Just wondering how the price of magic items you find in a magic shop gets calculated? Is there more than one method? If so, which one is the most common?
It is purely DM fiat. There are rough guidelines for price ranges by rarity level. But in the end, magic item shops are basically the DM placing the items in the store, and doing it at a price they feel appropriate — basically if they think you should be able to have the item or not they’ll set a price you can afford or not.
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
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Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Thanks for the reply! I found another reference that is sometimes used, the Discerning Merchant's Price Guide. But confused, the item I wish to purchase, a Headband of Intellect, is 8000gp in the Sane guide and a suggested 450gp in the DMPG. It it simply up to the DM which he uses?
Thanks for the reply! I found another reference that is sometimes used, the Discerning Merchant's Price Guide. But confused, the item I wish to purchase, a Headband of Intellect, is 8000gp in the Sane guide and a suggested 450gp in the DMPG. It it simply up to the DM which he uses?
Do you have a link for DMPG?
Did you check which bonus is being referenced? I think I remember Headband of intellect can come with a bonus of anywhere from +1 to +6 so it may be the 450gp is for +1 and the 8K is for like +3 or something like that. I wonder if the 450 is a typo and meant to be 4,500.
It would ultimately be up to the DM yes, but I personally would find 450 a bit too low for a magical item.
The minimum price of a +1 bonus in 3e was at least 1,000gp, I think it was.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Thanks for the reply! I found another reference that is sometimes used, the Discerning Merchant's Price Guide. But confused, the item I wish to purchase, a Headband of Intellect, is 8000gp in the Sane guide and a suggested 450gp in the DMPG. It it simply up to the DM which he uses?
Do you have a link for DMPG?
Did you check which bonus is being referenced? I think I remember Headband of intellect can come with a bonus of anywhere from +1 to +6 so it may be the 450gp is for +1 and the 8K is for like +3 or something like that. I wonder if the 450 is a typo and meant to be 4,500.
It would ultimately be up to the DM yes, but I personally would find 450 a bit too low for a magical item.
The minimum price of a +1 bonus in 3e was at least 1,000gp, I think it was.
Some items are rated stupidly low in rarity and others stupidly high. The Headband of Intellect, which gives the wearer a flat 19 int, is rated as only 'uncommon.' Besides being so strangely low in rarity generally, that places it in the 101 to 500 gp price range, which is stupidly cheap. Sure it needs attunement, but it is giving a 19 stat!.
Meanwhile, +1 magical armor is treated as rare, just for +1 to AC over the normal AC of that armor.
And new DM's, who have no real clue yet how good some of these items really are take these ratings seriously....
A sample copy is here: DMP Guide Headband is on pg. 12
It doesn't say anything about bonuses...
My DM suggested I get it because I want to multiclass Wizard. I'm a 2nd level character...don't think he would have suggested that if it cost 8000gp and was impossible to obtain...
Oh and just now remembered, he said it would make my INT 19 from a 9 - so can't be a bonus, just 19 straight across for everyone.
Edit: If plus one armor is rare, it's weird the headband is uncommon, but certainly works to my character's advantage if this is the guide he's using...
To be clear on several points being discussed here:
1) The Helm of Intellect will raise you INT score to a 19 and that results in an +4 bonus to all d20 tests that allow INT bonus to apply. 2) To multiclass as a Wizard, the character requires a minimum INT score of a 13. The character also needs to maintain minimum scores associated with their initial class. A Paladin for example, requires a minimum score of a 13 in both Strength and Charisma. The Players Handbook: Chapter 6 provides details. 3) These pricing guides are not official content, from what I have seen presented thus far, and therefore should be treated as reference materials and not simply guides for pricing. As stated, the DM can set the price as they see fit. The DM can also use these items as a boon for their characters. For example, going on a quest for a characters God or Patron; solving a problem for guild, or payment form a Mage to retrieve a lost artifact. It depends on the world your table choose to structure.
