There are consequences to an evening of carousing and bar hopping, after all.
Only if you engage in what we call 'Amateur Night'. If you know what you're doing, there needn't be any consequences - you don't even have to get drunk. Conversely, if you're major league, you can consume surreal amounts of alcohol and be surprisingly coherent. I think we often fall into the trap of imagining binge-drinking teenagers, or rock stars or something. Who drink to drink. If you drink to gain information - and you know what you're doing - there's really no significant risk of STD's, or even a hangover.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, you're kind of enforcing a lot of specific actions on the players and characters in that scenario. Most people with some experience at having a night out know where their limit is and how to coast and otherwise stretch the revels out to stay within tolerances. Which is not to say people never push the limits for various reasons and suffer from severe lapses of judgement, but outright railroading characters into it to this degree is not a great vibe.
If one of my players tries these sorts of drawn out drinking sessions I normally call for a Wisdom save and/or a Constitution save based on the character and how they describe the outing. Basically Wisdom for "were you smart enough to not over do it?" versus Constitution for "no you weren't so now how hung over do you feel?" I run a lot of games for teenagers who even in the UK are too young to drink so most of them are only vaguely aware of the consequences of drinking 6 bottles of wine at a single sitting and watching their faces fall when they take a penalty they didn't realise was a thing is always entertaining
If one of my players tries these sorts of drawn out drinking sessions I normally call for a Wisdom save and/or a Constitution save based on the character and how they describe the outing. Basically Wisdom for "were you smart enough to not over do it?" versus Constitution for "no you weren't so now how hung over do you feel?" I run a lot of games for teenagers who even in the UK are too young to drink so most of them are only vaguely aware of the consequences of drinking 6 bottles of wine at a single sitting and watching their faces fall when they take a penalty they didn't realise was a thing is always entertaining
Just remind the youngsters that you advise that maturity does not come with age. Wealthy students who attend elite universities often act in excessively childish ways, especially with respect to excessive consumption of alcohol. The antics depicted in the movie 'Animal House' are mild compared to what actually occurs. Several faculty members at various Ivy League universities confirmed this.
There are consequences to an evening of carousing and bar hopping, after all.
Carousing and bar hopping to gain information effectively generally means drinking minimally while encouraging others to drink more, since the purpose of alcohol in that interaction is to impair the judgment of people you're interacting with, making them more likely to say things they wouldn't say if they were thinking clearly. As such, it only really has consequences if you do it wrong. It's a skill that doesn't cleanly map to any existing 5e skills (in 3e it's Gather Information, in 4e it's Streetwise; neither skill made it into 5e).
Of course, this is not relevant to going out carousing with the intent of getting drunk; at most that has a check for drinking more than you intended.
There are consequences to an evening of carousing and bar hopping, after all.
Carousing and bar hopping to gain information effectively generally means drinking minimally while encouraging others to drink more, since the purpose of alcohol in that interaction is to impair the judgment of people you're interacting with, making them more likely to say things they wouldn't say if they were thinking clearly. As such, it only really has consequences if you do it wrong. It's a skill that doesn't cleanly map to any existing 5e skills (in 3e it's Gather Information, in 4e it's Streetwise; neither skill made it into 5e).
Of course, this is not relevant to going out carousing with the intent of getting drunk; at most that has a check for drinking more than you intended.
Gathering Information is a combination of Insight(is the NPC telling the truth?), Perception(are there any physical signs that the NPC is not telling the truth?) and, perhaps, Deception(does the NPC tell a convincing lie?), with an Investigation check thrown in to catch anything else.
If one of my players tries these sorts of drawn out drinking sessions I normally call for a Wisdom save and/or a Constitution save based on the character and how they describe the outing. Basically Wisdom for "were you smart enough to not over do it?" versus Constitution for "no you weren't so now how hung over do you feel?" I run a lot of games for teenagers who even in the UK are too young to drink so most of them are only vaguely aware of the consequences of drinking 6 bottles of wine at a single sitting and watching their faces fall when they take a penalty they didn't realise was a thing is always entertaining
Just remind the youngsters that you advise that maturity does not come with age. Wealthy students who attend elite universities often act in excessively childish ways, especially with respect to excessive consumption of alcohol. The antics depicted in the movie 'Animal House' are mild compared to what actually occurs. Several faculty members at various Ivy League universities confirmed this.
