People that see the “forced breeding” and “slave race” bit and get triggered or at least severely uncomfortable. Kinda ruins the fun for them.
Yes, and I can totally understand if slavery and forced breeding and so on disagrees with someone. No question.
But it's like no one seems to hear the other part of the argument.
Mind Flayers do .... the exact .... same .... thing. And then they eat their victims brains for seasoning. Oh, and mind control. And a bajillion other kinds of cruelty even the sorcerer-kings of Athas never thought of.
So why are Mind Flayers ok, but Muls, Dark Sun, and slavery isn't?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
People that see the “forced breeding” and “slave race” bit and get triggered or at least severely uncomfortable. Kinda ruins the fun for them.
Yes, and I can totally understand if slavery and forced breeding and so on disagrees with someone. No question.
But it's like no one seems to hear the other part of the argument.
Mind Flayers do .... the exact .... same .... thing. And then they eat their victims brains for seasoning. Oh, and mind control. And a bajillion other kinds of cruelty even the sorcerer-kings of Athas never thought of.
So why are Mind Flayers ok, but Muls, Dark Sun, and slavery isn't?
Because muls and Dark Sun are too uncomfortably close to real world slavery, whereas mind flayers with the whole brain eating thing are purely fantasy. And even with mind flayers Wizards is de-emphasizing the slavery aspect of their culture (at least, I haven’t seen it mentioned in any non-legacy 5e products). That’s my best guess at least.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Do we really need another Dark Sun is problematic thread? Can we maybe stay on topic of half-dwarves without inserting Dark Sun's issues into the discussion? Please?
Do we really need another Dark Sun is problematic thread? Can we maybe stay on topic of half-dwarves without inserting Dark Sun's issues into the discussion? Please?
Ah, right. Sorry.
Well, I don’t see the point of adding half-dwarves specifically. There should be variations of every race, or at least the ones that make sense. Gnomes, halflings, firbolgs, goliaths, and more. And it sounds like that’s what WotC is doing, so hopefully it’ll be well-received.
Because muls and Dark Sun are too uncomfortably close to real world slavery, whereas mind flayers with the whole brain eating thing are purely fantasy. And even with mind flayers Wizards is de-emphasizing the slavery aspect of their culture (at least, I haven’t seen it mentioned in any non-legacy 5e products). That’s my best guess at least.
So it's better because it's worse? That's so insane it makes kinda sense. Alright, I'll consider the matter closed then =)
I'll admit I haven't read a word of Mind Flayer lore for 5e.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Do we really need another Dark Sun is problematic thread? Can we maybe stay on topic of half-dwarves without inserting Dark Sun's issues into the discussion? Please?
Ah, right. Sorry.
Well, I don’t see the point of adding half-dwarves specifically. There should be variations of every race, or at least the ones that make sense. Gnomes, halflings, firbolgs, goliaths, and more. And it sounds like that’s what WotC is doing, so hopefully it’ll be well-received.
No, they’re not doing variations; you just pick a single race block to get all your features from as of the Character Creation UA. It’s a decent solution, particularly for an open-ended pool like playable races, but there’s no mechanical customization aspect to it.
Do we really need another Dark Sun is problematic thread? Can we maybe stay on topic of half-dwarves without inserting Dark Sun's issues into the discussion? Please?
Ah, right. Sorry.
Well, I don’t see the point of adding half-dwarves specifically. There should be variations of every race, or at least the ones that make sense. Gnomes, halflings, firbolgs, goliaths, and more. And it sounds like that’s what WotC is doing, so hopefully it’ll be well-received.
No, they’re not doing variations; you just pick a single race block to get all your features from as of the Character Creation UA. It’s a decent solution, particularly for an open-ended pool like playable races, but there’s no mechanical customization aspect to it.
That’s what I meant. You can have anything you want, but it’s all flavor and the mechanics remain the same. Sorry for the confusion.
