One of my players dropped this spell on the battle field last session and it seems very broken for a 3rd level spell compared to higher level spells.
Example 1: You have Advantage on Strength saving throws while you’re within 5 feet of the pack, and when you move on your turn, you can also move the pack up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.
Player cast this spell then next round did this moved 5 feet then moved pack 30 feet to a creature then did an action and then moved 5 feet and moved pack another 30 feet to another creature rinse and repeat.
Example 2: Whenever the pack moves within 10 feet of a creature you can see and whenever a creature you can see enters a space within 10 feet of the pack or ends its turn there, you can force that creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 Slashing damage. A creature makes this save only once per turn.
Each time the pack moved to a creature it incurred the save or take damage. This was done 3 times so at this point 9d10 was done on the battle field for a 3rd level spell. Then it is the creatures turn and when it moves into a 5 feet square to leave the pack its now moving into a space within 10 feet incurring another save. At this point on round two this 3rd level spell now has done 12d10 damage.
The wording of the R.A.W context of the spell makes this very legal but very broken. Can a DEV please confirm this is as R.A.W or is the R.A. I very different.
You've never going to get a developer to confirm things on these forums.
That said, a couple of things.
One, you only "move" once. Yes, your movement can be broken up between action, bonus action, etc but you only have one instance of movement. So when your character moves, it can use the 30 feet of movement the spell allows to move it up to 30 feet, which can be that it moves 10 feet north, then 10 feet south, then 10 feet east.
Two, for your second example? If a creature starts its turn in the area, it can get out without taking damage. The first two clauses are combined, the third clause is separate. This is to prevent you from stepping in and out of spaces to incur damage multiple times on one turn but even if they wanted to, the spell specifically states they can only take the damage once per turn. Now if a creature who started in the area were to step out and back in, it would take damage.
Also, devs will never confirm anything on here. They don't come here, at least not publicly.
3rd Level Druid Conjure Animals
You conjure nature spirits that appear as a Large pack of spectral, intangible animals in an unoccupied space you can see within range. The pack lasts for the duration, and you choose the spirits' animal form, such as wolves, serpents, or birds. You have Advantage on Strength saving throws while you're within 5 feet of the pack, and when you move on your turn, you can also move the pack up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. Whenever the pack moves within 10 feet of a creature you can see and whenever a creature you can see enters a space within 10 feet of the pack or ends its turn there, you can force that creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 Slashing damage. A creature makes this save only once per turn.
Yes, RAW, Conjure Animals works as you've described.
Anytime you move, you can move the pack and damage another creature.
Anytime a creature starts its turn inside the pack's 10-foot danger zone and moves without leaving immediately, it enters another space inside the zone and triggers the damage.
Things to note:
A creature that succeeds on the saving throw takes no damage at all.
It plays faster than the old version, as you don't have to manage 8 additional creatures.
The spell only does damage; with the old version, you could have your animals grapple, shove, block movement, and tank hits.
The spell is fine—maybe a bit overtuned, but not broken.
There is no clause in the spell about "moves without leaving immediately". If it's in the 10 foot area, it can move within that area freely without incurring damage. If it moves out and in, it takes the damage. If it moves within it and ends the turn, it takes damage.
Yes, RAW, Conjure Animals works as you've described.
Anytime you move, you can move the pack and damage another creature.
Anytime a creature starts its turn inside the pack's 10-foot danger zone and moves without leaving immediately, it enters another space inside the zone and triggers the damage.
Things to note:
A creature that succeeds on the saving throw takes no damage at all.
It plays faster than the old version, as you don't have to manage 8 additional creatures.
The spell only does damage; with the old version, you could have your animals grapple, shove, block movement, and tank hits.
The spell is fine—maybe a bit overtuned, but not broken.
There is no clause in the spell about "moves without leaving immediately". If it's in the 10 foot area, it can move within that area freely without incurring damage. If it moves out and in, it takes the damage. If it moves within it and ends the turn, it takes damage.
If you move from one space within the 10-foot area to another space within the 10-foot area, you’ve entered a new space and must make a saving throw. There are many spaces in a 10-foot area around a Large object. It's not "enters the area", it's "enters a space within the area"
(But I was wrong about the first part—you’re right. You only move once, even if you stop and resume moving.)
I think that would be a table difference. I see where you're coming from on that one but I wouldn't rule it that way since it doesn't allow the creature the attempt to leave without taking damage, which goes back to why you probably said what you said. RAW, I think I see the way you're reading it and agree on the RAW ruling.
