For those who didn't see. A number of game news sites (inks below) were reporting that WotC announced some more (not many, but some) details about the new VTT. I'll try to summarize what I've seen from the different sources.
First, its going to be called Project Sigil.
It will integrate with dndbeyond.
It will be a standalone app on PC with plans for mobile and console.
It will include character models from BG3 (Karlach and Astarion were shown).
There may be homebrew support.
I've seen some say the character models are static, but others say the spells have animations. I'm not clear on just how animated it is.
It will be "free to play" is what I've seen in most places. In others, it says its free with your dndbeyond subscription (which is also free, I suppose) though I didn't see details about free subscription vs. hero tier vs. master tier vs some other unknown tier. In others it says subscribers get perks, though they don't go into what those perks are (and again, no mention of sub tier). So, I'm a bit unclear on the details of exactly how the payments will work, and how much you get for any given price, and how "free" free is.
And, of course, there's still more Gen Con, and an Aug. 4 panel called the digital future of D&D, so maybe more details then? Probably I missed a few things, and a few articles but please add more if you notice something.
It isn't primarily about implementing the D&D rules, it's primarily about being a tabletop simulator, so for monster homebrew you could probably just use a D&D beyond monster homebrew and use the monster sheet in exactly the way you'd do it on DDB (or using Beyond20 with roll20, or some such).
It sounds like they're concerned about allowing people to import models. Which I find a bit suspect, there's no reason it would be any more of a problem than it is in, say, Tabletop Simulator (sure, you can create a degenerate model that will cause people to crash, but for a social game the answer telling people "don't do that" and for more anonymous play, just disable uploading).
Those character models do not look designed to have animations. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the models they offer will be the same as are used for physical minis.
It isn't primarily about implementing the D&D rules, it's primarily about being a tabletop simulator, so for monster homebrew you could probably just use a D&D beyond monster homebrew and use the monster sheet in exactly the way you'd do it on DDB (or using Beyond20 with roll20, or some such).
It sounds like they're concerned about allowing people to import models. Which I find a bit suspect, there's no reason it would be any more of a problem than it is in, say, Tabletop Simulator (sure, you can create a degenerate model that will cause people to crash, but for a social game the answer telling people "don't do that" and for more anonymous play, just disable uploading).
Those character models do not look designed to have animations. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the models they offer will be the same as are used for physical minis.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
It isn't primarily about implementing the D&D rules, it's primarily about being a tabletop simulator, so for monster homebrew you could probably just use a D&D beyond monster homebrew and use the monster sheet in exactly the way you'd do it on DDB (or using Beyond20 with roll20, or some such).
This is pretty much guaranteed. The D&D rules are hard, and any automated enforcement will clash with DMs who want to do something weird.
It sounds like they're concerned about allowing people to import models. Which I find a bit suspect, there's no reason it would be any more of a problem than it is in, say, Tabletop Simulator (sure, you can create a degenerate model that will cause people to crash, but for a social game the answer telling people "don't do that" and for more anonymous play, just disable uploading).
I'm pretty sure they don't want the plague of genitalia that would result. Tabletop simulator may not care, but they're not the shiny new feature for a major media brand that's played by kids. It's a PR nightmare in the making.
Those character models do not look designed to have animations. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the models they offer will be the same as are used for physical minis.
I expect something like hero forge at some point, likely not launch, with fancier clothes, weapons, etc., for sale.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
Eh. As long as it's usable without shelling out more than a trivial amount of cash, I think they should be encouraged to go wild selling hats for miniatures. It's a way to keep the money people happy while not messing with the actual game. But that's me.
I'm more concerned by:
Mac support
Interoperability with Maps for those who won't or can't use it
It isn't primarily about implementing the D&D rules, it's primarily about being a tabletop simulator, so for monster homebrew you could probably just use a D&D beyond monster homebrew and use the monster sheet in exactly the way you'd do it on DDB (or using Beyond20 with roll20, or some such).
It sounds like they're concerned about allowing people to import models. Which I find a bit suspect, there's no reason it would be any more of a problem than it is in, say, Tabletop Simulator (sure, you can create a degenerate model that will cause people to crash, but for a social game the answer telling people "don't do that" and for more anonymous play, just disable uploading).
