I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters and lastly I hate how there are no Goblyns.
You can blame Vecna, and there are some good reasons. This wanted revenge against the Dark Powers, and the escape was only a step. After the reboot of D&D multiverse during 2nd-3rd transition and later the 4th Ed the cosmology was altered radically.
Rex Azalin was manipulated by Vecna to cause a lot of troubles, and the demiplane of the dread was almost destroyed, but to fix the damages some changes were necessary. Some characters had to be replaced with variants.
There is a "secret layer" in the demiplane, the original "core" but without the dark lords but some couple, and most of sentient population. Now it is working like a cosmic firewall in the space-time continium because there are intruders from Innistrard and Duskmourn, and also like a fake exit door to trick who try escape.
Wolfweres shouldn't be too hard to be updated to 5e, are they? And now the dark lords lack stats, because the intention is these could face PC in every level.
The awesome thing about Dungeon & Dragons is that Wizards of the Coast doesn't dictate anything. They control absolutely nothing. At. All.
So if I want Barovia to exist in Candyland, then it does. If I want it to exist within Middle Earth, suddenly it's in Middle Earth. Your table is yours. And no one can tell you any different.
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
The awesome thing about Dungeon & Dragons is that Wizards of the Coast doesn't dictate anything. They control absolutely nothing. At. All.
So if I want Barovia to exist in Candyland, then it does. If I want it to exist within Middle Earth, suddenly it's in Middle Earth. Your table is yours. And no one can tell you any different.
No game dictates anything you do. Are the supposed to come to your house and tell you not to break some rules? lol. The expectation is that you play the game according to the rules. If you can't then you need to use the word "Homebrew" to indicate how far you digress from the basic ruleset.
The awesome thing about Dungeon & Dragons is that Wizards of the Coast doesn't dictate anything. They control absolutely nothing. At. All.
So if I want Barovia to exist in Candyland, then it does. If I want it to exist within Middle Earth, suddenly it's in Middle Earth. Your table is yours. And no one can tell you any different.
The expectation is that you play the game according to the rules.
Not Dungeons & Dragons. You don't have to follow the rules in the book, if they don't suit your table's play style.
It definitely turned me off as well. They basically erased and rebooted the entire setting. Like what they did to the Forgotten Realms in 4e… but worse since all the old stories also never happened.
It was my favourite setting and it felt like it was updated by people who weren’t fans and just didn’t know anything and were given free license to reboot. And it didn’t even get the tone right!
And while I can always run Ravenloft adventures using the old lore, it hurts to know something I love is basically gone and newcomers won’t be introduced to that world.
Which time? Ravenloft lore has changed in almost every book published. :-)
The first 3 editions aren't altered nearly as much as the 4th and 5th editions, most of the main and supporting characters have been changed almost completely and most of the Darklords don't even have stats, you're only given suggestions to turn them into DMPCs.
The awesome thing about Dungeon & Dragons is that Wizards of the Coast doesn't dictate anything. They control absolutely nothing. At. All.
So if I want Barovia to exist in Candyland, then it does. If I want it to exist within Middle Earth, suddenly it's in Middle Earth. Your table is yours. And no one can tell you any different.
No game dictates anything you do. Are the supposed to come to your house and tell you not to break some rules? lol. The expectation is that you play the game according to the rules. If you can't then you need to use the word "Homebrew" to indicate how far you digress from the basic ruleset.
That has never been the expectation. In every edition to my knowledge it has encouraged rulings over rules. The whole point of the DM—at least up unto recently when we have seen a shift in the orientation of how the IP is handled with just about every book marketed to players and not DMs—is to arbitrate decisions that might or might not be informed by the rules. Many players in the past did not even own a copy of the rules. One category of problem player over the years has defined and described those who are so deeply mired in the rules they question the decisions of the DM as if they were running the game. Nowadays with players more obsessed with "builds" and "options" than they are exploring the world put before them and telling a story this type of player is everywhere.
