Hey Chris, what do you think of Bladesingers able to go into bladesong while wearing Elven Chain? I was honestly surprised when I saw it didn't work considering the thematic connection.
Hey Chris, what do you think of Bladesingers able to go into bladesong while wearing Elven Chain? I was honestly surprised when I saw it didn't work considering the thematic connection.
Thanks! Sean
This isn't Twitter, you can't @ people that way and Chris Perkins isn't active on these forums so you're not going to get a response.
It really bugs me how bladesinger, originally an elf-exclusive thing, doesn't play nice with other specifically elven things. See: Double-bladed scimitar, from the Eberron setting.
It really bugs me how bladesinger, originally an elf-exclusive thing, doesn't play nice with other specifically elven things. See: Double-bladed scimitar, from the Eberron setting.
That’s not a species thing, it’s a culture thing. Bladesingers are FR, at least, they first appeared in SCAG. As you point out, double bladed scimitar is Eberron. Seems to track that elves from different worlds might have some incompatible traditions.
On top of that, the Bladesinger was created for 5E years before Eberron was ported over for 5E. There's absolutely no reason why it would have tried to maintain compatibility with a book that was probably not even in early deveopment at the time of SCAG's publication. Plus, the Bladesinger is quite a strong subclass as it is and doesn't need any buffs.
Yeah I mean it’d be nice to have that but as an AL player I get that it’s not available. That said if we play the new Vecna high level adventure that spans both worlds, maybe it’s possible…
Subjective. Depends how you play Bladesingers and playing AL is a lot different than home campaigns.
Also it’s narratively thematic which is more of my point. I can fandangle a lot of items etc to get a better AC, I just think it’s right that they should be able to wear that ONE set of medium armor.
Subjective. Depends how you play Bladesingers and playing AL is a lot different than hole campaigns.
also it’s narratively thematic which is more of my point. I can fandangle a lot of items etc to get a better AC, I just think it’s right that they should be able to wear that ONE set of medium armor.
It's not subjective; the Bladesong feature says "[The effect] ends early if you [...] don medium armor". A chain shirt is medium armor, and nothing about the variants of Mithril Armor say that they become light armor, ergo they remain medium armor and trigger effects that check for it. You can make your case to the DM if you absolutely must be able to wear that specific item and they are free to override the RAW if they so wish, as with any other part of the game, but the RAW ruling is very objective.
Ergh… I wasn’t saying the current rule was subjective, it’s very clear as per the reason for this post. I was referring to the comment “Bladesinger already ahs ridiculous survivability without needing actual armor.” as subjective.
Ergh… I wasn’t saying the current rule was subjective, it’s very clear as per the reason for this post. I was referring to the comment “Bladesinger already ahs ridiculous survivability without needing actual armor.” as subjective.
They do have ridiculous survivability. +5 AC during bladesong from lvl 8 onwards if you’re using point buy, probably sooner if you aren’t. Song of Defense is expensive, but given you aren’t often taking damage anyway it’s probably worth it if it would have got past Shield anyway. Bladesinger has control spells, teleportation, bonus to move speed.
They’re designed to be able to avoid taking hits already, and fundamentally do not need Elven Chain and probably don’t want it anyway since rare studded leather gives the same amount of base AC as the rare elven chain and allows you to add your full DEX modifier, leaving you with higher overall AC. Flavour is free - you can say your bladesinger is wearing ancient elven armour if you want to, but there’s no reason for bladesingers to wear elven chain.
Hell, Dwarven Plate exists and no-one says Battleragers should be able to rage while wearing it.
Ergh… I wasn’t saying the current rule was subjective, it’s very clear as per the reason for this post. I was referring to the comment “Bladesinger already ahs ridiculous survivability without needing actual armor.” as subjective.
Except it's not.
Like, Let's look at a level 5 Bladesinger with some basic magic items shall we?
At this level you are probably rocking 18 int and at least 14 dex, giving you an AC of 17 while bladesinging, a cloak or ring of protection along with bracers will bring this up to 20 and popping shield will bring this up to 25 meaning that you have better protection then most paladins or fighters who are kitted up with magic armor.