Those character models do not look designed to have animations. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the models they offer will be the same as are used for physical minis.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
I mean, if they want to MT figures and map illustrations and animations, so what? Plenty of people have played with generic tokens on basic grid paper since D&D started, and even on Roll20 some groups will have an equivalent experience. Granted, my take is they can't put up paywalls too soon since they're the latecomers to the VTT market and so need to entice people to get personally invested before they start making payments. So I figure they'll make a decent toy chest free or at least only behind one of the basic subscriptions, with further bells and whistles as MT's.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
I can upload any art I want, and even draw my own and upload it. So yeah they have a marketplace, I'm not upset about buying books from DnDB, what I don't want is to have to pay for hundreds of tiny extras just to make the maps and monsters I want to run a D&D game.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
I can upload any art I want, and even draw my own and upload it. So yeah they have a marketplace, I'm not upset about buying books from DnDB, what I don't want is to have to pay for hundreds of tiny extras just to make the maps and monsters I want to run a D&D game.
They sell cosmetics too, was my point. Animations, tokens, maps, tiles etc. It's a double standard any way you slice it.
And if what you want is a VTT where you can use whatever art you want, Maps exists too.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
I can upload any art I want, and even draw my own and upload it. So yeah they have a marketplace, I'm not upset about buying books from DnDB, what I don't want is to have to pay for hundreds of tiny extras just to make the maps and monsters I want to run a D&D game.
They sell cosmetics too, was my point. Animations, tokens, maps, tiles etc. It's a double standard any way you slice it.
And if what you want is a VTT where you can use whatever art you want, Maps exists too.
It's not, if I can upload, create, and make my own they they can sell whatever for the lazy. But if you can't import, and can't create new, then no way in hell would I use it.
Roll20 has a vary active marketplace, 90% of what is sold is made by independent creators, so even when buying a microtransaction from R20 you are still directly supporting the content creator. The words used so far about the D&D VTT make it clear this is not what they are planning. And that is why I am not in the least bit interested. If you can not tell the difference of why Roll20 is fine, and what has been said so far with D&D VTT is not, than you have a difference in morality that I can not communicate with.
edit: It's not about the money, it's who gets the money, and are you allowed to make your own.
I can upload any art I want, and even draw my own and upload it. So yeah they have a marketplace, I'm not upset about buying books from DnDB, what I don't want is to have to pay for hundreds of tiny extras just to make the maps and monsters I want to run a D&D game.
Creating 3d models is not the same as 2d art. As for the amount you'd have to pay...I expect it depends on what sort of quality you expect. In the physical world, there are people who play on a Chessex battle map, scrawled on with wet erase markers, and using whatever random objects are in the game room as tokens -- dice, coins, cereal box toys, maybe someone has a box of a dozen minis; total investment in the tens of dollars. There are other people who build or buy terrain models, and collect large numbers of detailed, lovingly painted miniatures, representing thousands of dollars. I would expect the free version of the D&D VTT to be somewhere between those extremes -- your library of free minis isn't super large, but it's adequate as long as you aren't picky about them being a perfect match for the monster.
True, but I want the option to make my own, as I'm someone experienced in this, and well I know a lot of people who do 3d modeling. And if we can import our own, then making the files will be no big deal. If their "market" allows 3rd party creators, and importing of premade 3d models from say Heroforge, once again no big. If WotC is the only source of the 3d assists and they want to nickel and dime them all, this isn't even an option worth looking at. Foundry, Roll20, talespire and others all have outstanding 3rd party creators making stuff, and they allow you to make your own. Talesspire which is a 3D VTT allows importing of 3D models to include the file type used by Heroforge.
So yeah, making art is a skill, and sure not everyone has it, but in the world of D&D content creators, more of them work independently than those who work at WotC. I would also rather pay independent creators than a massive corporation.
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
While I also hate micro transactions, one person’s micro transaction is another person’s only buying what they need. Lots of people here were (rightly) upset when they removed buying individual subclasses. Seems like that’s a kind of micro transaction. Also, I feel like micro transactions are more of an issue in PvP video games where you can pay to win. So if my mini just has a normal sword instead of their sunblade. I’ll still know what it actually has. So maybe not as much of a problem if it’s cosmetic. And I don’t see how it could be much else.
