Other classes got love and the Wizard got laziness.
Sorry, It was very disappointed the final version of the wizard.
To be honest, this is probably a good thing. You don't want much more than quality of life enhancements added to the most powerful class in the game - the object of the designers is to bring the other classes closer, and making major improvements to the strongest one runs counter to that goal.
There are still quality of life improvements, balancing the subclasses with each other, and removing confusing features and spell descriptions (as well as fixing broken spells of both the too good AND not worth taking variety) that can be done, but in the end all that should look minor compared to what say, monks need.
That is just how I feel about it. Illusion is the least interesting school of magic and they have never been able to make it interesting in my opinion. Making it a low rent Summoner isn't making it better at being an Illusionist, it is making it a Summoner that isn't actually good at it. It is all just a matter of opinion though. If you like it, then enjoy the subclass.
Honestly, it does fill a gap in illusions: 'summon an illusory monster' is a traditionally illusionist trick that wasn't available before the 8th level illusory dragon in existing books (I guess phantasmal killer also qualifies, but is complete trash). What they really need to do is clean up phantasmal force, as that's a spell which, depending on how the DM reads it, is anywhere from worthless to overpowered.
They needed to make an actual Illusion spell (or better yet a Subclass Feature) to fill that gap. But they didn't. They took a Conjuration spell and cut it in half and said, "That's good enough!" And that is really my point. The Illusionist is basically half@ssing an existing spell as a Subclass Feature instead of getting an actual Feature. You could literally play any Wizard and say "I summon an illusory what ever" and it be the same thing as playing an Illusionist but better because all other subclasses have supporting mechanics. After all there are no real features to being an Illusionist other than a hand full of free spells in your book, half a spell for free, and a Cantrip that can do sight and sound at the same time.
Other classes got love and the Wizard got laziness.
Sorry, It was very disappointed the final version of the wizard.
To be honest, this is probably a good thing. You don't want much more than quality of life enhancements added to the most powerful class in the game - the object of the designers is to bring the other classes closer, and making major improvements to the strongest one runs counter to that goal.
There are still quality of life improvements, balancing the subclasses with each other, and removing confusing features and spell descriptions (as well as fixing broken spells of both the too good AND not worth taking variety) that can be done, but in the end all that should look minor compared to what say, monks need.
I disagree . This is the worse and laziest approach.
You cant use this argument, other classes have the same access to level 9 broken spells like the wizard.
There does need to be more illusion and enchantment spells, I still think we also need a way in the wizard class features to create spells. It's a shame they did not go through with that.
Other classes got love and the Wizard got laziness.
Sorry, It was very disappointed the final version of the wizard.
To be honest, this is probably a good thing. You don't want much more than quality of life enhancements added to the most powerful class in the game - the object of the designers is to bring the other classes closer, and making major improvements to the strongest one runs counter to that goal.
There are still quality of life improvements, balancing the subclasses with each other, and removing confusing features and spell descriptions (as well as fixing broken spells of both the too good AND not worth taking variety) that can be done, but in the end all that should look minor compared to what say, monks need.
I disagree . This is the worse and laziest approach.
You cant use this argument, other classes have the same access to level 9 broken spells like the wizard.
It's more than just having 9th level spells, it's about all the spells they can access, including all the ones on the way to those 9th level spells. Making the most powerful class in the game more powerful doesn't fix things, it makes class balance issues worse.
To be fair, "quality of life enhancements" are not the same thing as buffs (though arguably a lot of the 'QOL' adjustments we've seen should really be called buffs). QOL adjustments deal with pain points that make the class annoying or unfun to play.
I leave every single one of these videos wanting to make new characters, but I'm going ALL IN on Abjuration wizards. What do you think about the new changes?
I've got a concept with the background feats for an Acolyte Abjuration Wizard who has to keep explaining to people that while yes he's a magic user associated with X church who can cast Cure Wounds, he's not a Cleric or a fully ordained priest.
That is just how I feel about it. Illusion is the least interesting school of magic and they have never been able to make it interesting in my opinion. Making it a low rent Summoner isn't making it better at being an Illusionist, it is making it a Summoner that isn't actually good at it. It is all just a matter of opinion though. If you like it, then enjoy the subclass.
I'm still confused about what you think high-level illusionists should be able to do then, if not have their illusions come to life. That's just the bread and butter of the archetype eventually.
I like some of the illusions (especially summoning illusionary monsters). But the changes are trivial, and frankly the wizard didn't need buffs.