A sample copy is here: DMP Guide Headband is on pg. 12
It doesn't say anything about bonuses...
My DM suggested I get it because I want to multiclass Wizard. I'm a 2nd level character...don't think he would have suggested that if it cost 8000gp and was impossible to obtain...
Oh and just now remembered, he said it would make my INT 19 from a 9 - so can't be a bonus, just 19 straight across for everyone.
Edit: If plus one armor is rare, it's weird the headband is uncommon, but certainly works to my character's advantage if this is the guide he's using...
tnx; nods,
Yeah it's different now in 5e than what I am used to.
In my day (3e), there wasn't a single Headband of intellect that just gave you a 19INT.
There were a headband of intellect +2, a headband of intellect +4, and a headband of intellect +6.
Each one added that bonus to whatever your default INT score was. So a character with a 13INT score would need a +6 headband of intellect to get a score of 19.
Beyond that though there weren't caps, so if my character already had a natural intelligence score of 20, and of course it did, a headband of intellect would not be useless to me, but rather make my score a 22, 24, or 26, based on which one worn; and I don't remember it having attunement either; very few things in 3e had attunement.
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
Removing specific prices a) more accurately simulates what purchasing this kind of specialized items would be like in the standard setting where they aren't going to have an MSRP rate and b) reinforces the fact that all the aspects of issuing magic items are subject to DM's discretion by not letting players point to the "right" price in the DMG if the DM wants to set a higher price for some reason. And it's rather inaccurate to say 5e is actively steering DMs away from using magic shops and into only randomized loot just because they don't give list prices for the items. There's just little reason to take time to spell out a formal system for "players give you a shopping list, you give them the prices", as opposed to alternatives that incorporate various degrees of randomization.
Getting the Magic Item of choice requires the following:
DM Agreement they can try. (and its made clear that it is up to the DM)
A DC Charisma (working contacts/haggling etc) check scaled to the rarity of item.
+1 bonus to the check for every week and every 100gp (min 100gp) spent in pursuit of item. (Max bonus 10)
The total of the check is evaluated against the rarity to see if the item is available.
Then there is an example pricing matrix. Not sure if quoting verbatim from the books is allowed, so I wont. But the link above will take you right to the section if you've got the book in your library. Again, its made clear that pricing is up to the DM, with advice given on how to scale pricing based on the general availability of magic / magic items in the world.
I think there is a bit of a glitch around the uncommon/rare lists (text says 15+ is uncommon, but the table links that to rare items)
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
Removing specific prices a) more accurately simulates what purchasing this kind of specialized items would be like in the standard setting where they aren't going to have an MSRP rate and b) reinforces the fact that all the aspects of issuing magic items are subject to DM's discretion by not letting players point to the "right" price in the DMG if the DM wants to set a higher price for some reason. And it's rather inaccurate to say 5e is actively steering DMs away from using magic shops and into only randomized loot just because they don't give list prices for the items. There's just little reason to take time to spell out a formal system for "players give you a shopping list, you give them the prices", as opposed to alternatives that incorporate various degrees of randomization.
But part of the reason was to steer the game away from the "magic items are part of basic, necessary equipment" that 3rd and 4th edition use where you had to have a certain amount of magic items per level and those items had to keep getting better as you leveled up. In 5E, they tried to push that magic items were not actually necessary for adventurers and even a low-powered magic item could be useful for a high level adventurer. In practice, that didn't work so well, and many of the early modules had issues due to how few magic items (especially weapons) there were.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Getting the Magic Item of choice requires the following:
DM Agreement they can try. (and its made clear that it is up to the DM)
A DC Charisma (working contacts/haggling etc) check scaled to the rarity of item.
+1 bonus to the check for every week and every 100gp (min 100gp) spent in pursuit of item. (Max bonus 10)
The total of the check is evaluated against the rarity to see if the item is available.