What I think would be cool, as someone who doesn’t use digital, is if anything you buy an adventure digitally you automatically get the maps and minis to be able to run it.
What I think would be cool, as someone who doesn’t use digital, is if anything you buy an adventure digitally you automatically get the maps and minis to be able to run it.
While I'm sure something of the sort will be available because it's an obvious opportunity, it becomes a little tricky if you already have some of the things that come with the adventure.
The idea of the miniatures is the only part worth note to me. I'd be happier if they focused on more and higher-quality imports into existing VTTs... there's plenty of tabletops as it is and only so much money/time.
I don't trust microtransations because the philosophy is often to make the product less enjoyable if you aren't buying them (otherwise why would people buy them?) and it's more difficult to predict costs long-term. It does depend on how they're handled, but they're often bundled with other, crappier practices.
I guess WotC will bet for the adventage of collabs, appearing characters and creatures from other IPs, for example husks and mist monsters from Fortnite: Save the World
Here some suggestion:
Virtual tabletop with an AI as DM for players who bought Hero Quest but they can't find friends to play with.
A mode where the player starts with a warlord and a little group, and later she rules an army for epic battles style Warhammer: Total War.
Solo mode to playtest homemade ideas, for example new PC species or update of classes like the martial adepts and incarnum soulmelders.
Now I am thinking about the option to can produce your own machinima videos, or something like gamebooks (Endless Quest or Choose your own Adventure) working like those otome videogames (dating sims and that type of things), for example an interactive novel about a new student in Stryxhaven academy.
Now I am thinking about the option to can produce your own machinima videos, or something like gamebooks (Endless Quest or Choose your own Adventure) working like those otome videogames (dating sims and that type of things), for example an interactive novel about a new student in Stryxhaven academy.
I really, really doubt there'll be any kind of scripting at all.
I mean those stories wouldn't be created by WotC team but by own players themself. WotC only would offer the creative tools, like Fortnite: Creative mode.
Of course maybe we would need some age rating, because rude language and that type of things. Ravenloft and Witchlight can't be in the same table, can they?
WotC has to offer something different, anything couldn't be imitated by rival companies.
Other option could be offering retrocompatible videogames, where you could use skins or cosmetic element for both. A title could be like Sims Medieval, but where you could use the "virtual miniatures". Then some players would buy it for the animations, and thanks these to produce their own machinima videos ( = animations using the software of videogames).
Attended the VTT talk. Be wary of the YouTube people presenting "information" on their "insider look" from a few days ago. I've seen lots of bad takes. I'm very much encouraged by what they said. The digital VTT will be a way to play, but not the only way to play. Will first be D&D focused and will implement the rules like other VTTs. Homebrew stuff will be allowed. Books aren't going away. Seems like a lot of what they are planning will really be based on how people are using the VTT coming out of Betas.
Looks like they are focused right now on making it so DMs can build adventures in it. I imagine a lot of this will be them giving us the same tools they use (dog fooding). Still unsure of the pricing (that question was asked but not clearly answered). My suggestion here is at least let the DM pay to cover the costs of players at some level. If my players have to pay, I won't use it. If the value is right (storage space, options, free content, etc) I'm willing to pay extra (See what Roll20 does for prem as an example), and can see cases where some players want to share costs, but if my players have to pay, I'll nope right out.
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For those who didn't see. A number of game news sites (inks below) were reporting that WotC announced some more (not many, but some) details about the new VTT. I'll try to summarize what I've seen from the different sources.
First, its going to be called Project Sigil.
It will integrate with dndbeyond.
It will be a standalone app on PC with plans for mobile and console.
It will include character models from BG3 (Karlach and Astarion were shown).
There may be homebrew support.
I've seen some say the character models are static, but others say the spells have animations. I'm not clear on just how animated it is.
Closed Beta starts this fall. Sign up here.
It will be "free to play" is what I've seen in most places. In others, it says its free with your dndbeyond subscription (which is also free, I suppose) though I didn't see details about free subscription vs. hero tier vs. master tier vs some other unknown tier. In others it says subscribers get perks, though they don't go into what those perks are (and again, no mention of sub tier). So, I'm a bit unclear on the details of exactly how the payments will work, and how much you get for any given price, and how "free" free is.
