Someone please help me understand this. I thought 2024 was created with the intention of still being able to use stuff from 2014, specifically I'm referring to subclasses (Circle of Wildfire for druids, for example), but now I'm being told that no, they aren't compatible at all and need to be completely reworked in order to be used with 2024 rules, rendering all the books before the new core stuff useless. Can someone break down or point to a list somewhere that compares each subclass from the original version to an updated 2024 version so I can see why they need to be rebuilt from the ground up?
All the wotc subclasses work if you have the right toggles set in the builder. If they got updated, you see only the new version (there have been some name changes), if they haven't, you can use the old.
Third party subclasses don't. They've said they're working with the publishers to make it happen, but there's no schedule, guarantee it will for any specific publisher, nor any indication what is involved.
You can make most or all third-party subclasses work by copying them over to a fresh subclass in private homebrew.
That's just it, I'm being told all the previously published official DnD subclasses, except those printed in the new core books, are no good and must be redone to be compatible. I'm trying to figure out why this is necessary.
Who is telling you this? They’re wrong, but I’m curious about the source.
There can be some issues with classes which used to get their subclass at level 1or 2, but it’s pretty simple to deal with. So o guess there is some work, but it’s nothing like you need to redo it completely.
Conceptually, they slot together fairly well- there's probably a few odd interactions, features that don't mesh nicely, or exploits out there because it's unlikely they did a line by line comparison to all the subclasses with each iteration of the new main classes, but there's nothing inherently or unworkably broken between the two, so saying they're objectively incompatible is just wrong. Now, a DM/table is free to institute a rule that you may not cross 2024 main class features with 2014 subclasses, and that's purely a matter of individual prerogatives. Work that out or leave the table as it suits you.
We’re playing our first 2024 rules campaign, using Light of Xaryxis. The party includes an Aberrant Sorcerer (all 2024), a Drakewarden Ranger (2024 class, 2014 subclass), Oath of the Watchers Paladin (2024 class, 2014 subclass) and an Armourer Artificer (all 2014) and haven’t hit any significant problems. (We play in person on paper, so can’t comment on DDB implementation.)
I suspect that whoever is telling you that 2014 subclasses are incompatible with 2024 classes is someone who is very… definite in their opinions. We see people popping up on here every so often who, having spotted some potential wrinkle in the new rules, then extrapolate from that to declare the whole of 2024 kaputt.
Most (if not all - I'm giving myself wriggle room seeing as I haven't looked at every single one) 2014e Subclasses are compatible with their 2024e Class counterparts. The only issue is that they've declared that if a Subclass has a 2024e version, then you must use that with the 2024e Class and not the 2014e version of the Subclass*. Otherwise, it's fine (with a bit of jiggery pokery to get the features to line up with the different levels they come at).
* Which is one of my peeves about the implementation. I'm fine with that rule for, say, AL. However, I wish DDB would act more like a tool that supports me in play rather than as a referee and let me just use 2014e Subclasses with 2024e Classes.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If you're asking if you can play on paper, and mix 2024 and 2014 classes/subclasses onto the same character, then yes, you can.
If you use DnD Beyond for your character sheet, then no, it is not compatible. You cannot take a 2014 subclass onto a 2024 class, and there's a lot of stuff that you need to end up homebrewing because it doesn't work the way they programmed it (like taking Eldritch Invocations from non PHB sources, which since they weren't in the PHB are still valid, into the 2024 Warlock). THis is especially true of subclasses from sources outside the PHB, they are not compatible at all with DnD Beyond and 2024 classes.
If you're asking about power levels, in other words having a 2014 character alongside a 2024 character, the 2024 character is much stronger. They get advantage in more circumstances, weapon mastery, more things to use their Bonus Actions on, and spells do more damage and give more healing. In fact some classes in 2024 do TWICE the damage that their 2014 versions can do (unless your DM allows the 2014 characters to use some 2024 content, which causes even more issues of trying to decide which ruleset applies to any given situation).
So, to summarize, it depends on your definition of "compatible".
If you're asking if you can play on paper, and mix 2024 and 2014 classes/subclasses onto the same character, then yes, you can.
If you use DnD Beyond for your character sheet, then no, it is not compatible. You cannot take a 2014 subclass onto a 2024 class, and there's a lot of stuff that you need to end up homebrewing because it doesn't work the way they programmed it (like taking Eldritch Invocations from non PHB sources, which since they weren't in the PHB are still valid, into the 2024 Warlock). THis is especially true of subclasses from sources outside the PHB, they are not compatible at all with DnD Beyond and 2024 classes.