This is just rudimentary stuff btw, I'm not even getting into specific spells you can cast to augment them beyond this.
Like... have you actually looked at the sub-spec and the suite of spells wizards get access to?
"Except it's not." "...probably rocking" "...a cloak or ring of protection along with bracers" "This is just rudimentary stuff" - Thank you for these examples of subjectivity.
How someone plays their character, as I've learned from only a few months of playing in AL and decades of home campaigns, is an incredibly diverse and oftentimes egoless endeavor. I'm not saying YOU would play it any other way but hyper-optimized, but many do and my comment of your opinion being subjective is mutually exclusive of Dungeons & Dragons. When you're able to see that, you'll understand and I do not mean that as an insult.
"Like... have you actually looked at the sub-spec and the suite of spells wizards get access to?" - Attempts at passive-aggressive insults only makes your argument look weaker. Why do that from the position of strength you believe your viewpoint is in?
I play a bladesinger and I play him within a chosen boundary of optimization but I try not to abuse (opinion) or go too far out of what I would call the realm of tastefulness when it comes to game mechanics vs character narrative. You're also very aware but are possibly intentionally leaving out that they have far fewer HPs but ALL OF THIS IS MOOT bc my post was about the fact that it's elven chain, they're bladesingers, and it fits narratively and thematically (and used to work mechanically in previous editions) but keep those shaking fists of indignation raised high and play the game you want to and I'll play mine. Have fun.
I Like how you simultaneously tried to poo-poo me for pointing out the issues with this from a power stand point and then simultaneously argued you weren't a power gamer while creating a thread arguing for an absurd power increase that isn't in line with the role of the class you purport to be championing.
Late to this discussion but honestly, while it's against RAW it's in the original rules for Bladesingers. All the way back in 2nd Edition when the sub-class was introduced it states "Bladesingers may wear no armor heavier then elven chain or studded leather." Straight out of the Complete Book of Elves. It might not be balanced, though I don't think that's a big issue. So if you go strictly by lore, yes they can wear elven chain without hindrance.
If they changed bladesong from an AC bonus to unarmored defense, they could remove the armor restrictions without balance issues, but as long as it's a stacking bonus, they really can't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
@Chris Perkins
Hey Chris, what do you think of Bladesingers able to go into bladesong while wearing Elven Chain? I was honestly surprised when I saw it didn't work considering the thematic connection.
Thanks!
Sean
This isn't Twitter, you can't @ people that way and Chris Perkins isn't active on these forums so you're not going to get a response.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I know the @ isn't active, I just thought I'd give it a try.
Meh, seeing if he might answer isn't worth joining Twitter.
RAW it’s Medium Armor, and that’s all Bladesong checks for before shutting off/not activating.
It really bugs me how bladesinger, originally an elf-exclusive thing, doesn't play nice with other specifically elven things. See: Double-bladed scimitar, from the Eberron setting.
That’s not a species thing, it’s a culture thing. Bladesingers are FR, at least, they first appeared in SCAG. As you point out, double bladed scimitar is Eberron.
Seems to track that elves from different worlds might have some incompatible traditions.
On top of that, the Bladesinger was created for 5E years before Eberron was ported over for 5E. There's absolutely no reason why it would have tried to maintain compatibility with a book that was probably not even in early deveopment at the time of SCAG's publication. Plus, the Bladesinger is quite a strong subclass as it is and doesn't need any buffs.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Bladesinger already ahs ridiculous survivability without needing actual armor.
It is known, just feels a bit wrong and imo should be retconned for Bladesingers is all.
Yeah I mean it’d be nice to have that but as an AL player I get that it’s not available. That said if we play the new Vecna high level adventure that spans both worlds, maybe it’s possible…
Subjective. Depends how you play Bladesingers and playing AL is a lot different than home campaigns.
Also it’s narratively thematic which is more of my point. I can fandangle a lot of items etc to get a better AC, I just think it’s right that they should be able to wear that ONE set of medium armor.