And, of course, there's still more Gen Con, and an Aug. 4 panel called the digital future of D&D, so maybe more details then? Probably I missed a few things, and a few articles but please add more if you notice something.
D&D's upcoming VTT, codenamed Project Sigil, will come with Baldur's Gate 3 minis—further cementing WoTC's plans to franchise the heck out of it | PC Gamer
D&D’s Project Sigil will allow fans to play as beloved Baldur’s Gate 3 characters - Dexerto
"BG3 Lives On" D&D Reveals New Way To Play As Your Favorite BG3 Characters For Free (screenrant.com)
You can use Baldur's Gate 3 characters in new D&D virtual tabletop to continue the party's story | GamesRadar+
Dungeons and Dragons Reveals Details About New Books, Virtual Tabletop, and More (gamerant.com)
Ah, I see that we now have signup info for the Sigil beta testing here on DDB now. Very cool! Looking forward to what is shown at GenCon.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/project-sigil?&icid_medium=organic&icid_source=editorial&icid_campaign=project_sigil&icid_content=article_1790
EDIT: Whoops, missed Xalthu had the link to the beta in the original post
Nerd Immersion talked a bit about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSFneeXuC5Y . Based on that, I think we can speculate:
My only fear is that they plan to go full microtransaction hell with it. Hasbro wants to milk D&D, and if it looks to be just a cash grab, I'll probably stick with Roll 20.
This is pretty much guaranteed. The D&D rules are hard, and any automated enforcement will clash with DMs who want to do something weird.
I'm pretty sure they don't want the plague of genitalia that would result. Tabletop simulator may not care, but they're not the shiny new feature for a major media brand that's played by kids. It's a PR nightmare in the making.
I expect something like hero forge at some point, likely not launch, with fancier clothes, weapons, etc., for sale.
Eh. As long as it's usable without shelling out more than a trivial amount of cash, I think they should be encouraged to go wild selling hats for miniatures. It's a way to keep the money people happy while not messing with the actual game. But that's me.
I'm more concerned by:
I mean, if they want to MT figures and map illustrations and animations, so what? Plenty of people have played with generic tokens on basic grid paper since D&D started, and even on Roll20 some groups will have an equivalent experience. Granted, my take is they can't put up paywalls too soon since they're the latecomers to the VTT market and so need to entice people to get personally invested before they start making payments. So I figure they'll make a decent toy chest free or at least only behind one of the basic subscriptions, with further bells and whistles as MT's.
Hell yeah, a place free of microtransactions like roll20 is just what we need!
I can upload any art I want, and even draw my own and upload it. So yeah they have a marketplace, I'm not upset about buying books from DnDB, what I don't want is to have to pay for hundreds of tiny extras just to make the maps and monsters I want to run a D&D game.
They sell cosmetics too, was my point. Animations, tokens, maps, tiles etc. It's a double standard any way you slice it.
And if what you want is a VTT where you can use whatever art you want, Maps exists too.
It's not, if I can upload, create, and make my own they they can sell whatever for the lazy. But if you can't import, and can't create new, then no way in hell would I use it.
Roll20 has a vary active marketplace, 90% of what is sold is made by independent creators, so even when buying a microtransaction from R20 you are still directly supporting the content creator. The words used so far about the D&D VTT make it clear this is not what they are planning. And that is why I am not in the least bit interested. If you can not tell the difference of why Roll20 is fine, and what has been said so far with D&D VTT is not, than you have a difference in morality that I can not communicate with.
edit: It's not about the money, it's who gets the money, and are you allowed to make your own.
Creating 3d models is not the same as 2d art. As for the amount you'd have to pay...I expect it depends on what sort of quality you expect. In the physical world, there are people who play on a Chessex battle map, scrawled on with wet erase markers, and using whatever random objects are in the game room as tokens -- dice, coins, cereal box toys, maybe someone has a box of a dozen minis; total investment in the tens of dollars. There are other people who build or buy terrain models, and collect large numbers of detailed, lovingly painted miniatures, representing thousands of dollars. I would expect the free version of the D&D VTT to be somewhere between those extremes -- your library of free minis isn't super large, but it's adequate as long as you aren't picky about them being a perfect match for the monster.
