I think I just kind of like the idea of Dark Sun more than I actually like playing that way. (Not trying to say my experience is universal, by any means.)
I'm sure it's not universal, but my experience is that players who find that sort of bookkeeping fun are a fairly small minority. It's comparable to actually tracking (non-expensive) spell components.
There’s also the part where I’m not sure they’d want to take the time to make the whole “no iron” thing viable- in 10 years I don’t think we’ve seen a single official attempt to introduce an optional overhaul to the basic units of weapon combat. Most likely because that would be a lot of work to make somewhat viable but probably wouldn’t be much of a draw to buyers. Adding new player options is a lot more attractive than making existing systems more complex and less favorable to the player.
There's a few ways they could do "no iron."
The easiest way is to just say that, in Dark Sun, all the weapons are bone or obsidian but work as written. And then have iron weapons be rarer and just... better. Iron weapons do an extra 1d4 damage or something.
Or they could add a breakage rule that only applies to bone and glass weapons but makes that fun.
There’s also the part where I’m not sure they’d want to take the time to make the whole “no iron” thing viable- in 10 years I don’t think we’ve seen a single official attempt to introduce an optional overhaul to the basic units of weapon combat. Most likely because that would be a lot of work to make somewhat viable but probably wouldn’t be much of a draw to buyers. Adding new player options is a lot more attractive than making existing systems more complex and less favorable to the player.
There's a few ways they could do "no iron."
The easiest way is to just say that, in Dark Sun, all the weapons are bone or obsidian but work as written. And then have iron weapons be rarer and just... better. Iron weapons do an extra 1d4 damage or something.
Or they could add a breakage rule that only applies to bone and glass weapons but makes that fun.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve yet to encounter a weapon breakage system that was fun.
Even if WotC dared to update the setting there is a serious risk of wrath by old players telling "this isn't my DS".
This feels like a problem that will resolve itself to truly marginal status in ~20 years.
That said, I recently played in a Spelljammer game that spent some time dabbling in Athas. Over-all it was run just fine by a DM who grew up having played in the setting and did a good job making it enjoyable for myself, who was also familiar, and some of the other players who were newer and unfamiliar with the world. With Dark Sun being a bit niche, I expect it will currently continue forward on the backs of dedicated fans making homebrew and supplements for the foreseeable future.
Even if WotC dared to update the setting there is a serious risk of wrath by old players telling "this isn't my DS".
This feels like a problem that will resolve itself to truly marginal status in ~20 years.
Which is why I HATE the new version of Ravenloft.
If they had just ignored the setting, curous people could still go to the old books and fans could update the content. But because they entirely nuked the setting, new players will only know this version of the setting. The setting I loved will have been erased. As if it never was. And all the work by all the old authors spent fleshing out this world and adding elements—their contributions and legacy to the D&D game—will be forgotten.
I think the problem is that the people that want DS, want it with all the ugly bits. I don't think anyone is arguing that "official post-apocalyptic survival DnD" is impossible, or even some DS-adjacent setting is impossible, just that it wouldn't be what the OP and others were asking for.
Even if WotC dared to update the setting there is a serious risk of wrath by old players telling "this isn't my DS".
This feels like a problem that will resolve itself to truly marginal status in ~20 years.
Which is why I HATE the new version of Ravenloft.
If they had just ignored the setting, curous people could still go to the old books and fans could update the content. But because they entirely nuked the setting, new players will only know this version of the setting. The setting I loved will have been erased. As if it never was. And all the work by all the old authors spent fleshing out this world and adding elements—their contributions and legacy to the D&D game—will be forgotten.
Different strokes for different folks. This version of Ravenloft is my favorite.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve yet to encounter a weapon breakage system that was fun.
Usually, I find that the mechanic itself is never fun, but it can be a useful tool in bringing about something else that can be fun. I liked it in Oblivion because it gave materials reasons to have sidearms and made me feel more like an actual soldier rather than in Skyrim where you just had your favourite sword and nothing else. You never really needed to carry a dagger. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom was more controversial...but it did allow a wider range of weapons and, at least in the early game, created a sense of scavenging and improvisation (to preserve your weapons).
I don't know if D&D is really suited to it though, and whether I'd actually enjoy it - Oblivion and Zelda are computer games and did the bean counting for me.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I imagine 5e Ravenloft in the same continuity than 2nd ed. The Core region was shaterred because Vecna wanted revenge against the dark powers and he used Rex Azalin for his wicked machinations, and these worked mostly. Some characters returned to the material plane and they couldn't be catched by the dark powers again, then these abducted variants, for example the Weathermay-Foxgrove twins.
At least there is a "time sphere", demiplane imitating the region of Tyr where Kalak was killed because this is an event that had to happen. Even if chronomancers could change the past of Athas, the facts of DS novels still be happening in this "time sphere".