The "buffs" are either just quality of life stuff (like the knowledge skill Expertise to make them even more of a nerd or the ability to use their book as a focus), or stuff that benefits the whole party (like swapping in that one spell everyone needs on a short rest.) Which is why "wizard didn't need buffs" is overly simplistic, something like the spell swap is just as likely to help the entire group.
I leave every single one of these videos wanting to make new characters, but I'm going ALL IN on Abjuration wizards. What do you think about the new changes?
I've got a concept with the background feats for an Acolyte Abjuration Wizard who has to keep explaining to people that while yes he's a magic user associated with X church who can cast Cure Wounds, he's not a Cleric or a fully ordained priest.
To be fair, if the acolyte has the suspected feat of magic initiate cleric than the wizard can have cure wounds as part of his spells available.
That is just how I feel about it. Illusion is the least interesting school of magic and they have never been able to make it interesting in my opinion. Making it a low rent Summoner isn't making it better at being an Illusionist, it is making it a Summoner that isn't actually good at it. It is all just a matter of opinion though. If you like it, then enjoy the subclass.
I'm still confused about what you think high-level illusionists should be able to do then, if not have their illusions come to life. That's just the bread and butter of the archetype eventually.
Ok then you tell me what an Illusionist does that can't be done by every other Wizard of any Subclass?
I don't care that their "Illusions come to life" That isn't a class feature that does anything. All of the other Subclasses have some meaningful mechanic that actually does something that other Subclasses can't do.
And I don't know what they should be able to do and neither does anyone else. That is what I have been saying this whole time lol. Illusionist should not exist as a subclass unless it can do something mechanically that no other Wizard can do.
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Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Ok then you tell me what an Illusionist does that can't be done by every other Wizard of any Subclass?
I don't care that their "Illusions come to life" That isn't a class feature that does anything. All of the other Subclasses have some meaningful mechanic that actually does something that other Subclasses can't do.
They have one feature that summons living illusions. One. All the rest are completely unique. They can be sneakier than every other wizard, cast illusions while hiding, fake out attackers, and Looney Tunes bridge their allies across a chasm before yanking it out from under their pursuers.
I thought that it was kind of funny that the way to make Illusionist better is to give it free casting of a spell from another school of magic.
Welcome to D&D, that's how every Shadow Illusion spell worked in the past 😛See Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation, and Shades from 3.5 for example.
I remember that, but all that really says is that Illusion has never been able to stand on it's own feet. I know that the Illusionist is a throw back to the ancient days of yore, but has been 50 years of trying and it still isn't any better.
They really should have updated Necromancer instead.
While I think that Illusionist is ok as a Subclass, I would have rather had Necromancer as well.
Of the 4 subclasses we are getting I think Abjurer and Diviner are the my favorites. Evoker is still a solid choice if all you really care about is damage and Illusion is fine, but I am not the "trickster" type of player so it really has the least overall appeal for me.
Honestly dnd needs to release a necromancy book like in 3.5 (Libris Mortis) and elaborate the science and morals of necromancy and undead.
I still have the 2nd edition Complete Necromancer in a box somewhere in my closet. I ended up making a Deathslayer Necromancer from it, and was promptly asked to never play him again, on account of him powering through what was supposed to be a challenging encounter like Darth Vader in the Rogue One hallway scene. The DM's description at the time was "Like Sherman through Georgia"
Honestly dnd needs to release a necromancy book like in 3.5 (Libris Mortis) and elaborate the science and morals of necromancy and undead.
Strahd's Crypt of Everything. They could put Necromancer Wizard, Undead Warlock, Grave Cleric, Phantom Rogue, Spirit Bard, Spores Druid, Shadow Sorcerer, and Conquest Paladin in there. I don't know what they would put in there for Monk or Barbarian though.
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Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Strahd's Crypt of Everything. They could put Necromancer Wizard, Undead Warlock, Grave Cleric, Phantom Rogue, Spirit Bard, Spores Druid, Shadow Sorcerer, and Conquest Paladin in there. I don't know what they would put in there for Monk or Barbarian though.
Long Death for Monk.'
(The death Barbarian is Zealot imo, but we're getting that already)
Strahd's Crypt of Everything. They could put Necromancer Wizard, Undead Warlock, Grave Cleric, Phantom Rogue, Spirit Bard, Spores Druid, Shadow Sorcerer, and Conquest Paladin in there. I don't know what they would put in there for Monk or Barbarian though.
Long Death for Monk.'
(The death Barbarian is Zealot imo, but we're getting that already)
Good call! Forgot about Long Death. I guess they could come up with a new Barbarian to fit the theme, but you're right about Zealot.