And yet even at so-called party schools, the majority of students do not drink to extreme. Nor does it have much relevance to adventurers who would probably try to keep their wits about them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
There are consequences to an evening of carousing and bar hopping, after all.
Carousing and bar hopping to gain information effectively generally means drinking minimally while encouraging others to drink more, since the purpose of alcohol in that interaction is to impair the judgment of people you're interacting with, making them more likely to say things they wouldn't say if they were thinking clearly. As such, it only really has consequences if you do it wrong. It's a skill that doesn't cleanly map to any existing 5e skills (in 3e it's Gather Information, in 4e it's Streetwise; neither skill made it into 5e).
Of course, this is not relevant to going out carousing with the intent of getting drunk; at most that has a check for drinking more than you intended.
Gathering Information is a combination of Insight(is the NPC telling the truth?), Perception(are there any physical signs that the NPC is not telling the truth?) and, perhaps, Deception(does the NPC tell a convincing lie?), with an Investigation check thrown in to catch anything else.
Long sequences of checks are not a good idea for 5e unless the threshold for some degree of success is pretty low. The bounded stat system means for most characters the RNG has a lot of the power over results, so single point of failure chains are pretty likely to fall through.
Gathering Information is a combination of Insight(is the NPC telling the truth?), Perception(are there any physical signs that the NPC is not telling the truth?) and, perhaps, Deception(does the NPC tell a convincing lie?), with an Investigation check thrown in to catch anything else.
Gathering rumors is about getting people to start chatting. It's not about evaluating whether they're telling the truth. It's clearly a charisma check of some sort, not any of the things you mention (and no, you cannot use Perception to look for physical signs that an NPC is not telling the truth -- that's still part of Insight).
Gathering Information is a combination of Insight(is the NPC telling the truth?), Perception(are there any physical signs that the NPC is not telling the truth?) and, perhaps, Deception(does the NPC tell a convincing lie?), with an Investigation check thrown in to catch anything else.
Gathering rumors is about getting people to start chatting. It's not about evaluating whether they're telling the truth. It's clearly a charisma check of some sort, not any of the things you mention (and no, you cannot use Perception to look for physical signs that an NPC is not telling the truth -- that's still part of Insight).
It is not about evaluating whether some one is telling the truth!? If so, then why even permit PCs to gather tidbits of information at a tavern or at any public events, when the gossip and rumors heard may well be the product of inebriated lies.
It is not about evaluating whether some one is telling the truth!? If so, then why even permit PCs to gather tidbits of information at a tavern or at any public events, when the gossip and rumors heard may well be the product of inebriated lies.
If someone wants to know the local rumors, they should be able to find out the local rumors. Filtering out the useful rumors is a separate thing (and is usually still not insight, because someone repeating a rumor that they didn't start isn't lying even if the rumor is false).
It is not about evaluating whether some one is telling the truth!? If so, then why even permit PCs to gather tidbits of information at a tavern or at any public events, when the gossip and rumors heard may well be the product of inebriated lies.
If someone wants to know the local rumors, they should be able to find out the local rumors. Filtering out the useful rumors is a separate thing (and is usually still not insight, because someone repeating a rumor that they didn't start isn't lying even if the rumor is false).
Then how do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff, the truth from the untruth?
Then how do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff, the truth from the untruth?
The initial charisma check lets you guide discussions towards generally more interesting and useful topics. Determining which rumors are actually true isn't part of the initial roll as it's generally not something that can be determined without follow-up -- just give the PCs a list of rumors and they can decide which interest them and follow up as they see fit.