Then there is an example pricing matrix. Not sure if quoting verbatim from the books is allowed, so I wont. But the link above will take you right to the section if you've got the book in your library. Again, its made clear that pricing is up to the DM, with advice given on how to scale pricing based on the general availability of magic / magic items in the world.
I think there is a bit of a glitch around the uncommon/rare lists (text says 15+ is uncommon, but the table links that to rare items)
It's worth keeping in mind this is a suggestion, not hard RAW "this is how the activity must be done".
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
Removing specific prices a) more accurately simulates what purchasing this kind of specialized items would be like in the standard setting where they aren't going to have an MSRP rate and b) reinforces the fact that all the aspects of issuing magic items are subject to DM's discretion by not letting players point to the "right" price in the DMG if the DM wants to set a higher price for some reason. And it's rather inaccurate to say 5e is actively steering DMs away from using magic shops and into only randomized loot just because they don't give list prices for the items. There's just little reason to take time to spell out a formal system for "players give you a shopping list, you give them the prices", as opposed to alternatives that incorporate various degrees of randomization.
The downside is that new players when kitting out their characters will see no prices in the equipment lists so on occasion actually do think "Oh, free!"
They often do not even realize they are choosing magic items as starting equipment.
Additional downsides are not just that the rarities are often nonsensical even comparatively when comparing magic items, but also for most people, words like 'Common' or 'Uncommon' do not mean what the Devs presumably meant by them. They give the impression there really are stores where you can just walk in and buy these things off the shelf.
Just wondering how the price of magic items you find in a magic shop gets calculated? Is there more than one method? If so, which one is the most common?
I use the how much gold can I squeeze you for method. Quick read if your bargain shopping or need a sale.
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
Removing specific prices a) more accurately simulates what purchasing this kind of specialized items would be like in the standard setting where they aren't going to have an MSRP rate and b) reinforces the fact that all the aspects of issuing magic items are subject to DM's discretion by not letting players point to the "right" price in the DMG if the DM wants to set a higher price for some reason. And it's rather inaccurate to say 5e is actively steering DMs away from using magic shops and into only randomized loot just because they don't give list prices for the items. There's just little reason to take time to spell out a formal system for "players give you a shopping list, you give them the prices", as opposed to alternatives that incorporate various degrees of randomization.
The downside is that new players when kitting out their characters will see no prices in the equipment lists so on occasion actually do think "Oh, free!"
They often do not even realize they are choosing magic items as starting equipment.
Additional downsides are not just that the rarities are often nonsensical even comparatively when comparing magic items, but also for most people, words like 'Common' or 'Uncommon' do not mean what the Devs presumably meant by them. They give the impression there really are stores where you can just walk in and buy these things off the shelf.
I mean, that is kinda the idea of Common stuff, and even Uncommon in a lot of cases.
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
Removing specific prices a) more accurately simulates what purchasing this kind of specialized items would be like in the standard setting where they aren't going to have an MSRP rate and b) reinforces the fact that all the aspects of issuing magic items are subject to DM's discretion by not letting players point to the "right" price in the DMG if the DM wants to set a higher price for some reason. And it's rather inaccurate to say 5e is actively steering DMs away from using magic shops and into only randomized loot just because they don't give list prices for the items. There's just little reason to take time to spell out a formal system for "players give you a shopping list, you give them the prices", as opposed to alternatives that incorporate various degrees of randomization.
The downside is that new players when kitting out their characters will see no prices in the equipment lists so on occasion actually do think "Oh, free!"
They often do not even realize they are choosing magic items as starting equipment.
Additional downsides are not just that the rarities are often nonsensical even comparatively when comparing magic items, but also for most people, words like 'Common' or 'Uncommon' do not mean what the Devs presumably meant by them. They give the impression there really are stores where you can just walk in and buy these things off the shelf.
I mean, that is kinda the idea of Common stuff, and even Uncommon in a lot of cases.