To be honest, this is probably a good thing. You don't want much more than quality of life enhancements added to the most powerful class in the game - the object of the designers is to bring the other classes closer, and making major improvements to the strongest one runs counter to that goal.
There are still quality of life improvements, balancing the subclasses with each other, and removing confusing features and spell descriptions (as well as fixing broken spells of both the too good AND not worth taking variety) that can be done, but in the end all that should look minor compared to what say, monks need.
They needed to make an actual Illusion spell (or better yet a Subclass Feature) to fill that gap. But they didn't. They took a Conjuration spell and cut it in half and said, "That's good enough!" And that is really my point. The Illusionist is basically half@ssing an existing spell as a Subclass Feature instead of getting an actual Feature. You could literally play any Wizard and say "I summon an illusory what ever" and it be the same thing as playing an Illusionist but better because all other subclasses have supporting mechanics. After all there are no real features to being an Illusionist other than a hand full of free spells in your book, half a spell for free, and a Cantrip that can do sight and sound at the same time.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
I disagree . This is the worse and laziest approach.
You cant use this argument, other classes have the same access to level 9 broken spells like the wizard.
There does need to be more illusion and enchantment spells, I still think we also need a way in the wizard class features to create spells. It's a shame they did not go through with that.
It's more than just having 9th level spells, it's about all the spells they can access, including all the ones on the way to those 9th level spells. Making the most powerful class in the game more powerful doesn't fix things, it makes class balance issues worse.
To be fair, "quality of life enhancements" are not the same thing as buffs (though arguably a lot of the 'QOL' adjustments we've seen should really be called buffs). QOL adjustments deal with pain points that make the class annoying or unfun to play.
I've got a concept with the background feats for an Acolyte Abjuration Wizard who has to keep explaining to people that while yes he's a magic user associated with X church who can cast Cure Wounds, he's not a Cleric or a fully ordained priest.
I'm still confused about what you think high-level illusionists should be able to do then, if not have their illusions come to life. That's just the bread and butter of the archetype eventually.
The "buffs" are either just quality of life stuff (like the knowledge skill Expertise to make them even more of a nerd or the ability to use their book as a focus), or stuff that benefits the whole party (like swapping in that one spell everyone needs on a short rest.) Which is why "wizard didn't need buffs" is overly simplistic, something like the spell swap is just as likely to help the entire group.
I never made a wizard but Illusionist looks badass
To be fair, if the acolyte has the suspected feat of magic initiate cleric than the wizard can have cure wounds as part of his spells available.
Ok then you tell me what an Illusionist does that can't be done by every other Wizard of any Subclass?
I don't care that their "Illusions come to life" That isn't a class feature that does anything. All of the other Subclasses have some meaningful mechanic that actually does something that other Subclasses can't do.
And I don't know what they should be able to do and neither does anyone else. That is what I have been saying this whole time lol. Illusionist should not exist as a subclass unless it can do something mechanically that no other Wizard can do.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
They have one feature that summons living illusions. One. All the rest are completely unique. They can be sneakier than every other wizard, cast illusions while hiding, fake out attackers, and Looney Tunes bridge their allies across a chasm before yanking it out from under their pursuers.
Speak for yourself.
While I think that Illusionist is ok as a Subclass, I would have rather had Necromancer as well.
Of the 4 subclasses we are getting I think Abjurer and Diviner are the my favorites. Evoker is still a solid choice if all you really care about is damage and Illusion is fine, but I am not the "trickster" type of player so it really has the least overall appeal for me.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Honestly dnd needs to release a necromancy book like in 3.5 (Libris Mortis) and elaborate the science and morals of necromancy and undead.
I still have the 2nd edition Complete Necromancer in a box somewhere in my closet. I ended up making a Deathslayer Necromancer from it, and was promptly asked to never play him again, on account of him powering through what was supposed to be a challenging encounter like Darth Vader in the Rogue One hallway scene. The DM's description at the time was "Like Sherman through Georgia"
Strahd's Crypt of Everything. They could put Necromancer Wizard, Undead Warlock, Grave Cleric, Phantom Rogue, Spirit Bard, Spores Druid, Shadow Sorcerer, and Conquest Paladin in there. I don't know what they would put in there for Monk or Barbarian though.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Long Death for Monk.'
(The death Barbarian is Zealot imo, but we're getting that already)
Good call! Forgot about Long Death. I guess they could come up with a new Barbarian to fit the theme, but you're right about Zealot.
Edit: I also forgot Swarm Ranger.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Might be a bit of a stretch, but the Anscestors Barbarian might be a good fit.
Ancestors is a good choice. That just leaves Fighter then.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)