I hate that the spell continues to allow a character who can cast this spell and has downtime can basically do an infinite money cheat without any repercussions RAW.
Yes, I know, as a DM I can disallow it to be used this way but it's annoying that the spell is unusable as written unless the character exists in a world where gold is useless or they aren't allowed sufficient downtime. It's not only bad from the PC perspective but even NPCs. The kingdom with a high level wizard has no need to collect taxes from it's citizenry since they can just literally print money.
Yeah, so Wish doesn't exist in my world. And as the DM I'm allowed to say what spells exist. Period.
The DM is the final say in all matters. Never forget that.
But, you know, don't abuse that power. D&D is just a game and should be enjoyed by everyone at the table. Listen to your players and be open to their desires and play styles, always. But, like, some spells just shouldn't exist.
A Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal can cast they say! Yes theorically powerful wizards can create one object of up to 25,000 GP in value on a daily basis.
Such high level player character should have more fun things to do with their highest spell slot while adventuring though.
The stress of casting Wish to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you.
...
Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast Wish ever again if you suffer this stress.
So on average they can do this a grand total of three times before they hit the "lose the spell forever" clause. I doubt an Archmage can't find a better way to make 75,000 gp, unless your world's economy is incredibly poor.
The spell never let you print money indefinitely, and that hasn't changed.
I'm pretty sure a player who's intent on doing so can break your economy just fine without wish if they have 9th-level spells. Probably more efficiently than creating a 25,000gp item. (Also, D&D worlds pretty much invariably don't have a functional economy to begin with.)
By 17th+ level, that amount of cash is probably uninteresting to the character. They have better things to do with their time, and if they aren't already rich, it's because they couldn't be bothered. But sometimes they need a ship or something right now and the GM needs guidance as to whether they can get it out of a wish.
Note, that stress only lasts until you complete a long rest.
Edit: never mind, I misread the rule. Just suffering the stress imposes the 33% chance.
Which means you are rarely ever going to get more than 5 uses out if wish. And most adventurers are going to need it for other things.
Also I think very very very very few wizards even know the spell. Like there is probably less than a handful who are even capable of casting it. And those that can see likely saving it for emergencies. Powerful wizards tend to have powerful enemies.
The penalties for using Wish in non-standard ways is pretty severe, so from that regard I think players will think twice before using it in that manner.
Also, I don't recommend allowing Wish to be one of the spells that a character can just simply select for their spellbook when they hit the appropriate level. In my opinion, obtaining it should involve a pretty serious quest.
And there is also the option of simply saying Wish doesn't exist in your campaign world at all.
I'd be tempted by just giving it a 5,000 gp component regardless of what it's used for. There's no reason it has to be a cost-free spell -- in AD&D it produced unnatural aging (5 years for a human, more for longer lived races), in 3e it cost 5,000 xp (about 30% of a level for someone able to cast the spell)
I would probably make my players give me the exact wording for each wish they cast. It's pretty easy to exploit a weakness in their wording if you feel they are exploiting or taking advantage of the spell. Also 'minting money' with wish would potentially destabilize the local economy at the very least, you could have them suffer any number of consequences from that.
Honestly, if you are having an issue with players abusing spells/rules/feats, etc in ways that break your game, it's time to have an out of game talk with your players.
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Much that once was is lost. Objects in Mirror Image are closer than they appear. All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players, performers and portrayers...
I hate that the spell continues to allow a character who can cast this spell and has downtime can basically do an infinite money cheat without any repercussions RAW.
Yes, I know, as a DM I can disallow it to be used this way but it's annoying that the spell is unusable as written unless the character exists in a world where gold is useless or they aren't allowed sufficient downtime. It's not only bad from the PC perspective but even NPCs. The kingdom with a high level wizard has no need to collect taxes from it's citizenry since they can just literally print money.
There are many things broken in D&D. There always has been, stretching back 50 years. You know the answer to this, as you have stated it. If something is broken, or for whatever reason does not fit in what you are doing as a DM, you ban it. That is your right as a DM, and always has been.
I hate that the spell continues to allow a character who can cast this spell and has downtime can basically do an infinite money cheat without any repercussions RAW.
Yes, I know, as a DM I can disallow it to be used this way but it's annoying that the spell is unusable as written unless the character exists in a world where gold is useless or they aren't allowed sufficient downtime. It's not only bad from the PC perspective but even NPCs. The kingdom with a high level wizard has no need to collect taxes from it's citizenry since they can just literally print money.
The infinite Wish Money cheat requires two spells, both have changed in 2024. This can not be done any more.