Only if you engage in what we call 'Amateur Night'. If you know what you're doing, there needn't be any consequences - you don't even have to get drunk. Conversely, if you're major league, you can consume surreal amounts of alcohol and be surprisingly coherent. I think we often fall into the trap of imagining binge-drinking teenagers, or rock stars or something. Who drink to drink. If you drink to gain information - and you know what you're doing - there's really no significant risk of STD's, or even a hangover.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, you're kind of enforcing a lot of specific actions on the players and characters in that scenario. Most people with some experience at having a night out know where their limit is and how to coast and otherwise stretch the revels out to stay within tolerances. Which is not to say people never push the limits for various reasons and suffer from severe lapses of judgement, but outright railroading characters into it to this degree is not a great vibe.
If one of my players tries these sorts of drawn out drinking sessions I normally call for a Wisdom save and/or a Constitution save based on the character and how they describe the outing. Basically Wisdom for "were you smart enough to not over do it?" versus Constitution for "no you weren't so now how hung over do you feel?" I run a lot of games for teenagers who even in the UK are too young to drink so most of them are only vaguely aware of the consequences of drinking 6 bottles of wine at a single sitting and watching their faces fall when they take a penalty they didn't realise was a thing is always entertaining
I’ll point out xanathar’s has rules for carousing. Complete with random tables. They are optional, but they’re there.
Just remind the youngsters that you advise that maturity does not come with age. Wealthy students who attend elite universities often act in excessively childish ways, especially with respect to excessive consumption of alcohol. The antics depicted in the movie 'Animal House' are mild compared to what actually occurs. Several faculty members at various Ivy League universities confirmed this.
Carousing and bar hopping to gain information effectively generally means drinking minimally while encouraging others to drink more, since the purpose of alcohol in that interaction is to impair the judgment of people you're interacting with, making them more likely to say things they wouldn't say if they were thinking clearly. As such, it only really has consequences if you do it wrong. It's a skill that doesn't cleanly map to any existing 5e skills (in 3e it's Gather Information, in 4e it's Streetwise; neither skill made it into 5e).
Of course, this is not relevant to going out carousing with the intent of getting drunk; at most that has a check for drinking more than you intended.
Gathering Information is a combination of Insight(is the NPC telling the truth?), Perception(are there any physical signs that the NPC is not telling the truth?) and, perhaps, Deception(does the NPC tell a convincing lie?), with an Investigation check thrown in to catch anything else.
And yet even at so-called party schools, the majority of students do not drink to extreme. Nor does it have much relevance to adventurers who would probably try to keep their wits about them.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Long sequences of checks are not a good idea for 5e unless the threshold for some degree of success is pretty low. The bounded stat system means for most characters the RNG has a lot of the power over results, so single point of failure chains are pretty likely to fall through.
Gathering rumors is about getting people to start chatting. It's not about evaluating whether they're telling the truth. It's clearly a charisma check of some sort, not any of the things you mention (and no, you cannot use Perception to look for physical signs that an NPC is not telling the truth -- that's still part of Insight).
It is not about evaluating whether some one is telling the truth!? If so, then why even permit PCs to gather tidbits of information at a tavern or at any public events, when the gossip and rumors heard may well be the product of inebriated lies.
If someone wants to know the local rumors, they should be able to find out the local rumors. Filtering out the useful rumors is a separate thing (and is usually still not insight, because someone repeating a rumor that they didn't start isn't lying even if the rumor is false).
Then how do you propose to separate the wheat from the chaff, the truth from the untruth?
The initial charisma check lets you guide discussions towards generally more interesting and useful topics. Determining which rumors are actually true isn't part of the initial roll as it's generally not something that can be determined without follow-up -- just give the PCs a list of rumors and they can decide which interest them and follow up as they see fit.
That and most rumors have a grain of truth at their core.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
That might be a bit stronger than I'd say. Most rumors are based on something, but they can be radically misinterpreted.
Like the mountain that was really a mole hill?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Dropping in a crimson-colored fish or two isn't necessarily a problem, but that really depends on how your group plays.
Given the amount of rumors on the internet that are complete and total nonsense, I find that claim dubious.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Sure, but a rumor can be false without being irrelevant.