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
The AD&D original never stated where or what Barovia was prior to Strahd's fall. All things however have a beginning, so one can make a guess, with Barovia there were 2 main theories in the 90s, 1st it was a mirror/copy of a real place made when Strahd fell, and the other was it was literally ripped from an unknown world in full. By 5th D&D writers picked the 2nd most popular theory and made it ripped from Toril. No big deal. Acting like there was a definitive lore origin in second means you didn't read the old material. And if you base your belief on DM suggested dialogue then you will miss that every piece of Suggested NPC dialogue is contradicted elsewhere. That was the beauty of Ravenloft in the 90s everything was a lie, everyone is evil, and you just want to escape this trap.
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
The AD&D original never stated where or what Barovia was prior to Strahd's fall. All things however have a beginning, so one can make a guess, with Barovia there were 2 main theories in the 90s, 1st it was a mirror/copy of a real place made when Strahd fell, and the other was it was literally ripped from an unknown world in full. By 5th D&D writers picked the 2nd most popular theory and made it ripped from Toril. No big deal. Acting like there was a definitive lore origin in second means you didn't read the old material. And if you base your belief on DM suggested dialogue then you will miss that every piece of Suggested NPC dialogue is contradicted elsewhere. That was the beauty of Ravenloft in the 90s everything was a lie, everyone is evil, and you just want to escape this trap.
It makes little sense for Barovia's origins to be in Toril provided Toril's medievalism. Barovia looks and feels like 19th-century Eastern Europe and would be anachronistic in the Realms.
It makes little sense for Barovia's origins to be in Toril provided Toril's medievalism. Barovia looks and feels like 19th-century Eastern Europe and would be anachronistic in the Realms.
I think everyone has this wrong idea about the tech level of Toril as a planet. The Sword Coast is like the wild west, and has a 1600s aesthetic, but that is one tiny region and a cultural choice of the Region.
Various parts of Toril can be fairly modern, ie early 1900s, remember the Netherese Empire was a Space Age Magictech civilization before Karsus crashed their civilization to the ground. When we last saw Kara-Tur they were almost using Steam Power, I wonder if WotC will ever touch the setting again.
Since Barovia is now from Toril, they have still been vague as to where exactly, but not when. There are a few regions that work, and none are on the sword coast. Which means the fashion would be influenced by which ever region they were from.
The awesome thing about Dungeon & Dragons is that Wizards of the Coast doesn't dictate anything. They control absolutely nothing. At. All.
So if I want Barovia to exist in Candyland, then it does. If I want it to exist within Middle Earth, suddenly it's in Middle Earth. Your table is yours. And no one can tell you any different.
The expectation is that you play the game according to the rules.
Not Dungeons & Dragons. You don't have to follow the rules in the book, if they don't suit your table's play style.
It says so right in the Player's Handbook.
Snipping what someone says out of context is not cool.
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
The AD&D original never stated where or what Barovia was prior to Strahd's fall. All things however have a beginning, so one can make a guess, with Barovia there were 2 main theories in the 90s, 1st it was a mirror/copy of a real place made when Strahd fell, and the other was it was literally ripped from an unknown world in full. By 5th D&D writers picked the 2nd most popular theory and made it ripped from Toril. No big deal. Acting like there was a definitive lore origin in second means you didn't read the old material. And if you base your belief on DM suggested dialogue then you will miss that every piece of Suggested NPC dialogue is contradicted elsewhere. That was the beauty of Ravenloft in the 90s everything was a lie, everyone is evil, and you just want to escape this trap.
It makes little sense for Barovia's origins to be in Toril provided Toril's medievalism. Barovia looks and feels like 19th-century Eastern Europe and would be anachronistic in the Realms.
Are you suggesting a setting in a piece of fiction made up from wholecloth has an anachronistic mishmash of aesthetics? I am shocked! Shocked I tell you! Driver, take my hansom cab to the agora, I must tell my fellow sages about this grave error!
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
The AD&D original never stated where or what Barovia was prior to Strahd's fall. All things however have a beginning, so one can make a guess, with Barovia there were 2 main theories in the 90s, 1st it was a mirror/copy of a real place made when Strahd fell, and the other was it was literally ripped from an unknown world in full. By 5th D&D writers picked the 2nd most popular theory and made it ripped from Toril. No big deal. Acting like there was a definitive lore origin in second means you didn't read the old material. And if you base your belief on DM suggested dialogue then you will miss that every piece of Suggested NPC dialogue is contradicted elsewhere. That was the beauty of Ravenloft in the 90s everything was a lie, everyone is evil, and you just want to escape this trap.