1st step was Simulacrum, which use to be able to be spawned indefinably as the Simulacrum could cast all spells you had prepared.
New 2024 Simulacrum I marked in red the change that prevents this.
Components: V, S, M (powdered ruby worth 1,500+ GP, which the spell consumes)
Duration: Until dispelled
You create a simulacrum of one Beast or Humanoid that is within 10 feet of you for the entire casting of the spell. You finish the casting by touching both the creature and a pile of ice or snow that is the same size as that creature, and the pile turns into the simulacrum, which is a creature. It uses the game statistics of the original creature at the time of casting, except it is a Construct, its Hit Point maximum is half as much, and it can’t cast this spell.
The simulacrum is Friendly to you and creatures you designate. It obeys your commands and acts on your turn in combat. The simulacrum can’t gain levels, and it can’t take Short or Long Rests.
If the simulacrum takes damage, the only way to restore its Hit Points is to repair it as you take a Long Rest, during which you expend components worth 100 GP per Hit Point restored. The simulacrum must stay within 5 feet of you for the repair.
The simulacrum lasts until it drops to 0 Hit Points, at which point it reverts to snow and melts away. If you cast this spell again, any simulacrum you created with this spell is instantly destroyed.
Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality itself.
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
Alternatively, you can create one of the following effects of your choice:
Object Creation. You create one object of up to 25,000 GP in value that isn’t a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space that you can see on the ground.
Instant Health. You allow yourself and up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all Hit Points, and you end all effects on them listed in the Greater Restoration spell.
Resistance. You grant up to ten creatures that you can see Resistance to one damage type that you choose. This Resistance is permanent.
Spell Immunity. You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours.
Sudden Learning. You replace one of your feats with another feat for which you are eligible. You lose all the benefits of the old feat and gain the benefits of the new one. You can’t replace a feat that is a prerequisite for any of your other feats or features.
Roll Redo. You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any die roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a Wish spell could undo an ally’s failed saving throw or a foe’s Critical Hit. You can force the reroll to be made with Advantage or Disadvantage, and you choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.
Reshape Reality. You may wish for something not included in any of the other effects. To do so, state your wish to the DM as precisely as possible. The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might be achieved only in part, or you might suffer an unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a Legendary magic item or an Artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item’s current owner. If your wish is granted and its effects have consequences for a whole community, region, or world, you are likely to attract powerful foes. If your wish would affect a god, the god’s divine servants might instantly intervene to prevent it or to encourage you to craft the wish in a particular way. If your wish would undo the multiverse itself, threaten the City of Sigil, or affect the Lady of Pain in any way, you see an image of her in your mind for a moment; she shakes her head, and your wish fails.
The stress of casting Wish to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a Long Rest, you take 1d10 Necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can’t be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength score becomes 3 for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast Wish ever again if you suffer this stress.
First the money is no longer just the money... It's an item of such value, and if you as a DM run this right, vendors must 1 have a need, 2 must have the ability to buy it, and 3 will resell at the book value, so will only offer up to 50% of the suggested value, I usually start at 25% of the book value, and if they want to haggle, contested rolls against a merchant with expertise and advantage. Also most of my merchants have charm protection rings.
So the other way is to play Gennie with the DM who loves to play corrupt a wish. PC - "I wish for 100 million gold." Evil DM- "Poof you are now a pile of 100 million gold"
Actually, I'm tempted to remove Wish as a spell entirely. It's available as a magic item (if you want to create a magic item that can do a wish, you can... at normal magic item creation rules) and as an epic boon (which gives you a wish... once).
So the other way is to play Gennie with the DM who loves to play corrupt a wish. PC - "I wish for 100 million gold." Evil DM- "Poof you are now a pile of 100 million gold"
No no no.
An open safe appears before you. Inside is millions of gold..millions...
On the outside of the safe, there is a plaque "Property of Asmodeus"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
The stress of casting Wish to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you.
...
Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast Wish ever again if you suffer this stress.
So on average they can do this a grand total of three times before they hit the "lose the spell forever" clause. I doubt an Archmage can't find a better way to make 75,000 gp, unless your world's economy is incredibly poor.
The spell never let you print money indefinitely, and that hasn't changed.
I see, I hadn't noticed that the text at the end was tied to all of the effects instead of just the reshape reality text.
I feel much better about the spell now, thank you. Granted it allows you to cast lower-level spells without material components, meaning it requires some creativity on the part of the player to abuse it rather than the abuse being built right into the the spell description.
I hate that the spell continues to allow a character who can cast this spell and has downtime can basically do an infinite money cheat without any repercussions RAW.