I doubt muls would be "half-dwarves" at all in an updated Dark Sun. Lore-wise, they'd be more like simic hybrids from Ravnica -- a species of their own, bred/created for a specific role
Maybe, maybe not. We won't know until they do it, which doesn't look to be anytime soon.
Well, I don’t see the point of adding half-dwarves specifically. There should be variations of every race, or at least the ones that make sense. Gnomes, halflings, firbolgs, goliaths, and more. And it sounds like that’s what WotC is doing, so hopefully it’ll be well-received.
This is ultimately my take, and one that I don't think is adequately represented in the above poll.
No, they’re not doing variations; you just pick a single race block to get all your features from as of the Character Creation UA. It’s a decent solution, particularly for an open-ended pool like playable races, but there’s no mechanical customization aspect to it.
My continued preference would be for a 1st-level feat that lets you pick a trait from the other parent - maybe disallowing any natural weapons, and perhaps with reduced effectiveness in some way for traits that are PB/LR. But that can come after core.
No, they’re not doing variations; you just pick a single race block to get all your features from as of the Character Creation UA. It’s a decent solution, particularly for an open-ended pool like playable races, but there’s no mechanical customization aspect to it.
My continued preference would be for a 1st-level feat that lets you pick a trait from the other parent - maybe disallowing any natural weapons, and perhaps with reduced effectiveness in some way for traits that are PB/LR. But that can come after core.
That doesn’t sound bad in theory, but it potentially presents a recurring issue that a feature on a future race might create a broken combo. Plus while they’re making feats core instead of hypothetically optional, mixed heritages still call for DM approval, so they might not want to have a feat that’s dependent on DM approval in core.
That doesn’t sound bad in theory, but it potentially presents a recurring issue that a feature on a future race might create a broken combo. Plus while they’re making feats core instead of hypothetically optional, mixed heritages still call for DM approval, so they might not want to have a feat that’s dependent on DM approval in core.
I agree - hence me saying "that can come after core" 😛
That doesn’t sound bad in theory, but it potentially presents a recurring issue that a feature on a future race might create a broken combo. Plus while they’re making feats core instead of hypothetically optional, mixed heritages still call for DM approval, so they might not want to have a feat that’s dependent on DM approval in core.
I agree - hence me saying "that can come after core" 😛
I’m not sure I’d bank on the official team making it even to go with the next big race compilation.
No, they’re not doing variations; you just pick a single race block to get all your features from as of the Character Creation UA. It’s a decent solution, particularly for an open-ended pool like playable races, but there’s no mechanical customization aspect to it.
My continued preference would be for a 1st-level feat that lets you pick a trait from the other parent - maybe disallowing any natural weapons, and perhaps with reduced effectiveness in some way for traits that are PB/LR. But that can come after core.
Have you seen the pf2e method?
Every character gets a racial feat at character creation. And for humans, you can choose half elf or half orc as the human racial feat. It’s an interesting solution, but it’s very limited as you can only have a human/elf or human/orc. No options for a dwarf/halfling or what have you. Less choices, but makes it so you can’t have any crazy broken combos.
Every character gets a racial feat at character creation. And for humans, you can choose half elf or half orc as the human racial feat. It’s an interesting solution, but it’s very limited as you can only have a human/elf or human/orc. No options for a dwarf/halfling or what have you. Less choices, but makes it so you can’t have any crazy broken combos.
See, I think restricting it to humanoid already cuts out most of the broken stuff, I wouldn't want to restrict it to specific humanoid species. If they want to make something truly exotic in the future that can't be hybridized, there are a number of other creature types they can use for that.
I say, Dwarves cannot breed with other races because they do not reproduce the same way. Dwarves, in my completely unofficial headcanon, reproduce more like bacteria where the beard grows so large that it becomes a new dwarf. That would explain why dwarves are so protective and proud of their beards, universally, and why female dwarfs are rare in fiction (especially the sorts of fiction that D&D is founded on like Lord of The Rings).