If you're asking about power levels, in other words having a 2014 character alongside a 2024 character, the 2024 character is much stronger. They get advantage in more circumstances, weapon mastery, more things to use their Bonus Actions on, and spells do more damage and give more healing. In fact some classes in 2024 do TWICE the damage that their 2014 versions can do (unless your DM allows the 2014 characters to use some 2024 content, which causes even more issues of trying to decide which ruleset applies to any given situation).
So, to summarize, it depends on your definition of "compatible".
Odd you say that. I just made a test character 2024 fighter with Samurai subclass. Unless you meant can’t take a 2014 subclass that was updated in the 2024 PHB. https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/137751325/bpguZB
If you use DnD Beyond for your character sheet, then no, it is not compatible. You cannot take a 2014 subclass onto a 2024 class,
This is simply untrue. There is one wotc subclass that doesn't work right with the new rules, because it was made to work with the mass-summon spells that no longer exist. There are a few others (Hexblade) that are weakened because some of their main features got worked into the main class, but they still can be taken, and they work.
Third-party don't, but that seems to be licensing first and foremost. If you port them over by hand, there are no inherent problems.
If you're asking about power levels, in other words having a 2014 character alongside a 2024 character, the 2024 character is much stronger. They get advantage in more circumstances, weapon mastery, more things to use their Bonus Actions on, and spells do more damage and give more healing. In fact some classes in 2024 do TWICE the damage that their 2014 versions can do
Which would those be, and are they ones where the 2014 version wasn't so great?
(Also, twice as much damage under what circumstances?)
(unless your DM allows the 2014 characters to use some 2024 content, which causes even more issues of trying to decide which ruleset applies to any given situation).
If you're using different versions of the spells for the 2014 and 2024 classes, well... I'm not saying you can't, but it's certainly not a choice I'd advise.
If you use DnD Beyond for your character sheet, then no, it is not compatible. You cannot take a 2014 subclass onto a 2024 class, and there's a lot of stuff that you need to end up homebrewing because it doesn't work the way they programmed it (like taking Eldritch Invocations from non PHB sources, which since they weren't in the PHB are still valid, into the 2024 Warlock). THis is especially true of subclasses from sources outside the PHB, they are not compatible at all with DnD Beyond and 2024 classes
That’ll come as a surprise to quite a few people in my games who are playing 2024 characters with old subclasses. That includes a Sorcerer using the Shadow Magic subclass, a 2024 Warlock using Hexblade and a Circle of Spores Druid, all created in D&D Beyond with zero issues besides one Hexblade feature that’s now built into pact of the blade
If you use DnD Beyond for your character sheet, then no, it is not compatible. You cannot take a 2014 subclass onto a 2024 class, and there's a lot of stuff that you need to end up homebrewing because it doesn't work the way they programmed it (like taking Eldritch Invocations from non PHB sources, which since they weren't in the PHB are still valid, into the 2024 Warlock). THis is especially true of subclasses from sources outside the PHB, they are not compatible at all with DnD Beyond and 2024 classes
That’ll come as a surprise to quite a few people in my games who are playing 2024 characters with old subclasses. That includes a Sorcerer using the Shadow Magic subclass, a 2024 Warlock using Hexblade and a Circle of Spores Druid, all created in D&D Beyond with zero issues besides one Hexblade feature that’s now built into pact of the blade
Every one of our Warlocks in our 3 campaigns have issues where abilities they are allowed to have, are not available in DnD Beyond.
I personally have 2 characters that had to be homebrewed because the 2024 versions don't have the ability to select some of the content from Xanathar's Guide and Tasha's that their 2014 versions have - and have not had their rules change.
In fact, of our 3 current campaigns, I believe there's only one player who was actually able to convert their character to 2024 without issue. ALL of the others are running into issues where DnD Beyond simply can't do what the rules allow.
For example (I could name about 20 examples, i'll keep my list short for brevity): Eldritch Invocations - were programmed in as class features. As such most of the Eldritch Invocations from non-PHB sources are no longer available in DnD Beyond for the 2024 Warlock - this isn't a rules issue, it's a programming issue (already confirmed here). It is a limitation because of the way they coded them originally. Races from non-PHB sources aren't pulling thru all of their abilities/spells/etc. unless you play a 2014 class. Subclasses from non-PHB sources aren't all showing up in the list of choices for 2024 classes.
I just converted an 11th level Warlock last night to 2024. Half my racial abilities/spells had to be homebrewed back in (racial not class), as well as about a third of the abilities from my subclass. The race and subclass are from non PHB sources (monsters of multiverse and Xanathar's, I believe).