True, but I want the option to make my own, as I'm someone experienced in this, and well I know a lot of people who do 3d modeling. And if we can import our own, then making the files will be no big deal. If their "market" allows 3rd party creators, and importing of premade 3d models from say Heroforge, once again no big. If WotC is the only source of the 3d assists and they want to nickel and dime them all, this isn't even an option worth looking at. Foundry, Roll20, talespire and others all have outstanding 3rd party creators making stuff, and they allow you to make your own. Talesspire which is a 3D VTT allows importing of 3D models to include the file type used by Heroforge.
So yeah, making art is a skill, and sure not everyone has it, but in the world of D&D content creators, more of them work independently than those who work at WotC. I would also rather pay independent creators than a massive corporation.
While I also hate micro transactions, one person’s micro transaction is another person’s only buying what they need.
Lots of people here were (rightly) upset when they removed buying individual subclasses. Seems like that’s a kind of micro transaction.
Also, I feel like micro transactions are more of an issue in PvP video games where you can pay to win. So if my mini just has a normal sword instead of their sunblade. I’ll still know what it actually has. So maybe not as much of a problem if it’s cosmetic. And I don’t see how it could be much else.
What I think would be cool, as someone who doesn’t use digital, is if anything you buy an adventure digitally you automatically get the maps and minis to be able to run it.
While I'm sure something of the sort will be available because it's an obvious opportunity, it becomes a little tricky if you already have some of the things that come with the adventure.
The idea of the miniatures is the only part worth note to me. I'd be happier if they focused on more and higher-quality imports into existing VTTs... there's plenty of tabletops as it is and only so much money/time.
I don't trust microtransations because the philosophy is often to make the product less enjoyable if you aren't buying them (otherwise why would people buy them?) and it's more difficult to predict costs long-term. It does depend on how they're handled, but they're often bundled with other, crappier practices.
I guess WotC will bet for the adventage of collabs, appearing characters and creatures from other IPs, for example husks and mist monsters from Fortnite: Save the World
Here some suggestion:
Virtual tabletop with an AI as DM for players who bought Hero Quest but they can't find friends to play with.
A mode where the player starts with a warlord and a little group, and later she rules an army for epic battles style Warhammer: Total War.
Solo mode to playtest homemade ideas, for example new PC species or update of classes like the martial adepts and incarnum soulmelders.
Now I am thinking about the option to can produce your own machinima videos, or something like gamebooks (Endless Quest or Choose your own Adventure) working like those otome videogames (dating sims and that type of things), for example an interactive novel about a new student in Stryxhaven academy.
I really, really doubt there'll be any kind of scripting at all.
I mean those stories wouldn't be created by WotC team but by own players themself. WotC only would offer the creative tools, like Fortnite: Creative mode.
Of course maybe we would need some age rating, because rude language and that type of things. Ravenloft and Witchlight can't be in the same table, can they?
WotC has to offer something different, anything couldn't be imitated by rival companies.
Other option could be offering retrocompatible videogames, where you could use skins or cosmetic element for both. A title could be like Sims Medieval, but where you could use the "virtual miniatures". Then some players would buy it for the animations, and thanks these to produce their own machinima videos ( = animations using the software of videogames).
Attended the VTT talk. Be wary of the YouTube people presenting "information" on their "insider look" from a few days ago. I've seen lots of bad takes. I'm very much encouraged by what they said. The digital VTT will be a way to play, but not the only way to play. Will first be D&D focused and will implement the rules like other VTTs. Homebrew stuff will be allowed. Books aren't going away. Seems like a lot of what they are planning will really be based on how people are using the VTT coming out of Betas.
Looks like they are focused right now on making it so DMs can build adventures in it. I imagine a lot of this will be them giving us the same tools they use (dog fooding). Still unsure of the pricing (that question was asked but not clearly answered). My suggestion here is at least let the DM pay to cover the costs of players at some level. If my players have to pay, I won't use it. If the value is right (storage space, options, free content, etc) I'm willing to pay extra (See what Roll20 does for prem as an example), and can see cases where some players want to share costs, but if my players have to pay, I'll nope right out.