In addition to what Nat_30 says, because there is still societal oppression against LGBTQIA* folks (particularly trans/intersex individuals, since lesbian, gay, and to a lesser extent bisexual, people have been somewhat accepted by society) it's important for folks to develop queer communities and talk about their identities with one another and with folks who aren't LGBTQ to gain potential allies. I always bristle a little when someone says something like "well why does it even matter?" or "why do we even have to talk about it?" The reason it matters is that people are still getting beat up and killed for being gay and/or trans, people are being denied basic rights, etc. It's like when someone says "race doesn't matter." Well, actually, it does matter, because racism is a real thing that exists and not talking about race doesn't make it go away.
I don't mean to get all serious but it seems to kind of keep coming up. I think that "I just see you as a human" is great in theory, but I'd rather it be "I see you as a human, and all of the aspects of your identity are valid and important in making you who you are and I will treat you with dignity" is better.
I 100% agree. This is the point I've been trying to make, but I think you explained it better. :)
These are two things that support the ongoing and currently deeply hostile environment in the broader world towards LGBTQ+ folks. Who can also be called SGM (Sexand Gender Minorities).
No being noticed means that folks will generally tend to stick to the default, and unintentionally make spaces and places somewhat hostile or feel unwelcomign to LGBTQ people.
It also feeds into the way that some folks tend to conflate Sexually Explicit stuff with being LGBTQ+. The two are not only not the same, they are completely unrelated. If the first thing you think of is someone having sex when people introduce LGBTQ+ things, you are part of the problem, dead stop.
If you have openly LGBTQ folks -- and, right now, especially if you have openly Trans and gender Diverse folks, at your table and in your session, be aware that they are suggesting that they have at least some trust in you that you will not make them feel unwelcome or less than.
And you should notice, and you should take some time to make sure that their joy is as great as your own.
Shouldn't this apply to everyone at every table not just one group?
I have played several games at mostly LGB tables that were very fun and inclusive, I have also noped out 20 minutes into session 0 that had nothing to do with LGB.
Not every table or game is for everyone the key is communication not forced inclusivity.
@kayakingpoodle I'm not sure if it's on purpose or not, but please don't just say "LGB". It's the terminology used in the incredibly transphobic "Drop the T" movement, and is associated with the also transphobic LGB Alliance. At the very least, please use LGBT, or better yet something more inclusive like LGBTQIA or something similar.
I AM NOT ACCUSING YOU OF BEING A TRANSPHOBE, and in fact you're probably not, I'm just pointing out that LGB is often used to deliberately exclude trans* people and I want to let you know that using that specific acronym does come off as transphobic.
If you've read to the bottom and are reading this part of my message, I am going to assume you are not a transphobe, and just didn't know which terminology to use, in which case, thank you for reading and have a great day.
This is interesting. I was unaware that the US had such a big problem with this kind of thing and I wonder if there are wider cultural issues that are not the root cause of the things you talk about but either way; I will admit, I am somewhat confused and I am honestly not sure why you say things like:
I always bristle a little when someone says something like "well why does it even matter?" or "why do we even have to talk about it?"
I am confused because a persons sexuality or preferred or chosen gender or even lack of any sexuality or gender, really doesn't matter to me. They are still a person regardless and a person is a person. Suggesting that they are treated differently because of some aspect of their identity is rather absurd to me. From my perspective, if I am friends with someone who identifies differently to myself, then how they identify really does make no difference and I treat them no differently to any of the people I love or care about.
Even I they are just passing strangers who have come to my D&D session - how they identify still does not matter to me and I treat them no differently to how I treat any other person I might meet in this or any other circumstance. I treat them like a person.
As to your other point - talking about it. Why would anybody; regardless of how they identify, need to talk about their view of self anymore than is necessary. If someone is gay or lesbian for example and they are talking about their boyfriend or girlfriend then I would expect them to say "my boyfriend" or "my girlfriend" (or husband and wife as the case may be) just like any heterosexual person would. There is no need to enter into some big discussion about how they are gay or lesbian and the same is true for those who identify as a different gender or have no specific gender but prefer a particular pronoun.
If I say he or she for example and I have referred to the person with the incorrect pronoun, I would expect to be corrected. I would expect the person or the people I was talking to, to say actually I/they are male or female - as the case maybe and then I will correct my pronouns in the future. There is no need to delve into some big deep conversation because Ii just doesn't matter. It doesn't make that person any less than a person and it doesn't change my attitudes towards or opinions of them.
When you talk about people getting assaulted or murdered or whatever, then we have laws in our society that say those things are wrong. They are not wrong based on sexuality or gender or the lack there of, they are just wrong because its wrong to assault or murder anybody - it doesn't matter who they are.
I can only speak for myself but I personally think if everyone took this approach, there would be no issue. No it might not correct the problem right now but in time, as new generations are exposed to such attitudes or opinions, things would change. As they have already begun to do. Neverwinter was not built in a day - it takes time for any great and worthy thing to gain permanence in this world.
