a cleric of Mystra with acolyte background not being able to be proficient in arcana is an example of the issues and concerns people have about these new 2024 rules
Did they change the rules on skill selection in a way I'm not aware of? A first-level cleric with the acolyte background can be proficient in arcana
I don’t think we know for certain (as we don’t have the final published versions), but Arcana isn’t in the skill proficiencies for either the Acolyte or the Cleric in the UA documents (nor, for that matter, in the 2014 PHB). The only way I can see that a 2014 Cleric with the Acolyte background could get Arcana at level 1 (other than from a racial feature, such as variant Human) was to choose the Knowledge domain.
No, that's incorrect. There's overlap between the skills available to clerics and acolytes, which means if you select, say, Religion as one of your cleric proficiencies, you can't then get it again from acolyte and can choose Arcana instead
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
a cleric of Mystra with acolyte background not being able to be proficient in arcana is an example of the issues and concerns people have about these new 2024 rules
Did they change the rules on skill selection in a way I'm not aware of? A first-level cleric with the acolyte background can be proficient in arcana
I don’t think we know for certain (as we don’t have the final published versions), but Arcana isn’t in the skill proficiencies for either the Acolyte or the Cleric in the UA documents (nor, for that matter, in the 2014 PHB). The only way I can see that a 2014 Cleric with the Acolyte background could get Arcana at level 1 (other than from a racial feature, such as variant Human) was to choose the Knowledge domain.
No, that's incorrect. There's overlap between the skills available to clerics and acolytes, which means if you select, say, Religion as one of your cleric proficiencies, you can't then get it again from acolyte and can choose Arcana instead
Is that with regard to the 2024 rules? Do we know if there’s anything in the baseline 2024 PHB that permits swapping of skill proficiencies gained from the background? I know that custom building backgrounds was the default version in UA1, but I’d gathered that customisation was relegated to the DMG. I presume that is to minimise decision overload for newer players. I think I’ll be allowing custom backgrounds when I DM though. My point though was, even with the most restrictive version of the character creation rules (as I understand them prior to the PHB actually being available), there are other strategies available to achieve one’s character concept. In this case, perhaps the Sage background would fit a scholarly Cleric of Mystra better than the Acolyte.
a cleric of Mystra with acolyte background not being able to be proficient in arcana is an example of the issues and concerns people have about these new 2024 rules
Did they change the rules on skill selection in a way I'm not aware of? A first-level cleric with the acolyte background can be proficient in arcana
I don’t think we know for certain (as we don’t have the final published versions), but Arcana isn’t in the skill proficiencies for either the Acolyte or the Cleric in the UA documents (nor, for that matter, in the 2014 PHB). The only way I can see that a 2014 Cleric with the Acolyte background could get Arcana at level 1 (other than from a racial feature, such as variant Human) was to choose the Knowledge domain.
No, that's incorrect. There's overlap between the skills available to clerics and acolytes, which means if you select, say, Religion as one of your cleric proficiencies, you can't then get it again from acolyte and can choose Arcana instead
Is that with regard to the 2024 rules? Do we know if there’s anything in the baseline 2024 PHB that permits swapping of skill proficiencies gained from the background?
That was literally the question I asked in the post you initially responded to. Because it's very much in the 2014 PHB, and there's no logical reason I can think of to remove it
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
a cleric of Mystra with acolyte background not being able to be proficient in arcana is an example of the issues and concerns people have about these new 2024 rules
Did they change the rules on skill selection in a way I'm not aware of? A first-level cleric with the acolyte background can be proficient in arcana
I don’t think we know for certain (as we don’t have the final published versions), but Arcana isn’t in the skill proficiencies for either the Acolyte or the Cleric in the UA documents (nor, for that matter, in the 2014 PHB). The only way I can see that a 2014 Cleric with the Acolyte background could get Arcana at level 1 (other than from a racial feature, such as variant Human) was to choose the Knowledge domain.
No, that's incorrect. There's overlap between the skills available to clerics and acolytes, which means if you select, say, Religion as one of your cleric proficiencies, you can't then get it again from acolyte and can choose Arcana instead
Is that with regard to the 2024 rules? Do we know if there’s anything in the baseline 2024 PHB that permits swapping of skill proficiencies gained from the background?
That was literally the question I asked in the post you initially responded to. Because it's very much in the 2014 PHB, and there's no logical reason I can think of to remove it
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
Divine Intervention, going by the article, just seems to effectively be a 5th level slot that doesn't need material components. Very nice, but I don't see it as game breaking?
The only potentially broken thing is that it takes an action no matter the original casting time of the spell. So spells like Hallow and Restoration and Raise Dead become usable in combat. Again though, most long-casting-time spells on the Cleric list aren't that bad as an action, so they should focus on nerfing the ones that aren't (again, like Hallow.)
I did not see a mention that the casting time for the spell requested from Divine Intervention was changed. I thought the UA Playtest document said asking for Divine Intervention takes 1 magic action, but I did not interpret the text as meaning that 1 magic action is the new casting time for the spell. I read that you simply started casting the spell, and it takes the same amount of time as in the spell text. So, Hallow isn't a problem if it still takes 24 hours to cast.
"As a Magic action, choose any Divine spell of 5th level or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing material components."
Divine Intervention, going by the article, just seems to effectively be a 5th level slot that doesn't need material components. Very nice, but I don't see it as game breaking?