Exactly. But they do not seem to understand the ramifications of things like a collapsing pole being common (which implies that magic powered pistons could well be a thing). Spyglass of Clairvoyance. Why spend 1,000 on a non-magical spyglass when you can have a magical one for a fraction of the cost? Locks of Trickery being common suggests that Rogues should be making most lock picking checks at disadvantage.
Gauntlets of Ogre Power, giving 19 str are merely 'uncommon.' Ditto Gloves of Thievery, which are +5 to Slight of Hand and Lockpicking. Immovable Rod, also underrated, IMO
Personally, I think, if they are going with this route, they should have said "These are the relative rarities among magic items. The rarity of magic items generally will be up to your DM." or words to that effect. And screened rarities more carefully as well.
All this affects the pricing advice they give.
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Just wondering how the price of magic items you find in a magic shop gets calculated? Is there more than one method? If so, which one is the most common?
It is purely DM fiat. There are rough guidelines for price ranges by rarity level. But in the end, magic item shops are basically the DM placing the items in the store, and doing it at a price they feel appropriate — basically if they think you should be able to have the item or not they’ll set a price you can afford or not.
I see. Thought there were charts and tables and complicated formulas, lol. Guess I'm about to find out if my DM thinks I should have one ;)
Hang on, there is something around here, gimme a sec to find it.
Sane_Magical_Prices.pdf - Google Drive
There we are.
Also you can check out older editions.
I mostly use 3e rules still for magic shop pricing as 5e for some reason has decided to steer dms away from the concept of a magic shop and encourage magic as treasure more than money as treasure for buying specific magic from a shop so dm's can have more control over what magic their players get to have.
I still prefer players getting to have at least some of what they really want rather than 'random' loot drops.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Thanks for the reply! I found another reference that is sometimes used, the Discerning Merchant's Price Guide. But confused, the item I wish to purchase, a Headband of Intellect, is 8000gp in the Sane guide and a suggested 450gp in the DMPG. It it simply up to the DM which he uses?
Do you have a link for DMPG?
Did you check which bonus is being referenced? I think I remember Headband of intellect can come with a bonus of anywhere from +1 to +6 so it may be the 450gp is for +1 and the 8K is for like +3 or something like that. I wonder if the 450 is a typo and meant to be 4,500.
It would ultimately be up to the DM yes, but I personally would find 450 a bit too low for a magical item.
The minimum price of a +1 bonus in 3e was at least 1,000gp, I think it was.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Some items are rated stupidly low in rarity and others stupidly high. The Headband of Intellect, which gives the wearer a flat 19 int, is rated as only 'uncommon.' Besides being so strangely low in rarity generally, that places it in the 101 to 500 gp price range, which is stupidly cheap. Sure it needs attunement, but it is giving a 19 stat!.
Meanwhile, +1 magical armor is treated as rare, just for +1 to AC over the normal AC of that armor.
And new DM's, who have no real clue yet how good some of these items really are take these ratings seriously....
A sample copy is here: DMP Guide Headband is on pg. 12
It doesn't say anything about bonuses...
My DM suggested I get it because I want to multiclass Wizard. I'm a 2nd level character...don't think he would have suggested that if it cost 8000gp and was impossible to obtain...
Oh and just now remembered, he said it would make my INT 19 from a 9 - so can't be a bonus, just 19 straight across for everyone.
Edit: If plus one armor is rare, it's weird the headband is uncommon, but certainly works to my character's advantage if this is the guide he's using...
To be clear on several points being discussed here:
1) The Helm of Intellect will raise you INT score to a 19 and that results in an +4 bonus to all d20 tests that allow INT bonus to apply.
2) To multiclass as a Wizard, the character requires a minimum INT score of a 13. The character also needs to maintain minimum scores associated with their initial class. A Paladin for example, requires a minimum score of a 13 in both Strength and Charisma. The Players Handbook: Chapter 6 provides details.
