Partially correct - if you cast a leveled spell on your turn, you cannot use your reaction on that same turn to cast counterspell. You can cast counterspell as normal with your reaction during that round as long as it is not on your turn.
What you can't do is cast magic missile on your turn, have the BBEG counterspell your magic missile, then burn your reaction to cast counterspell on his counter spell.
What you can do is cast magic missile, and then on the BBEG's turn when he casts fireball on you, you can counterspell the fireball, and he cannot counter-counter you.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It would probably help cut down the [Tooltip Not Found]-chain problem. Although it sounds like it would hurt single-enemy boss fights more than players.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It would probably help cut down the [Tooltip Not Found]-chain problem. Although it sounds like it would hurt single-enemy boss fights more than players.
Monsters don't necessarily play by the same rules as players, so can potentially still counter counters
It would probably help cut down the [Tooltip Not Found]-chain problem. Although it sounds like it would hurt single-enemy boss fights more than players.
Aren’t they moving to lots of enemies having powers instead of spells?
It would probably help cut down the [Tooltip Not Found]-chain problem. Although it sounds like it would hurt single-enemy boss fights more than players.
Aren’t they moving to lots of enemies having powers instead of spells?
They were as of Multiverse. Not sure if that is still the direction of not. Going to be interesting when the monster manual comes out
my assumption was if i cast alevelled spell as action or bonus action then i couldnt cast counterspell at all that round (ie not on anyones turn). how in your opinion does this view change between 2014 and 2024 rules?
i totally want to be able to say cast a cantrip ba healing word and later in that round on someone eles turn cast counterspell reaction
It says turn in the book, not round, so you can cast a levelled spell on your turn, then cast Counterspell on someone else's turn.
Previously, it was only if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, then you couldn't cast a levelled spell as an Action or, during your turn, as a Reaction.
The main change is this - previously, you could cast a spell, say Fireball, then someone could Counterspell it, then you could Counterspell their Counterspell. You can no longer do that - you can only cast your spell, and if it gets Counterspelled, then you will have to rely on someone else's Counterspell to push it through. Other things are like Paladins not being able to Smite twice in a turn and other things.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
if i cast magic missile then that roundi cant react and counterspell is that how i read it now?
odd comment (btw turn not round), this was true of 2014 as well. On your turn you can only cast 1 leveled spell. There were ways to bypass this in 2014 which have been "patched out" but that concept hasn't changed.
But when you say "that's it", "I finished my turn" or other comment to allow the table to know you are done. (which everyone should do, but often times I notice people don't do) then it is no longer your turn, and you can use your reaction to now cast Counter Spell.
To be honest, the only way you could use counter spell on your turn is if someone used a reaction to cast a spell, ie counterspell. Which gets kind of weird mechanically.
But there are some important changes to Counter Spell now. Specifically it now has a saving throw in it, based on Con the best save most NPC casters will usually have. Making this spell kind of worthless after the mid levels of play. As a DM I'm super happy about this because the 2014 counter spell was OP, and it needed a nerf.
[...] But there are some important changes to Counter Spell now. Specifically it now has a saving throw in it, based on Con the best save most NPC casters will usually have. Making this spell kind of worthless after the mid levels of play. As a DM I'm super happy about this because the 2014 counter spell was OP, and it needed a nerf.
For me, there's also a nice change in the spell that I really like.
With the 2014 Counterspell, you had to somehow guess whether to upcast it or not. Or as a DM rule, when the PCs would know what spell an NPC is casting to make their decision.
Also the other way around for fair play: when an NPC would know the spell being cast by a PC.
XGtE contains a specific answer to this question, but you need to use your reaction to identify the spell, so it isn't very useful if you want to cast the 2014 Counterspell in the same turn.
[...] But there are some important changes to Counter Spell now. Specifically it now has a saving throw in it, based on Con the best save most NPC casters will usually have. Making this spell kind of worthless after the mid levels of play. As a DM I'm super happy about this because the 2014 counter spell was OP, and it needed a nerf.
For me, there's also a nice change in the spell that I really like.
With the 2014 Counterspell, you had to somehow guess whether to upcast it or not. Or as a DM rule, when the PCs would know what spell an NPC is casting to make their decision.
Also the other way around for fair play: when an NPC would know the spell being cast by a PC.
XGtE contains a specific answer to this question, but you need to use your reaction to identify the spell, so it isn't very useful if you want to cast the 2014 Counterspell in the same turn.
So, now that gambling is gone for good.
But you do have to gamble with legendary resistances and that an enemy can counterspell your countrrspell. Keeping Vecna (ofmage creatures) from getting away is going to be nearly impossible now.
[...] But there are some important changes to Counter Spell now. Specifically it now has a saving throw in it, based on Con the best save most NPC casters will usually have. Making this spell kind of worthless after the mid levels of play. As a DM I'm super happy about this because the 2014 counter spell was OP, and it needed a nerf.
For me, there's also a nice change in the spell that I really like.
With the 2014 Counterspell, you had to somehow guess whether to upcast it or not. Or as a DM rule, when the PCs would know what spell an NPC is casting to make their decision.
Also the other way around for fair play: when an NPC would know the spell being cast by a PC.
XGtE contains a specific answer to this question, but you need to use your reaction to identify the spell, so it isn't very useful if you want to cast the 2014 Counterspell in the same turn.
So, now that gambling is gone for good.