The tribal-punk artistic style of DS is too good to not selling merchandising. We shouldn't forget this.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve yet to encounter a weapon breakage system that was fun.
Usually, I find that the mechanic itself is never fun, but it can be a useful tool in bringing about something else that can be fun. I liked it in Oblivion because it gave materials reasons to have sidearms and made me feel more like an actual soldier rather than in Skyrim where you just had your favourite sword and nothing else. You never really needed to carry a dagger. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom was more controversial...but it did allow a wider range of weapons and, at least in the early game, created a sense of scavenging and improvisation (to preserve your weapons).
I don't know if D&D is really suited to it though, and whether I'd actually enjoy it - Oblivion and Zelda are computer games and did the bean counting for me.
Oblivion never actually broke them, which wasn't so bad. It was mostly just a maintenance cost and something you hoarded the consumable for. BotW is kinda not great because you can run into the "what if I use a good weapon up right before I really need it?" effect.
I imagine 5e Ravenloft in the same continuity than 2nd ed. The Core region was shaterred because Vecna wanted revenge against the dark powers and he used Rex Azalin for his wicked machinations, and these worked mostly. Some characters returned to the material plane and they couldn't be catched by the dark powers again, then these abducted variants, for example the Weathermay-Foxgrove twins.
Which is entirely head canon and not reflected in any of the text. And ignores all the 3e Ravenloft content that was released after Vecna escaped.
And it ignores things like Van Richten being alive rather than trapped in Richten Haus and the year being the same as the original Black Box. Without getting to the completely rewritten Dementlieu and Falkovnia and Lamordia.
Even if WotC dared to update the setting there is a serious risk of wrath by old players telling "this isn't my DS".
This feels like a problem that will resolve itself to truly marginal status in ~20 years.
Which is why I HATE the new version of Ravenloft.
If they had just ignored the setting, curous people could still go to the old books and fans could update the content. But because they entirely nuked the setting, new players will only know this version of the setting. The setting I loved will have been erased. As if it never was. And all the work by all the old authors spent fleshing out this world and adding elements—their contributions and legacy to the D&D game—will be forgotten.
Different strokes for different folks. This version of Ravenloft is my favorite.
Sure. And some people liked the 4e version of the Forgotten Realms and the Saga version of Dragonlance.
But they could have done a lot of what they did with the 5e version of Ravenloft without erasing the old. Since they were basically doing stand-alone islands, they could have just done new lands and new domains rather than redesign old ones.
There is a simple solution, just do what dark sun: shattered lands and dark sun: wake of the ravanger computer games did. Remove water and food tracking and remove weapon breaking. keep the mention of slaves but don't show on screen and have it going on off screen so people know slavery is a thing and slave revolts happen, make the character start out as gladiators that have to break free and escape slavery or be in the free city statwle of Tyr.
Besides the hard core fans of dark sun what brought alot of people who were not familiar with the setting, into dark sun was the computer games. Yes people will complain not my Dark sun but those same people said the same thing about the computer game version, the 2nd edition revised, 3rd edition from dragon magazine, and 4th edition.
WotC could publish a sourcebook style "Sandstorm" with a chapter about two settings: Jackandor and Dark Sun. Then we would be who choose if the Asherati PC specie (from Sandstorm) could be allowed. Maybe a sourcebook style "Traveler's Memories" where the travelers has been not only in Athas but also in Jackandor and other wildspaces.
The slavery could be present in the region of Tyr, but not mentioned but when there is some oportunity slaves to earn their freedom and slavers to be punished.
We also would have to choose how would be the Athasian Feywild, the "land within the wind" because this could become the new home of fugitive slaves.
Maybe the Athaspace is "closed" or blocked because the rogue faction ruled by the githyanki (self-proclaimed) queen Trinth. Or even there is some magic deal between the queen Trinth and the higher Athasian spirits, creating a demiplane like Ravenloft, but more focused into elemental forces and creatures, and an army getting ready to "reconquer" the region of Tyr and take revengue against the sorcerer-kings.
Other point is the canon of the novels. If there is a future media adaptation then the "metaplot" could be rewritten and this may be radically different when it is a movie or a teleserie with different time to tell more or less details.
* A new videogame of Dark Sun is possible, but I would bet for the genre of survival. Currently instead starting from zero a better option would be licenting to a videogame with enough experience with survival videogames.
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I'm sure it's not universal, but my experience is that players who find that sort of bookkeeping fun are a fairly small minority. It's comparable to actually tracking (non-expensive) spell components.
There's a few ways they could do "no iron."
The easiest way is to just say that, in Dark Sun, all the weapons are bone or obsidian but work as written. And then have iron weapons be rarer and just... better. Iron weapons do an extra 1d4 damage or something.
Or they could add a breakage rule that only applies to bone and glass weapons but makes that fun.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve yet to encounter a weapon breakage system that was fun.