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[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
I say, Dwarves cannot breed with other races because they do not reproduce the same way. Dwarves, in my completely unofficial headcanon, reproduce more like bacteria where the beard grows so large that it becomes a new dwarf. That would explain why dwarves are so protective and proud of their beards, universally, and why female dwarfs are rare in fiction (especially the sorts of fiction that D&D is founded on like Lord of The Rings).
Yeah that makes sense, I might use this some of my campaigns🤷♂️
I voted don’t really care but I do have an opinion. The UA rules do allow for half anything you want but not really. While you can make the features essentially anything you want mechanically you have to make them like one parent or the other and can’t mix the capabilities and features. I’m not happy with that. At the same time I do understand that most half breeds are not going to be very common and as such I don’t see the need to have a bunch of official rules on what each should be - that really is the purview of the DM and the player in conference. In early versions ( with straight up evil races) half elves were typically the product of a love match between an elf and a human while half orcs (& half Drow) were typically the products of forced relationships. To a large extent that split still exists. I can see half dwarves and even Dwelves ( half dwarf, half elf) as additional love match products - especially from adventurer parents - and they shouldn’t be forced to be one or the other mechanically. But I see this as being much more of a DM created build than it ever being introduced officially by WotC. because of this opinion I created my own version of the Dwelf: https://www.dndbeyond.com/races/737314-dwelf
If the game just stuck to the PHB races, I could see them hammering out some rules for mixing features for the various pairings, but given that there's a couple dozen different options at this point, and more undoubtedly on the way, there's no realistic way they could cover all of the possibilities while keeping things balanced and avoiding the kind of crunch you get from systems like Pathfinder, which I'm given to understand does have rules for mixing traits. The current rule is simple, balanced, and leaves the possibilities between the players and the DM.
Remember too that the 1st-level feat everyone is getting in OneD&D can be used to sprinkle in a bit of influence from your other parent. A half-high-elf-human for instance could have human traits, but represent their high elf heritage with Magic Initiate. Alternatively, they could have their traits come from the elven side, but represent their human parent's ingenuity via Skilled. Similarly, a half-orc-human could be mostly human but represent a bit of their orc parent's rowdiness with Tavern Brawler, and a half-dwarf-human could represent their dwarven side with Lightly Armored.
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Yes, and I can totally understand if slavery and forced breeding and so on disagrees with someone. No question.
But it's like no one seems to hear the other part of the argument.
Mind Flayers do .... the exact .... same .... thing. And then they eat their victims brains for seasoning. Oh, and mind control. And a bajillion other kinds of cruelty even the sorcerer-kings of Athas never thought of.
So why are Mind Flayers ok, but Muls, Dark Sun, and slavery isn't?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Because muls and Dark Sun are too uncomfortably close to real world slavery, whereas mind flayers with the whole brain eating thing are purely fantasy. And even with mind flayers Wizards is de-emphasizing the slavery aspect of their culture (at least, I haven’t seen it mentioned in any non-legacy 5e products). That’s my best guess at least.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Do we really need another Dark Sun is problematic thread? Can we maybe stay on topic of half-dwarves without inserting Dark Sun's issues into the discussion? Please?
Ah, right. Sorry.
Well, I don’t see the point of adding half-dwarves specifically. There should be variations of every race, or at least the ones that make sense. Gnomes, halflings, firbolgs, goliaths, and more. And it sounds like that’s what WotC is doing, so hopefully it’ll be well-received.
Terra Lubridia archive:
The Bloody Barnacle | The Gut | The Athene Crusader | The Jewel of Atlantis
So it's better because it's worse? That's so insane it makes kinda sense. Alright, I'll consider the matter closed then =)
I'll admit I haven't read a word of Mind Flayer lore for 5e.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
No, they’re not doing variations; you just pick a single race block to get all your features from as of the Character Creation UA. It’s a decent solution, particularly for an open-ended pool like playable races, but there’s no mechanical customization aspect to it.
That’s what I meant. You can have anything you want, but it’s all flavor and the mechanics remain the same. Sorry for the confusion.