But you do have to gamble with legendary resistances and that an enemy can counterspell your countrrspell. Keeping Vecna (ofmage creatures) from getting away is going to be nearly impossible now.
Agreed, but not impossible. Legendary Resistances usually have a limited number of uses. I'm not sure if those types of enemies would save them specifically and only for Counterspells.
There are plenty of powerful spells based on saving throws when your characters are prepared to face legendary creatures. So, in reality, the "problem" won't be only with Counterspell in those situations.
if i cast magic missile then that round i cant react and counterspell is that how i read it now?
How would you react on your turn, if you have just cast a spell? You can only react to something someone else did.
As for other parts of the thread regarding saving throws, I am not so sure all spell casting NPC's have great Constitution scores. I think it depends on what category you are referring to.
if i cast magic missile then that round i cant react and counterspell is that how i read it now?
How would you react on your turn, if you have just cast a spell? You can only react to something someone else did.
As for other parts of the thread regarding saving throws, I am not so sure all spell casting NPC's have great Constitution scores. I think it depends on what category you are referring to.
Easy to look up, just hit "subtype = wizard" sort by level.
The list will include almost everything officially that can be counter spelled. The low level humanoid wizards some will have bad constitutions, but once you get to CR10 17 and 19 for humanoid, and up to 30 with a few high level ones. Like really you're going to counter spell Vecna?
if i cast magic missile then that round i cant react and counterspell is that how i read it now?
Partially correct - if you cast a leveled spell on your turn, you cannot use your reaction on that same turn to cast counterspell. You can cast counterspell as normal with your reaction during that round as long as it is not on your turn.
^^ this.
What you can't do is cast magic missile on your turn, have the BBEG counterspell your magic missile, then burn your reaction to cast counterspell on his counter spell.
What you can do is cast magic missile, and then on the BBEG's turn when he casts fireball on you, you can counterspell the fireball, and he cannot counter-counter you.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It would probably help cut down the [Tooltip Not Found]-chain problem. Although it sounds like it would hurt single-enemy boss fights more than players.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Monsters don't necessarily play by the same rules as players, so can potentially still counter counters
Aren’t they moving to lots of enemies having powers instead of spells?
They were as of Multiverse. Not sure if that is still the direction of not. Going to be interesting when the monster manual comes out
my assumption was if i cast alevelled spell as action or bonus action then i couldnt cast counterspell at all that round (ie not on anyones turn). how in your opinion does this view change between 2014 and 2024 rules?
i totally want to be able to say cast a cantrip ba healing word and later in that round on someone eles turn cast counterspell reaction
It says turn in the book, not round, so you can cast a levelled spell on your turn, then cast Counterspell on someone else's turn.
Previously, it was only if you cast a spell as a Bonus Action, then you couldn't cast a levelled spell as an Action or, during your turn, as a Reaction.
The main change is this - previously, you could cast a spell, say Fireball, then someone could Counterspell it, then you could Counterspell their Counterspell. You can no longer do that - you can only cast your spell, and if it gets Counterspelled, then you will have to rely on someone else's Counterspell to push it through. Other things are like Paladins not being able to Smite twice in a turn and other things.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
odd comment (btw turn not round), this was true of 2014 as well. On your turn you can only cast 1 leveled spell. There were ways to bypass this in 2014 which have been "patched out" but that concept hasn't changed.
But when you say "that's it", "I finished my turn" or other comment to allow the table to know you are done. (which everyone should do, but often times I notice people don't do) then it is no longer your turn, and you can use your reaction to now cast Counter Spell.
To be honest, the only way you could use counter spell on your turn is if someone used a reaction to cast a spell, ie counterspell. Which gets kind of weird mechanically.
But there are some important changes to Counter Spell now. Specifically it now has a saving throw in it, based on Con the best save most NPC casters will usually have. Making this spell kind of worthless after the mid levels of play. As a DM I'm super happy about this because the 2014 counter spell was OP, and it needed a nerf.
For me, there's also a nice change in the spell that I really like.
With the 2014 Counterspell, you had to somehow guess whether to upcast it or not. Or as a DM rule, when the PCs would know what spell an NPC is casting to make their decision.
Also the other way around for fair play: when an NPC would know the spell being cast by a PC.
XGtE contains a specific answer to this question, but you need to use your reaction to identify the spell, so it isn't very useful if you want to cast the 2014 Counterspell in the same turn.
So, now that gambling is gone for good.
But you do have to gamble with legendary resistances and that an enemy can counterspell your countrrspell. Keeping Vecna (ofmage creatures) from getting away is going to be nearly impossible now.
Agreed, but not impossible. Legendary Resistances usually have a limited number of uses. I'm not sure if those types of enemies would save them specifically and only for Counterspells.
There are plenty of powerful spells based on saving throws when your characters are prepared to face legendary creatures. So, in reality, the "problem" won't be only with Counterspell in those situations.
How would you react on your turn, if you have just cast a spell? You can only react to something someone else did.
As for other parts of the thread regarding saving throws, I am not so sure all spell casting NPC's have great Constitution scores. I think it depends on what category you are referring to.
Easy to look up, just hit "subtype = wizard" sort by level.
The list will include almost everything officially that can be counter spelled. The low level humanoid wizards some will have bad constitutions, but once you get to CR10 17 and 19 for humanoid, and up to 30 with a few high level ones. Like really you're going to counter spell Vecna?