If you're lucky enough to be playing something that isn't having issues, congrats! But there are a TON of compatibility issues when using DnD Beyond (again, not a rules issue, it's a programming issue - as I stated). If you play using pen and paper, you won't have a problem except in the power levels between 2014 and 2024 characters (for example the 2024 Sorcerer can do twice the damage that a 2014 Sorcerer can do when you consider Innate Sorcery and the changes to Witch Bolt - combine the two and that's 10 rounds of attacking with advantage and doing literally twice the damage/round since Witch Bolt can now be combined with Fire Bolt (or any non-concentration spell)).
Again, if you're lucky enough to have one of the races/class/subclass that isn't having issues, then you're lucky.
It seems odd to me that you and your friends are all having so many problems when everyone else in this thread is playing perfectly happily with zero issues
It seems odd to me that you and your friends are all having so many problems when everyone else in this thread is playing perfectly happily with zero issues
In fairness, it seems like they're running a lot of Warlocks, and the Warlock class has had a disproportionate number of issues in the new rollout, much more so than a lot of other classes (mostly due to the Eldritch Invocation options, a huge number of which have had some kind of problem or other).
I’m glad I was able to find this thread. I was looking through the 2024 PHB and was concerned about the limit of subclasses. Now I’m less worried about playing the new rule set. Thanks!
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Someone please help me understand this. I thought 2024 was created with the intention of still being able to use stuff from 2014, specifically I'm referring to subclasses (Circle of Wildfire for druids, for example), but now I'm being told that no, they aren't compatible at all and need to be completely reworked in order to be used with 2024 rules, rendering all the books before the new core stuff useless. Can someone break down or point to a list somewhere that compares each subclass from the original version to an updated 2024 version so I can see why they need to be rebuilt from the ground up?
All the wotc subclasses work if you have the right toggles set in the builder. If they got updated, you see only the new version (there have been some name changes), if they haven't, you can use the old.
Third party subclasses don't. They've said they're working with the publishers to make it happen, but there's no schedule, guarantee it will for any specific publisher, nor any indication what is involved.
You can make most or all third-party subclasses work by copying them over to a fresh subclass in private homebrew.
That's just it, I'm being told all the previously published official DnD subclasses, except those printed in the new core books, are no good and must be redone to be compatible. I'm trying to figure out why this is necessary.
Who is telling you this? They’re wrong, but I’m curious about the source.
There can be some issues with classes which used to get their subclass at level 1or 2, but it’s pretty simple to deal with. So o guess there is some work, but it’s nothing like you need to redo it completely.
A discord server I play on.
Conceptually, they slot together fairly well- there's probably a few odd interactions, features that don't mesh nicely, or exploits out there because it's unlikely they did a line by line comparison to all the subclasses with each iteration of the new main classes, but there's nothing inherently or unworkably broken between the two, so saying they're objectively incompatible is just wrong. Now, a DM/table is free to institute a rule that you may not cross 2024 main class features with 2014 subclasses, and that's purely a matter of individual prerogatives. Work that out or leave the table as it suits you.
We’re playing our first 2024 rules campaign, using Light of Xaryxis. The party includes an Aberrant Sorcerer (all 2024), a Drakewarden Ranger (2024 class, 2014 subclass), Oath of the Watchers Paladin (2024 class, 2014 subclass) and an Armourer Artificer (all 2014) and haven’t hit any significant problems. (We play in person on paper, so can’t comment on DDB implementation.)
I suspect that whoever is telling you that 2014 subclasses are incompatible with 2024 classes is someone who is very… definite in their opinions. We see people popping up on here every so often who, having spotted some potential wrinkle in the new rules, then extrapolate from that to declare the whole of 2024 kaputt.
Most (if not all - I'm giving myself wriggle room seeing as I haven't looked at every single one) 2014e Subclasses are compatible with their 2024e Class counterparts. The only issue is that they've declared that if a Subclass has a 2024e version, then you must use that with the 2024e Class and not the 2014e version of the Subclass*. Otherwise, it's fine (with a bit of jiggery pokery to get the features to line up with the different levels they come at).
* Which is one of my peeves about the implementation. I'm fine with that rule for, say, AL. However, I wish DDB would act more like a tool that supports me in play rather than as a referee and let me just use 2014e Subclasses with 2024e Classes.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
"Compatible" has many meanings.
If you're asking if you can play on paper, and mix 2024 and 2014 classes/subclasses onto the same character, then yes, you can.