The only potentially broken thing is that it takes an action no matter the original casting time of the spell. So spells like Hallow and Restoration and Raise Dead become usable in combat. Again though, most long-casting-time spells on the Cleric list aren't that bad as an action, so they should focus on nerfing the ones that aren't (again, like Hallow.)
I did not see a mention that the casting time for the spell requested from Divine Intervention was changed. I thought the UA Playtest document said asking for Divine Intervention takes 1 magic action, but I did not interpret the text as meaning that 1 magic action is the new casting time for the spell. I read that you simply started casting the spell, and it takes the same amount of time as in the spell text. So, Hallow isn't a problem if it still takes 24 hours to cast.
"As a Magic action, choose any Divine spell of 5th level or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing material components."
Divine Intervention overrides the casting time of the original spell. Crawford specifically used Raise Dead mid-combat as an example of what they wanted clerics to use this on, and as the normal casting time of Raise Dead is 1 Hour, that would be impossible to do during combat without such an override.
Crawford specifically used Raise Dead mid-combat as an example of what they wanted clerics to use this on, and as the normal casting time of Raise Dead is 1 Hour, that would be impossible to do during combat without such an override.
Can you show me where Crawford mentioned that? I found one video on the new cleric class, and from 12:00 to 14:10, he talks about Divine Intervention and Raise Dead as one spell that can be cast. However, I did not discover an override or mid-combat casting of Raise Dead in the transcript.
Crawford specifically used Raise Dead mid-combat as an example of what they wanted clerics to use this on, and as the normal casting time of Raise Dead is 1 Hour, that would be impossible to do during combat without such an override.
Can you show me where Crawford mentioned that? I found one video on the new cleric class, and from 12:00 to 14:10, he talks about Divine Intervention and Raise Dead as one spell that can be cast. However, I did not discover an override or mid-combat casting of Raise Dead in the transcript.
At 10th level, Divine Intervention is gained. It takes a single action to use, has automatic success, and using it casts the spell. Any 5th level or lower spell, with no material component cost.
Crawford specifically used Raise Dead mid-combat as an example of what they wanted clerics to use this on, and as the normal casting time of Raise Dead is 1 Hour, that would be impossible to do during combat without such an override.
Can you show me where Crawford mentioned that? I found one video on the new cleric class, and from 12:00 to 14:10, he talks about Divine Intervention and Raise Dead as one spell that can be cast. However, I did not discover an override or mid-combat casting of Raise Dead in the transcript.
He says "any 5th-level or lower cleric spell that doesn't require a reaction to cast." The Cleric Article goes on to specifically say it's a Magic Action to use (see the preview table), and reiterates what Crawford said - any 5th-level or lower Cleric spell that isn't a Reaction. Specific trumps general, and it's specifically a Magic Action to use, thus you can activate it in combat (as that's the primary time Actions matter.)
Treantmonk, who has the actual book, confirmed that's how it works in his reaction video.
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No, that's incorrect. There's overlap between the skills available to clerics and acolytes, which means if you select, say, Religion as one of your cleric proficiencies, you can't then get it again from acolyte and can choose Arcana instead
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Is that with regard to the 2024 rules? Do we know if there’s anything in the baseline 2024 PHB that permits swapping of skill proficiencies gained from the background? I know that custom building backgrounds was the default version in UA1, but I’d gathered that customisation was relegated to the DMG. I presume that is to minimise decision overload for newer players. I think I’ll be allowing custom backgrounds when I DM though.
My point though was, even with the most restrictive version of the character creation rules (as I understand them prior to the PHB actually being available), there are other strategies available to achieve one’s character concept. In this case, perhaps the Sage background would fit a scholarly Cleric of Mystra better than the Acolyte.
That was literally the question I asked in the post you initially responded to. Because it's very much in the 2014 PHB, and there's no logical reason I can think of to remove it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ah! Never noticed that rule before!
I did not see a mention that the casting time for the spell requested from Divine Intervention was changed. I thought the UA Playtest document said asking for Divine Intervention takes 1 magic action, but I did not interpret the text as meaning that 1 magic action is the new casting time for the spell. I read that you simply started casting the spell, and it takes the same amount of time as in the spell text. So, Hallow isn't a problem if it still takes 24 hours to cast.
"As a Magic action, choose any Divine spell of 5th level or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing material components."
Divine Intervention overrides the casting time of the original spell. Crawford specifically used Raise Dead mid-combat as an example of what they wanted clerics to use this on, and as the normal casting time of Raise Dead is 1 Hour, that would be impossible to do during combat without such an override.
Can you show me where Crawford mentioned that? I found one video on the new cleric class, and from 12:00 to 14:10, he talks about Divine Intervention and Raise Dead as one spell that can be cast. However, I did not discover an override or mid-combat casting of Raise Dead in the transcript.
At 10th level, Divine Intervention is gained. It takes a single action to use, has automatic success, and using it casts the spell. Any 5th level or lower spell, with no material component cost.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
He says "any 5th-level or lower cleric spell that doesn't require a reaction to cast." The Cleric Article goes on to specifically say it's a Magic Action to use (see the preview table), and reiterates what Crawford said - any 5th-level or lower Cleric spell that isn't a Reaction. Specific trumps general, and it's specifically a Magic Action to use, thus you can activate it in combat (as that's the primary time Actions matter.)
Treantmonk, who has the actual book, confirmed that's how it works in his reaction video.