It's not subjective; the Bladesong feature says "[The effect] ends early if you [...] don medium armor". A chain shirt is medium armor, and nothing about the variants of Mithril Armor say that they become light armor, ergo they remain medium armor and trigger effects that check for it. You can make your case to the DM if you absolutely must be able to wear that specific item and they are free to override the RAW if they so wish, as with any other part of the game, but the RAW ruling is very objective.
Ergh… I wasn’t saying the current rule was subjective, it’s very clear as per the reason for this post. I was referring to the comment “Bladesinger already ahs ridiculous survivability without needing actual armor.” as subjective.
They do have ridiculous survivability. +5 AC during bladesong from lvl 8 onwards if you’re using point buy, probably sooner if you aren’t. Song of Defense is expensive, but given you aren’t often taking damage anyway it’s probably worth it if it would have got past Shield anyway. Bladesinger has control spells, teleportation, bonus to move speed.
They’re designed to be able to avoid taking hits already, and fundamentally do not need Elven Chain and probably don’t want it anyway since rare studded leather gives the same amount of base AC as the rare elven chain and allows you to add your full DEX modifier, leaving you with higher overall AC. Flavour is free - you can say your bladesinger is wearing ancient elven armour if you want to, but there’s no reason for bladesingers to wear elven chain.
Hell, Dwarven Plate exists and no-one says Battleragers should be able to rage while wearing it.
I can’t remember what’s supposed to go here.
Except it's not.
Like, Let's look at a level 5 Bladesinger with some basic magic items shall we?
At this level you are probably rocking 18 int and at least 14 dex, giving you an AC of 17 while bladesinging, a cloak or ring of protection along with bracers will bring this up to 20 and popping shield will bring this up to 25 meaning that you have better protection then most paladins or fighters who are kitted up with magic armor.
This is just rudimentary stuff btw, I'm not even getting into specific spells you can cast to augment them beyond this.
Like... have you actually looked at the sub-spec and the suite of spells wizards get access to?
"Except it's not."
"...probably rocking"
"...a cloak or ring of protection along with bracers"
"This is just rudimentary stuff"
- Thank you for these examples of subjectivity.
How someone plays their character, as I've learned from only a few months of playing in AL and decades of home campaigns, is an incredibly diverse and oftentimes egoless endeavor. I'm not saying YOU would play it any other way but hyper-optimized, but many do and my comment of your opinion being subjective is mutually exclusive of Dungeons & Dragons. When you're able to see that, you'll understand and I do not mean that as an insult.
"Like... have you actually looked at the sub-spec and the suite of spells wizards get access to?"
- Attempts at passive-aggressive insults only makes your argument look weaker. Why do that from the position of strength you believe your viewpoint is in?
I play a bladesinger and I play him within a chosen boundary of optimization but I try not to abuse (opinion) or go too far out of what I would call the realm of tastefulness when it comes to game mechanics vs character narrative. You're also very aware but are possibly intentionally leaving out that they have far fewer HPs but ALL OF THIS IS MOOT bc my post was about the fact that it's elven chain, they're bladesingers, and it fits narratively and thematically (and used to work mechanically in previous editions) but keep those shaking fists of indignation raised high and play the game you want to and I'll play mine. Have fun.
I Like how you simultaneously tried to poo-poo me for pointing out the issues with this from a power stand point and then simultaneously argued you weren't a power gamer while creating a thread arguing for an absurd power increase that isn't in line with the role of the class you purport to be championing.
Late to this discussion but honestly, while it's against RAW it's in the original rules for Bladesingers. All the way back in 2nd Edition when the sub-class was introduced it states "Bladesingers may wear no armor heavier then elven chain or studded leather." Straight out of the Complete Book of Elves. It might not be balanced, though I don't think that's a big issue. So if you go strictly by lore, yes they can wear elven chain without hindrance.
Lore from previous editions is irrelevant to the rules for 5E.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If they changed bladesong from an AC bonus to unarmored defense, they could remove the armor restrictions without balance issues, but as long as it's a stacking bonus, they really can't.