Ugh I think this is getting to complex for a forum discussion. Especially since I have pretty much diverged quite a bit from the original intent of the discussion. So maybe I should just end this off here and pray to Pelor that you understand what I have been rambling about LOL.
PS: I know you were not addressing me personally in you reply. I have just spoken as myself because I am the only person whom I can truly and accurately represent. Or at least try to anyway LOL.
First off, you mentioned being confused at the statement that you quoted, so I will explain. People say things like this not because they believe that being queer changes anything about a person, because a gay/mspec, trans*, or acespec/arospec person is still just as kind, intelligent, funny, friendly, brave, and amazing as they would be if they were straight, cisgender, and allosexual/alloromantic. In other words, they are the same person as they would be if they weren't queer.
Rather, when people talk about how it DOES matter, it's a reference to discrimination. The ONLY reason that gender/orientation matter and should be discussed, is because homophobia, biphobia, transphobia, and aphobia, are still problems, and are dangerous to the people these prejudiced beliefs are targeting.
That's why it matters. Not because being queer changes who someone is, but because, unfortunately, it affects our lives. I hope I've answered any questions you have.
And finally, thank you for being so tolerant and welcoming to people who are different to yourself. While bigotry is a real threat right now, it's inclusive folks like you who are helping to create a more accepting and welcoming society. I hope you have a great day. :D
Oh, wow! 24% of the people who saw this thread identified as LGBT. Compared to the general population's percentages of LGBT peoples, DND is HELLA gay.
Fantastic. :D
There might be even more queer people on here than we realize, because the poll was just about orientation, so it's possible that some people who responded "straight" are straight trans people, or perhaps on the aro/ace spectrum. :D
My second thought: "Probably half the D&D club is LGBTQIA+, my campaign I am 28 sessions into DMing has 3/5 players who are LGBTQIA+... Huh."
But my main takeaway here is that I didn't notice (I knew, because they're my friends) because the game is about roleplaying another character, so the character of the players doesn't actually matter. Yes, some of the characters are gay in the game, but that manifests more as flirting and jokes than anything else because they have dragons to slay, the game's about bigger things than romantic interests!
It's also worth noting that I would say D&D attracts a high proportion of people who are ADHD and Autistic as well. I think a massive part of it is that your own personality and such matters less in D&D because you are playing a character, who might have an entirely different personality, which is used for 4-5 hours of the game time vs an hour or so of before & after chat!
In other words, it's inclusive - anyone can make a compelling and fun character to play D&D with. And they do.
Yes, I agree that D&D is a very inclusive game. Not only to LGBTQIAN+ people, but to neurodivergent people as well. (Thanks for pointing that out by the way, I hadn't thought about it)
As someone who is not only queer, but is also both Autistic and ADHD, I feel quite welcome in the wonderful world of D&D. :)
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I 100% agree. This is the point I've been trying to make, but I think you explained it better. :)
@kayakingpoodle I'm not sure if it's on purpose or not, but please don't just say "LGB". It's the terminology used in the incredibly transphobic "Drop the T" movement, and is associated with the also transphobic LGB Alliance. At the very least, please use LGBT, or better yet something more inclusive like LGBTQIA or something similar.
I AM NOT ACCUSING YOU OF BEING A TRANSPHOBE, and in fact you're probably not, I'm just pointing out that LGB is often used to deliberately exclude trans* people and I want to let you know that using that specific acronym does come off as transphobic.
If you've read to the bottom and are reading this part of my message, I am going to assume you are not a transphobe, and just didn't know which terminology to use, in which case, thank you for reading and have a great day.
First off, you mentioned being confused at the statement that you quoted, so I will explain. People say things like this not because they believe that being queer changes anything about a person, because a gay/mspec, trans*, or acespec/arospec person is still just as kind, intelligent, funny, friendly, brave, and amazing as they would be if they were straight, cisgender, and allosexual/alloromantic. In other words, they are the same person as they would be if they weren't queer.
Rather, when people talk about how it DOES matter, it's a reference to discrimination. The ONLY reason that gender/orientation matter and should be discussed, is because homophobia, biphobia, transphobia, and aphobia, are still problems, and are dangerous to the people these prejudiced beliefs are targeting.
That's why it matters. Not because being queer changes who someone is, but because, unfortunately, it affects our lives. I hope I've answered any questions you have.
And finally, thank you for being so tolerant and welcoming to people who are different to yourself. While bigotry is a real threat right now, it's inclusive folks like you who are helping to create a more accepting and welcoming society. I hope you have a great day. :D
There might be even more queer people on here than we realize, because the poll was just about orientation, so it's possible that some people who responded "straight" are straight trans people, or perhaps on the aro/ace spectrum. :D
Yes, I agree that D&D is a very inclusive game. Not only to LGBTQIAN+ people, but to neurodivergent people as well. (Thanks for pointing that out by the way, I hadn't thought about it)
As someone who is not only queer, but is also both Autistic and ADHD, I feel quite welcome in the wonderful world of D&D. :)