Yes, I know, as a DM I can disallow it to be used this way but it's annoying that the spell is unusable as written unless the character exists in a world where gold is useless or they aren't allowed sufficient downtime. It's not only bad from the PC perspective but even NPCs. The kingdom with a high level wizard has no need to collect taxes from it's citizenry since they can just literally print money.
There are many things broken in D&D. There always has been, stretching back 50 years. You know the answer to this, as you have stated it. If something is broken, or for whatever reason does not fit in what you are doing as a DM, you ban it. That is your right as a DM, and always has been.
This is absolutely true. I don't mind when players discover ways to combine class abilities and/or spell effects that produce something that is clearly far more powerful than what it should be. I can then make a rule adjustment to depower the combination.
What frustrated me with this is that there was no apparent combination it was just "This spell lets you do X every day" which was game-breaking. I didn't see limitations on the effect nor had the player who pointed it out to me. In previous editions that I've run games in (2nd, 3.0 and 3.5) just casting wish was costly and if you wanted to just replicate a spell or produce one of several listed options there was no additional cost or risk associated with the spell. You could try for a more powerful effect but that carried additional risks that made that option unappealing except for extreme circumstances.
So, being used to that format I didn't read the spell as thoroughly as I should of. I mean, sure the spell limits you to a single object worth X amount of gold, but the obvious option is to simply wish for a single gemstone of that value. As for spending it, that too is pretty straightforward. You don't use those gems to buy arrows from your local shop keep. You use them to buy the things characters are buying at that level. Castles, siege weapons, Ships, etc. Items where the person doing the work wants 100s of thousands of gold to do the work. They aren't going to bat an eye if you say "ok that's fine do you mind if I pay you in gem stones?" In fact they will probably appreciate that you're not paying in actual coins because that would be annoying.
My player with the high-level wizard with access to the spell wish absolutely would of used wish to generate a 25,000gp gemstone every day, if they could do so with no consequences, as was our impression, If his character had the downtime to do it. This is because in my campaign there were still things to spend money on even at level 20 that characters wanted. But those things were understandably extraordinarily expensive. So, they weren't looking for a way to break the rules, money was still a motivating factor and oh look, this spell can just give me free money every day, awesome!
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I hate that the spell continues to allow a character who can cast this spell and has downtime can basically do an infinite money cheat without any repercussions RAW.
Yes, I know, as a DM I can disallow it to be used this way but it's annoying that the spell is unusable as written unless the character exists in a world where gold is useless or they aren't allowed sufficient downtime. It's not only bad from the PC perspective but even NPCs. The kingdom with a high level wizard has no need to collect taxes from it's citizenry since they can just literally print money.
What about the new version makes you feel it can print money?
Yeah, so Wish doesn't exist in my world. And as the DM I'm allowed to say what spells exist. Period.
The DM is the final say in all matters. Never forget that.
But, you know, don't abuse that power. D&D is just a game and should be enjoyed by everyone at the table. Listen to your players and be open to their desires and play styles, always. But, like, some spells just shouldn't exist.
A Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal can cast they say! Yes theorically powerful wizards can create one object of up to 25,000 GP in value on a daily basis.
Such high level player character should have more fun things to do with their highest spell slot while adventuring though.
As per the rules:
So on average they can do this a grand total of three times before they hit the "lose the spell forever" clause. I doubt an Archmage can't find a better way to make 75,000 gp, unless your world's economy is incredibly poor.
The spell never let you print money indefinitely, and that hasn't changed.
Note, that stress only lasts until you complete a long rest.
Edit: never mind, I misread the rule. Just suffering the stress imposes the 33% chance.
I'm pretty sure a player who's intent on doing so can break your economy just fine without wish if they have 9th-level spells. Probably more efficiently than creating a 25,000gp item. (Also, D&D worlds pretty much invariably don't have a functional economy to begin with.)
By 17th+ level, that amount of cash is probably uninteresting to the character. They have better things to do with their time, and if they aren't already rich, it's because they couldn't be bothered. But sometimes they need a ship or something right now and the GM needs guidance as to whether they can get it out of a wish.
By the time a character can cast 9th level spells, why do they even care about money?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Which means you are rarely ever going to get more than 5 uses out if wish. And most adventurers are going to need it for other things.
Also I think very very very very few wizards even know the spell. Like there is probably less than a handful who are even capable of casting it. And those that can see likely saving it for emergencies. Powerful wizards tend to have powerful enemies.
I just ignore some of the words there. If you want to ignore costly components or casting time, it's a major wish, not a minor wish.