Here is a quote from the book, Ravenloft Realm of Terror:
'Many centuries past, in a world now forgotten, the warrior-noble Strahd von Zarovich settled in a land called Barovia, in a castle known as Ravenloft. That castle, and the horrid events which took place there, spawned an entire realm of terror. Castle Ravenloft now lies lost within the Ethereal Plane, in the Demiplane of Dread. The fortress sits in the center of the misty realm like a beating heart, pumping evil and sorrow to even the most distant fingers of the land. The realm takes its name from Strahd's castle; "Ravenloft" has become synonymous with the entire plane. "Castle Ravenloft" refers to the fortress itself'
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
The AD&D original never stated where or what Barovia was prior to Strahd's fall. All things however have a beginning, so one can make a guess, with Barovia there were 2 main theories in the 90s, 1st it was a mirror/copy of a real place made when Strahd fell, and the other was it was literally ripped from an unknown world in full. By 5th D&D writers picked the 2nd most popular theory and made it ripped from Toril. No big deal. Acting like there was a definitive lore origin in second means you didn't read the old material. And if you base your belief on DM suggested dialogue then you will miss that every piece of Suggested NPC dialogue is contradicted elsewhere. That was the beauty of Ravenloft in the 90s everything was a lie, everyone is evil, and you just want to escape this trap.
Here is a quote from the book, Ravenloft Realm of Terror:
'Many centuries past, in a world now forgotten, the warrior-noble Strahd von Zarovich settled in a land called Barovia, in a castle known as Ravenloft. That castle, and the horrid events which took place there, spawned an entire realm of terror. Castle Ravenloft now lies lost within the Ethereal Plane, in the Demiplane of Dread. The fortress sits in the center of the misty realm like a beating heart, pumping evil and sorrow to even the most distant fingers of the land. The realm takes its name from Strahd's castle; "Ravenloft" has become synonymous with the entire plane. "Castle Ravenloft" refers to the fortress itself'
And, I own that book as well, (purchased new).
That was why I said, back in AD&D there was an origin but it was never made clear. When you read that passage it can be interpreted multiple ways. WotC choose option B. No big deal.
I miss when Ravenloft was in the Ethereal Plane and not the Shadowfell. I miss when Barovia's material plane of origin was left a mystery as it came from a world long forgotten. I don't like how they changed Luthor Harkon into a loup garou instead of a wolf-were, because Wolf-weres need to come back. I also don't like how they genderswapped a bunch of characters and lastly I hate how there are no Goblyns.
Please explain what you are talking about and when/where did you find these changes?
You can blame Vecna, and there are some good reasons. This wanted revenge against the Dark Powers, and the escape was only a step. After the reboot of D&D multiverse during 2nd-3rd transition and later the 4th Ed the cosmology was altered radically.
Rex Azalin was manipulated by Vecna to cause a lot of troubles, and the demiplane of the dread was almost destroyed, but to fix the damages some changes were necessary. Some characters had to be replaced with variants.
There is a "secret layer" in the demiplane, the original "core" but without the dark lords but some couple, and most of sentient population. Now it is working like a cosmic firewall in the space-time continium because there are intruders from Innistrard and Duskmourn, and also like a fake exit door to trick who try escape.
Wolfweres shouldn't be too hard to be updated to 5e, are they? And now the dark lords lack stats, because the intention is these could face PC in every level.
The awesome thing about Dungeon & Dragons is that Wizards of the Coast doesn't dictate anything. They control absolutely nothing. At. All.
So if I want Barovia to exist in Candyland, then it does. If I want it to exist within Middle Earth, suddenly it's in Middle Earth. Your table is yours. And no one can tell you any different.
Naa... it needed the updates to fit the current storyline. Barovia always had an origin, so they just gave more details, as for the Shadowfell, when it was made, it pulled a ton of places and being into it, Shar was a very sneaky goddess when she made it.
The other changes just fix game mechanics and world balance and are non-issues. A DM can make adjustment to NPCs at any time to fit the game and the players. The base rules are merely a suggestion. I would personally go with the suggestions until level 9 when your min/max RP focused players can god mode over equal level content while being able to fully RP... So adding more minions, more challenges ... sorry my pain as a DM in the last bit.