If you use DnD Beyond for your character sheet, then no, it is not compatible. You cannot take a 2014 subclass onto a 2024 class, and there's a lot of stuff that you need to end up homebrewing because it doesn't work the way they programmed it (like taking Eldritch Invocations from non PHB sources, which since they weren't in the PHB are still valid, into the 2024 Warlock). THis is especially true of subclasses from sources outside the PHB, they are not compatible at all with DnD Beyond and 2024 classes.
If you're asking about power levels, in other words having a 2014 character alongside a 2024 character, the 2024 character is much stronger. They get advantage in more circumstances, weapon mastery, more things to use their Bonus Actions on, and spells do more damage and give more healing. In fact some classes in 2024 do TWICE the damage that their 2014 versions can do (unless your DM allows the 2014 characters to use some 2024 content, which causes even more issues of trying to decide which ruleset applies to any given situation).
So, to summarize, it depends on your definition of "compatible".
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Odd you say that. I just made a test character 2024 fighter with Samurai subclass. Unless you meant can’t take a 2014 subclass that was updated in the 2024 PHB.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/137751325/bpguZB
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
This is simply untrue. There is one wotc subclass that doesn't work right with the new rules, because it was made to work with the mass-summon spells that no longer exist. There are a few others (Hexblade) that are weakened because some of their main features got worked into the main class, but they still can be taken, and they work.
Third-party don't, but that seems to be licensing first and foremost. If you port them over by hand, there are no inherent problems.
Which would those be, and are they ones where the 2014 version wasn't so great?
(Also, twice as much damage under what circumstances?)
If you're using different versions of the spells for the 2014 and 2024 classes, well... I'm not saying you can't, but it's certainly not a choice I'd advise.
That’ll come as a surprise to quite a few people in my games who are playing 2024 characters with old subclasses. That includes a Sorcerer using the Shadow Magic subclass, a 2024 Warlock using Hexblade and a Circle of Spores Druid, all created in D&D Beyond with zero issues besides one Hexblade feature that’s now built into pact of the blade
Every one of our Warlocks in our 3 campaigns have issues where abilities they are allowed to have, are not available in DnD Beyond.
I personally have 2 characters that had to be homebrewed because the 2024 versions don't have the ability to select some of the content from Xanathar's Guide and Tasha's that their 2014 versions have - and have not had their rules change.
In fact, of our 3 current campaigns, I believe there's only one player who was actually able to convert their character to 2024 without issue. ALL of the others are running into issues where DnD Beyond simply can't do what the rules allow.
For example (I could name about 20 examples, i'll keep my list short for brevity): Eldritch Invocations - were programmed in as class features. As such most of the Eldritch Invocations from non-PHB sources are no longer available in DnD Beyond for the 2024 Warlock - this isn't a rules issue, it's a programming issue (already confirmed here). It is a limitation because of the way they coded them originally. Races from non-PHB sources aren't pulling thru all of their abilities/spells/etc. unless you play a 2014 class. Subclasses from non-PHB sources aren't all showing up in the list of choices for 2024 classes.
I just converted an 11th level Warlock last night to 2024. Half my racial abilities/spells had to be homebrewed back in (racial not class), as well as about a third of the abilities from my subclass. The race and subclass are from non PHB sources (monsters of multiverse and Xanathar's, I believe).
If you're lucky enough to be playing something that isn't having issues, congrats! But there are a TON of compatibility issues when using DnD Beyond (again, not a rules issue, it's a programming issue - as I stated). If you play using pen and paper, you won't have a problem except in the power levels between 2014 and 2024 characters (for example the 2024 Sorcerer can do twice the damage that a 2014 Sorcerer can do when you consider Innate Sorcery and the changes to Witch Bolt - combine the two and that's 10 rounds of attacking with advantage and doing literally twice the damage/round since Witch Bolt can now be combined with Fire Bolt (or any non-concentration spell)).
Again, if you're lucky enough to have one of the races/class/subclass that isn't having issues, then you're lucky.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
It seems odd to me that you and your friends are all having so many problems when everyone else in this thread is playing perfectly happily with zero issues
In fairness, it seems like they're running a lot of Warlocks, and the Warlock class has had a disproportionate number of issues in the new rollout, much more so than a lot of other classes (mostly due to the Eldritch Invocation options, a huge number of which have had some kind of problem or other).
Yeah, Eldritch Invocations are screwy between 2014 and 2024 in the character builder. Not surprising, given the extent of the retool there.
I’m glad I was able to find this thread. I was looking through the 2024 PHB and was concerned about the limit of subclasses. Now I’m less worried about playing the new rule set. Thanks!