Terra Lubridia archive:
The Bloody Barnacle | The Gut | The Athene Crusader | The Jewel of Atlantis
Maybe, maybe not. We won't know until they do it, which doesn't look to be anytime soon.
This is ultimately my take, and one that I don't think is adequately represented in the above poll.
My continued preference would be for a 1st-level feat that lets you pick a trait from the other parent - maybe disallowing any natural weapons, and perhaps with reduced effectiveness in some way for traits that are PB/LR. But that can come after core.
That doesn’t sound bad in theory, but it potentially presents a recurring issue that a feature on a future race might create a broken combo. Plus while they’re making feats core instead of hypothetically optional, mixed heritages still call for DM approval, so they might not want to have a feat that’s dependent on DM approval in core.
I agree - hence me saying "that can come after core" 😛
I’m not sure I’d bank on the official team making it even to go with the next big race compilation.
That won't stop me mentioning it. And if it never happens, I'll be fine either way.
And there’s always homebrew.
Terra Lubridia archive:
The Bloody Barnacle | The Gut | The Athene Crusader | The Jewel of Atlantis
Have you seen the pf2e method?
Every character gets a racial feat at character creation. And for humans, you can choose half elf or half orc as the human racial feat. It’s an interesting solution, but it’s very limited as you can only have a human/elf or human/orc. No options for a dwarf/halfling or what have you.
Less choices, but makes it so you can’t have any crazy broken combos.
That's basically what Critical Role proposed, yes.
See, I think restricting it to humanoid already cuts out most of the broken stuff, I wouldn't want to restrict it to specific humanoid species. If they want to make something truly exotic in the future that can't be hybridized, there are a number of other creature types they can use for that.
I say, Dwarves cannot breed with other races because they do not reproduce the same way. Dwarves, in my completely unofficial headcanon, reproduce more like bacteria where the beard grows so large that it becomes a new dwarf. That would explain why dwarves are so protective and proud of their beards, universally, and why female dwarfs are rare in fiction (especially the sorts of fiction that D&D is founded on like Lord of The Rings).
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
Yeah that makes sense, I might use this some of my campaigns🤷♂️
I voted don’t really care but I do have an opinion. The UA rules do allow for half anything you want but not really. While you can make the features essentially anything you want mechanically you have to make them like one parent or the other and can’t mix the capabilities and features. I’m not happy with that. At the same time I do understand that most half breeds are not going to be very common and as such I don’t see the need to have a bunch of official rules on what each should be - that really is the purview of the DM and the player in conference. In early versions ( with straight up evil races) half elves were typically the product of a love match between an elf and a human while half orcs (& half Drow) were typically the products of forced relationships. To a large extent that split still exists. I can see half dwarves and even Dwelves ( half dwarf, half elf) as additional love match products - especially from adventurer parents - and they shouldn’t be forced to be one or the other mechanically. But I see this as being much more of a DM created build than it ever being introduced officially by WotC.
because of this opinion I created my own version of the Dwelf: https://www.dndbeyond.com/races/737314-dwelf
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
If the game just stuck to the PHB races, I could see them hammering out some rules for mixing features for the various pairings, but given that there's a couple dozen different options at this point, and more undoubtedly on the way, there's no realistic way they could cover all of the possibilities while keeping things balanced and avoiding the kind of crunch you get from systems like Pathfinder, which I'm given to understand does have rules for mixing traits. The current rule is simple, balanced, and leaves the possibilities between the players and the DM.
Remember too that the 1st-level feat everyone is getting in OneD&D can be used to sprinkle in a bit of influence from your other parent. A half-high-elf-human for instance could have human traits, but represent their high elf heritage with Magic Initiate. Alternatively, they could have their traits come from the elven side, but represent their human parent's ingenuity via Skilled. Similarly, a half-orc-human could be mostly human but represent a bit of their orc parent's rowdiness with Tavern Brawler, and a half-dwarf-human could represent their dwarven side with Lightly Armored.