 18 pounds worth of polearm into your 6-capacity explorer's pack, along with four javelins (8). That's not going to work. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Bards get a simple weapon, which they're choosing greatclub (10), plus a musical instrument (dulcimer is 10) and a dagger (1). They can choose an entertainer's pack (13 free) or diplomat's (24 free). They should pick the diplomat's pack if they want to have the heaviest items possible. They'll have 3 extra pounds. Load-bearing: PASS.
Clerics get either a mace or warhammer, and the mace is heavier at 4 pounds. However, carrying a holy symbol in one hand and a mace in the other, they can actually put their shield (6) in the bag instead, netting 2 whole pounds. They get a simple weapon so they'll take the 10 pound greatclub. Their pack is either the explorer's (6) or the priest's (11). Neither is enough for the 16 pounds they decided to take. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Druids can take a shield. Shields weigh 6 pounds. Or they can get a 10-pound greatclub. Then they can pick another greatclub, and a druidic focus (heaviest one's 4 pounds). That's 20 pounds of crap if they're holding their focus, and their bag is the explorer's pack, which has 6 pounds free. Egads! A woeful day for the two-greatclub druid. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Fighters can choose armor or a longbow, but a longbow can occupy both hands and the armor can't. Two martial weapons? Hey, baby, that's two 18 pound pikes. A light crossbow or two handaxes... the crossbow wins at 5 pounds. He's holding his lightest weapon, the longbow, so he's hauling 41 pounds of weapons in his choice of explorer's pack (6) or dungeoneer's pack (3.5). Sadly, two pikes just doesn't fly for the unfortunate fighter. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Monks get a simple weapon (greatclub, 10), ten darts (2.5), and either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Paladin, two 18-pound pikes in the tradition of the fighter, plus 10-pound greatclub, plus the heaviest holy symbol at 2 pounds. Pack: Priest's (11) or explorer's (6). Reliquary in hand means he can't use any of his weapons, so into the bag they go, for 46 pounds. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Ranger! Two greatclubs is 20 pounds, great start. Longbow is only 2. You can tell the ranger is a bow expert because he's the first one who gets a quiver for his arrows. Everyone else jams them into their boots or through their hair. His packs are dungeoneer's (3.5) or explorer's (6). Neither is enough for his two mighty greatclubs, sadly. And as we all know, a ranger without two non-dual-wieldable greatclubs is hardly a ranger at all. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Rogue gets a rapier or a shortsword, and they both weigh 2 pounds. A shortbow (2) (with a quiver!), two daggers (2), tools (1), and a vast three choices of pack for his 5 pounds of crap to go in: Burglar's (already overstuffed), dungeoneer's (3.5), or explorer's (6). The rogue actually can't go any lower than this on his starting gear. He has to take the explorer's pack, or leave stuff behind. Load-bearing: PASS.
Sorcerer gets the ol' 10 pound greatclub, two 1-pound daggers, and an arcane focus, of which the heaviest is the 4-pound staff. Let's say he's dual-wielding daggers so he has to put the staff AND the greatclub in his bag, which of course is either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. 6 is not equal to or greater than 14, I asked the wizard. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Warlock can also have the greatclub and the staff, but he can actually take a second greatclub, putting his haul up to a mighty 24 pounds if he also dual-wields starting daggers. Very cool. Pack options are the rare scholar's pack (25), or the dungeoneer's pack (3.5). He's A-OK if he takes the scholar's pack! And what scholar doesn't carry two greatclubs everywhere he goes? Load-bearing: PASS.
Finally the Wizard. 4-pound staff is a poor start, but he can wisely take another 4-pound staff, so that's fun. A spellbook weighs 3 pounds, and his packs are scholar's (25) or explorer's (6). Only one will hold his colossal 7 pounds of precious arcane accoutrements. Load-bearing: PASS.
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Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
A bedroll would be strapped to the outside of the pack, freeing up more space inside.
The Monster Hunter's Pack comes with the Haunted One background from The Curse of Strahd at least that is where I saw it first, shows to be in the Basic Rules according to the haunted one link but I wasn't able to find it. ETA: I did find it in Van Richten's Guide To Ravenloft
As for all the writing, thanks it is very handy.
Maybe someone should ask the Crawdad on social media for some clarification on backpacks?
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Assuming that's accurate, you can add a nice 7 pounds of capacity to the entertainer's pack (17 -> 24) and explorer's pack (6 -> 13). This would allow the Monk to pass, but doesn't make a difference for anyone else.
question? Are you stuffing everything into the backpacks?
a majority of people carry only the most valuable and important items of survival usually in their backpacks, and more used and readily available accessible items somewhere close and outside of the cargo container on their back.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
Yeah. See above, and see the OP on page 1. This is a response to that.
I agree. I suggest at the very least taking most of your rations out and putting them somewhere like a cart. In fact you have to leave something behind, unless you can somehow create a massive tower of stuff that you just carry in your arms, in which case you're gonna have some real trouble fighting. I also make the assumption in my analysis that anyone who has arrows or bolts is allowed to carry them outside the backpack somewhere. It's not specified where, but I feel that's fair. You could probably do the same with daggers and handaxes, possibly even shortswords and rapiers, but I didn't want to get into all that. But leaving something behind isn't the same thing as losing it forever. I mean, I guess it might be the same, if your DM is really preposterously harsh.
Interesting. Source?
EH?
Need your source on that. Definitely wasn't that way in 1e. 2e. or earlier. Always is a pretty broad term.
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1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE
A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Well I'll be danged. Homes did indeed put that right there. I apologize.
However, that still doesn't qualify for always, and since 5e is built on the AD&D chassis, isn't applicable.
But yes, in Basic, prior to the early 80's revision (which did not apply the same basis), and after the initial release (which did not have that as a basis), it was indeed 300 gp weight.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I'm certain he'd say something that broadly misses the point, like "a character can carry as much as their Strength score allows!"
Neat! It's more complicated now. From the Basic Rules (Ch 5, Wealth > Coinage):
If one pound is 50 coins, 30 pounds is 1,500 coins! For 1500 coins to amount to 300gp, each coin would need to be worth a fifth of a gold? Am I doing my math right? Clearly we don't have any coin that's worth a fifth of a gold, so you'd have to have at least two different kinds of coins, and... ugh. I am not solving that.
But anyway, that's going back quite a ways, with the rules saying that 30lbs is the reasonable amount for a backpack. I wonder if anyone was hollering about it back then, too. I bet they were.
No harm , no foul. Really, current edition is pretty much same as then. Backpacks are cubic foot space limit and 30lbs capacity, and coin weight is the same 10 coin per lb.
item weight was measured in relation to coin weight, but players and dms’ had to agree to dimensional shape for storage purposes.
And just as back then, one ether had to play Tetris when packing gear, or have an small army of henchmen to carry treasure back to base.