This feels like a problem that will resolve itself to truly marginal status in ~20 years.
That said, I recently played in a Spelljammer game that spent some time dabbling in Athas. Over-all it was run just fine by a DM who grew up having played in the setting and did a good job making it enjoyable for myself, who was also familiar, and some of the other players who were newer and unfamiliar with the world. With Dark Sun being a bit niche, I expect it will currently continue forward on the backs of dedicated fans making homebrew and supplements for the foreseeable future.
Which is why I HATE the new version of Ravenloft.
If they had just ignored the setting, curous people could still go to the old books and fans could update the content. But because they entirely nuked the setting, new players will only know this version of the setting. The setting I loved will have been erased. As if it never was. And all the work by all the old authors spent fleshing out this world and adding elements—their contributions and legacy to the D&D game—will be forgotten.
Somebody that gets it.
Different strokes for different folks. This version of Ravenloft is my favorite.
Usually, I find that the mechanic itself is never fun, but it can be a useful tool in bringing about something else that can be fun. I liked it in Oblivion because it gave materials reasons to have sidearms and made me feel more like an actual soldier rather than in Skyrim where you just had your favourite sword and nothing else. You never really needed to carry a dagger. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom was more controversial...but it did allow a wider range of weapons and, at least in the early game, created a sense of scavenging and improvisation (to preserve your weapons).
I don't know if D&D is really suited to it though, and whether I'd actually enjoy it - Oblivion and Zelda are computer games and did the bean counting for me.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I imagine 5e Ravenloft in the same continuity than 2nd ed. The Core region was shaterred because Vecna wanted revenge against the dark powers and he used Rex Azalin for his wicked machinations, and these worked mostly. Some characters returned to the material plane and they couldn't be catched by the dark powers again, then these abducted variants, for example the Weathermay-Foxgrove twins.
At least there is a "time sphere", demiplane imitating the region of Tyr where Kalak was killed because this is an event that had to happen. Even if chronomancers could change the past of Athas, the facts of DS novels still be happening in this "time sphere".
The tribal-punk artistic style of DS is too good to not selling merchandising. We shouldn't forget this.
Oblivion never actually broke them, which wasn't so bad. It was mostly just a maintenance cost and something you hoarded the consumable for. BotW is kinda not great because you can run into the "what if I use a good weapon up right before I really need it?" effect.
It basically turns weapons into consumables, and tracking of consumables in general isn't very popular.
Which is entirely head canon and not reflected in any of the text. And ignores all the 3e Ravenloft content that was released after Vecna escaped.
And it ignores things like Van Richten being alive rather than trapped in Richten Haus and the year being the same as the original Black Box. Without getting to the completely rewritten Dementlieu and Falkovnia and Lamordia.
Sure. And some people liked the 4e version of the Forgotten Realms and the Saga version of Dragonlance.
But they could have done a lot of what they did with the 5e version of Ravenloft without erasing the old. Since they were basically doing stand-alone islands, they could have just done new lands and new domains rather than redesign old ones.
There is a simple solution, just do what dark sun: shattered lands and dark sun: wake of the ravanger computer games did. Remove water and food tracking and remove weapon breaking. keep the mention of slaves but don't show on screen and have it going on off screen so people know slavery is a thing and slave revolts happen, make the character start out as gladiators that have to break free and escape slavery or be in the free city statwle of Tyr.
Besides the hard core fans of dark sun what brought alot of people who were not familiar with the setting, into dark sun was the computer games. Yes people will complain not my Dark sun but those same people said the same thing about the computer game version, the 2nd edition revised, 3rd edition from dragon magazine, and 4th edition.
WotC could publish a sourcebook style "Sandstorm" with a chapter about two settings: Jackandor and Dark Sun. Then we would be who choose if the Asherati PC specie (from Sandstorm) could be allowed. Maybe a sourcebook style "Traveler's Memories" where the travelers has been not only in Athas but also in Jackandor and other wildspaces.
The slavery could be present in the region of Tyr, but not mentioned but when there is some oportunity slaves to earn their freedom and slavers to be punished.
We also would have to choose how would be the Athasian Feywild, the "land within the wind" because this could become the new home of fugitive slaves.
Maybe the Athaspace is "closed" or blocked because the rogue faction ruled by the githyanki (self-proclaimed) queen Trinth. Or even there is some magic deal between the queen Trinth and the higher Athasian spirits, creating a demiplane like Ravenloft, but more focused into elemental forces and creatures, and an army getting ready to "reconquer" the region of Tyr and take revengue against the sorcerer-kings.
Other point is the canon of the novels. If there is a future media adaptation then the "metaplot" could be rewritten and this may be radically different when it is a movie or a teleserie with different time to tell more or less details.
* A new videogame of Dark Sun is possible, but I would bet for the genre of survival. Currently instead starting from zero a better option would be licenting to a videogame with enough experience with survival videogames.