No game dictates anything you do. Are the supposed to come to your house and tell you not to break some rules? lol. The expectation is that you play the game according to the rules. If you can't then you need to use the word "Homebrew" to indicate how far you digress from the basic ruleset.
Not Dungeons & Dragons. You don't have to follow the rules in the book, if they don't suit your table's play style.
It says so right in the Player's Handbook.
Which time? Ravenloft lore has changed in almost every book published. :-)
It definitely turned me off as well. They basically erased and rebooted the entire setting. Like what they did to the Forgotten Realms in 4e… but worse since all the old stories also never happened.
It was my favourite setting and it felt like it was updated by people who weren’t fans and just didn’t know anything and were given free license to reboot. And it didn’t even get the tone right!
And while I can always run Ravenloft adventures using the old lore, it hurts to know something I love is basically gone and newcomers won’t be introduced to that world.
The first 3 editions aren't altered nearly as much as the 4th and 5th editions, most of the main and supporting characters have been changed almost completely and most of the Darklords don't even have stats, you're only given suggestions to turn them into DMPCs.
I read the Second Edition Ravenloft books. They're drastically different from Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft.
That has never been the expectation. In every edition to my knowledge it has encouraged rulings over rules. The whole point of the DM—at least up unto recently when we have seen a shift in the orientation of how the IP is handled with just about every book marketed to players and not DMs—is to arbitrate decisions that might or might not be informed by the rules. Many players in the past did not even own a copy of the rules. One category of problem player over the years has defined and described those who are so deeply mired in the rules they question the decisions of the DM as if they were running the game. Nowadays with players more obsessed with "builds" and "options" than they are exploring the world put before them and telling a story this type of player is everywhere.
Barovia originally didn't come from any of the known D&D Worlds.
The AD&D original never stated where or what Barovia was prior to Strahd's fall. All things however have a beginning, so one can make a guess, with Barovia there were 2 main theories in the 90s, 1st it was a mirror/copy of a real place made when Strahd fell, and the other was it was literally ripped from an unknown world in full. By 5th D&D writers picked the 2nd most popular theory and made it ripped from Toril. No big deal. Acting like there was a definitive lore origin in second means you didn't read the old material. And if you base your belief on DM suggested dialogue then you will miss that every piece of Suggested NPC dialogue is contradicted elsewhere. That was the beauty of Ravenloft in the 90s everything was a lie, everyone is evil, and you just want to escape this trap.
It makes little sense for Barovia's origins to be in Toril provided Toril's medievalism. Barovia looks and feels like 19th-century Eastern Europe and would be anachronistic in the Realms.
I think everyone has this wrong idea about the tech level of Toril as a planet. The Sword Coast is like the wild west, and has a 1600s aesthetic, but that is one tiny region and a cultural choice of the Region.
Various parts of Toril can be fairly modern, ie early 1900s, remember the Netherese Empire was a Space Age Magictech civilization before Karsus crashed their civilization to the ground. When we last saw Kara-Tur they were almost using Steam Power, I wonder if WotC will ever touch the setting again.
Since Barovia is now from Toril, they have still been vague as to where exactly, but not when. There are a few regions that work, and none are on the sword coast. Which means the fashion would be influenced by which ever region they were from.
Snipping what someone says out of context is not cool.
Are you suggesting a setting in a piece of fiction made up from wholecloth has an anachronistic mishmash of aesthetics? I am shocked! Shocked I tell you! Driver, take my hansom cab to the agora, I must tell my fellow sages about this grave error!
Here is a quote from the book, Ravenloft Realm of Terror:
'Many centuries past, in a world now forgotten, the warrior-noble Strahd von Zarovich settled in a land called Barovia, in a castle known as Ravenloft. That castle, and the horrid events which took place there, spawned an entire realm of terror. Castle Ravenloft now lies lost within the Ethereal Plane, in the Demiplane of Dread. The fortress sits in the center of the misty realm like a beating heart, pumping evil and sorrow to even the most distant fingers of the land. The realm takes its name from Strahd's castle; "Ravenloft" has become synonymous with the entire plane. "Castle Ravenloft" refers to the fortress itself'
And, I own that book as well, (purchased new).
That was why I said, back in AD&D there was an origin but it was never made clear. When you read that passage it can be interpreted multiple ways. WotC choose option B. No big deal.