The penalties for using Wish in non-standard ways is pretty severe, so from that regard I think players will think twice before using it in that manner.
Also, I don't recommend allowing Wish to be one of the spells that a character can just simply select for their spellbook when they hit the appropriate level. In my opinion, obtaining it should involve a pretty serious quest.
And there is also the option of simply saying Wish doesn't exist in your campaign world at all.
I'd be tempted by just giving it a 5,000 gp component regardless of what it's used for. There's no reason it has to be a cost-free spell -- in AD&D it produced unnatural aging (5 years for a human, more for longer lived races), in 3e it cost 5,000 xp (about 30% of a level for someone able to cast the spell)
I would probably make my players give me the exact wording for each wish they cast. It's pretty easy to exploit a weakness in their wording if you feel they are exploiting or taking advantage of the spell. Also 'minting money' with wish would potentially destabilize the local economy at the very least, you could have them suffer any number of consequences from that.
Honestly, if you are having an issue with players abusing spells/rules/feats, etc in ways that break your game, it's time to have an out of game talk with your players.
Much that once was is lost.
Objects in Mirror Image are closer than they appear.
All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players, performers and portrayers...
There are many things broken in D&D. There always has been, stretching back 50 years. You know the answer to this, as you have stated it. If something is broken, or for whatever reason does not fit in what you are doing as a DM, you ban it. That is your right as a DM, and always has been.
The infinite Wish Money cheat requires two spells, both have changed in 2024. This can not be done any more.
1st step was Simulacrum, which use to be able to be spawned indefinably as the Simulacrum could cast all spells you had prepared.
New 2024 Simulacrum I marked in red the change that prevents this.
Next Wish changes:
First the money is no longer just the money... It's an item of such value, and if you as a DM run this right, vendors must 1 have a need, 2 must have the ability to buy it, and 3 will resell at the book value, so will only offer up to 50% of the suggested value, I usually start at 25% of the book value, and if they want to haggle, contested rolls against a merchant with expertise and advantage. Also most of my merchants have charm protection rings.
So the other way is to play Gennie with the DM who loves to play corrupt a wish. PC - "I wish for 100 million gold." Evil DM- "Poof you are now a pile of 100 million gold"
Actually, I'm tempted to remove Wish as a spell entirely. It's available as a magic item (if you want to create a magic item that can do a wish, you can... at normal magic item creation rules) and as an epic boon (which gives you a wish... once).
No no no.
An open safe appears before you. Inside is millions of gold..millions...
On the outside of the safe, there is a plaque "Property of Asmodeus"
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Honestly though I as a player would find creating a bunch of money with the spell to be pretty boring. There are much better things to do with it.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I see, I hadn't noticed that the text at the end was tied to all of the effects instead of just the reshape reality text.
I feel much better about the spell now, thank you. Granted it allows you to cast lower-level spells without material components, meaning it requires some creativity on the part of the player to abuse it rather than the abuse being built right into the the spell description.
Thank you for pointing this out
This is absolutely true. I don't mind when players discover ways to combine class abilities and/or spell effects that produce something that is clearly far more powerful than what it should be. I can then make a rule adjustment to depower the combination.
What frustrated me with this is that there was no apparent combination it was just "This spell lets you do X every day" which was game-breaking. I didn't see limitations on the effect nor had the player who pointed it out to me. In previous editions that I've run games in (2nd, 3.0 and 3.5) just casting wish was costly and if you wanted to just replicate a spell or produce one of several listed options there was no additional cost or risk associated with the spell. You could try for a more powerful effect but that carried additional risks that made that option unappealing except for extreme circumstances.
So, being used to that format I didn't read the spell as thoroughly as I should of. I mean, sure the spell limits you to a single object worth X amount of gold, but the obvious option is to simply wish for a single gemstone of that value. As for spending it, that too is pretty straightforward. You don't use those gems to buy arrows from your local shop keep. You use them to buy the things characters are buying at that level. Castles, siege weapons, Ships, etc. Items where the person doing the work wants 100s of thousands of gold to do the work. They aren't going to bat an eye if you say "ok that's fine do you mind if I pay you in gem stones?" In fact they will probably appreciate that you're not paying in actual coins because that would be annoying.
My player with the high-level wizard with access to the spell wish absolutely would of used wish to generate a 25,000gp gemstone every day, if they could do so with no consequences, as was our impression, If his character had the downtime to do it. This is because in my campaign there were still things to spend money on even at level 20 that characters wanted. But those things were understandably extraordinarily expensive. So, they weren't looking for a way to break the rules, money was still a motivating factor and oh look, this spell can just give me free money every day, awesome!