3) These pricing guides are not official content, from what I have seen presented thus far, and therefore should be treated as reference materials and not simply guides for pricing. As stated, the DM can set the price as they see fit. The DM can also use these items as a boon for their characters. For example, going on a quest for a characters God or Patron; solving a problem for guild, or payment form a Mage to retrieve a lost artifact. It depends on the world your table choose to structure.
Thanks for the info guys!
tnx; nods,
Yeah it's different now in 5e than what I am used to.
In my day (3e), there wasn't a single Headband of intellect that just gave you a 19INT.
There were a headband of intellect +2, a headband of intellect +4, and a headband of intellect +6.
Each one added that bonus to whatever your default INT score was. So a character with a 13INT score would need a +6 headband of intellect to get a score of 19.
Beyond that though there weren't caps, so if my character already had a natural intelligence score of 20, and of course it did, a headband of intellect would not be useless to me, but rather make my score a 22, 24, or 26, based on which one worn; and I don't remember it having attunement either; very few things in 3e had attunement.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Removing specific prices a) more accurately simulates what purchasing this kind of specialized items would be like in the standard setting where they aren't going to have an MSRP rate and b) reinforces the fact that all the aspects of issuing magic items are subject to DM's discretion by not letting players point to the "right" price in the DMG if the DM wants to set a higher price for some reason. And it's rather inaccurate to say 5e is actively steering DMs away from using magic shops and into only randomized loot just because they don't give list prices for the items. There's just little reason to take time to spell out a formal system for "players give you a shopping list, you give them the prices", as opposed to alternatives that incorporate various degrees of randomization.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/downtime-revisited#BuyingaMagicItem
Getting the Magic Item of choice requires the following:
Then there is an example pricing matrix. Not sure if quoting verbatim from the books is allowed, so I wont. But the link above will take you right to the section if you've got the book in your library. Again, its made clear that pricing is up to the DM, with advice given on how to scale pricing based on the general availability of magic / magic items in the world.
I think there is a bit of a glitch around the uncommon/rare lists (text says 15+ is uncommon, but the table links that to rare items)
Thanks! I don't have the sourcebook so can't read it but you explained it well.
But part of the reason was to steer the game away from the "magic items are part of basic, necessary equipment" that 3rd and 4th edition use where you had to have a certain amount of magic items per level and those items had to keep getting better as you leveled up. In 5E, they tried to push that magic items were not actually necessary for adventurers and even a low-powered magic item could be useful for a high level adventurer. In practice, that didn't work so well, and many of the early modules had issues due to how few magic items (especially weapons) there were.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It's worth keeping in mind this is a suggestion, not hard RAW "this is how the activity must be done".
The downside is that new players when kitting out their characters will see no prices in the equipment lists so on occasion actually do think "Oh, free!"
They often do not even realize they are choosing magic items as starting equipment.
Additional downsides are not just that the rarities are often nonsensical even comparatively when comparing magic items, but also for most people, words like 'Common' or 'Uncommon' do not mean what the Devs presumably meant by them. They give the impression there really are stores where you can just walk in and buy these things off the shelf.
I use the how much gold can I squeeze you for method. Quick read if your bargain shopping or need a sale.
[Redacted]
I mean, that is kinda the idea of Common stuff, and even Uncommon in a lot of cases.
Exactly. But they do not seem to understand the ramifications of things like a collapsing pole being common (which implies that magic powered pistons could well be a thing). Spyglass of Clairvoyance. Why spend 1,000 on a non-magical spyglass when you can have a magical one for a fraction of the cost? Locks of Trickery being common suggests that Rogues should be making most lock picking checks at disadvantage.
Gauntlets of Ogre Power, giving 19 str are merely 'uncommon.' Ditto Gloves of Thievery, which are +5 to Slight of Hand and Lockpicking. Immovable Rod, also underrated, IMO
Personally, I think, if they are going with this route, they should have said "These are the relative rarities among magic items. The rarity of magic items generally will be up to your DM." or words to that effect. And screened rarities more carefully as well.
All this affects the pricing advice they give.