Yes, RAW, Conjure Animals works as you've described.
Anytime you move, you can move the pack and damage another creature.
Anytime a creature starts its turn inside the pack's 10-foot danger zone and moves without leaving immediately, it enters another space inside the zone and triggers the damage.
Things to note:
A creature that succeeds on the saving throw takes no damage at all.
It plays faster than the old version, as you don't have to manage 8 additional creatures.
The spell only does damage; with the old version, you could have your animals grapple, shove, block movement, and tank hits.
The spell is fine—maybe a bit overtuned, but not broken.
There is no clause in the spell about "moves without leaving immediately". If it's in the 10 foot area, it can move within that area freely without incurring damage. If it moves out and in, it takes the damage. If it moves within it and ends the turn, it takes damage.
If you move from one space within the 10-foot area to another space within the 10-foot area, you’ve entered a new space and must make a saving throw. There are many spaces in a 10-foot area around a Large object. It's not "enters the area", it's "enters a space within the area"
(But I was wrong about the first part—you’re right. You only move once, even if you stop and resume moving.)
So, with this a medium based creature leaving a 5ft square into another within the area invokes the save from what I am understanding. However a larger based creature wouldn't because its not entering that space, it already occupies it.
So, with this a medium based creature leaving a 5ft square into another within the area invokes the save from what I am understanding. However a larger based creature wouldn't because its not entering that space, it already occupies it.
You are forgetting the 'ends its turn inside' it clause. It still means no matter what, no one can be forced to take the damage more than once a turn.
One of my players dropped this spell on the battle field last session and it seems very broken for a 3rd level spell compared to higher level spells.
Example 1: You have Advantage on Strength saving throws while you’re within 5 feet of the pack, and when you move on your turn, you can also move the pack up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.
Player cast this spell then next round did this moved 5 feet then moved pack 30 feet to a creature then did an action and then moved 5 feet and moved pack another 30 feet to another creature rinse and repeat.
Example 2: Whenever the pack moves within 10 feet of a creature you can see and whenever a creature you can see enters a space within 10 feet of the pack or ends its turn there, you can force that creature to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 3d10 Slashing damage. A creature makes this save only once per turn.
Each time the pack moved to a creature it incurred the save or take damage. This was done 3 times so at this point 9d10 was done on the battle field for a 3rd level spell. Then it is the creatures turn and when it moves into a 5 feet square to leave the pack its now moving into a space within 10 feet incurring another save. At this point on round two this 3rd level spell now has done 12d10 damage.
The wording of the R.A.W context of the spell makes this very legal but very broken. Can a DEV please confirm this is as R.A.W or is the R.A. I very different.
What spell are you talking about?
Also, devs will never confirm anything on here. They don't come here, at least not publicly.
You've never going to get a developer to confirm things on these forums.
That said, a couple of things.
One, you only "move" once. Yes, your movement can be broken up between action, bonus action, etc but you only have one instance of movement. So when your character moves, it can use the 30 feet of movement the spell allows to move it up to 30 feet, which can be that it moves 10 feet north, then 10 feet south, then 10 feet east.
Two, for your second example? If a creature starts its turn in the area, it can get out without taking damage. The first two clauses are combined, the third clause is separate. This is to prevent you from stepping in and out of spaces to incur damage multiple times on one turn but even if they wanted to, the spell specifically states they can only take the damage once per turn. Now if a creature who started in the area were to step out and back in, it would take damage.
3rd Level Druid Conjure Animals
There is no clause in the spell about "moves without leaving immediately". If it's in the 10 foot area, it can move within that area freely without incurring damage. If it moves out and in, it takes the damage. If it moves within it and ends the turn, it takes damage.
If you move from one space within the 10-foot area to another space within the 10-foot area, you’ve entered a new space and must make a saving throw. There are many spaces in a 10-foot area around a Large object. It's not "enters the area", it's "enters a space within the area"
(But I was wrong about the first part—you’re right. You only move once, even if you stop and resume moving.)
Sorry for not adding the spell. It is Conjure Animals 2024 version.
Thank you all for the clarification on this.
I think that would be a table difference. I see where you're coming from on that one but I wouldn't rule it that way since it doesn't allow the creature the attempt to leave without taking damage, which goes back to why you probably said what you said. RAW, I think I see the way you're reading it and agree on the RAW ruling.
So, with this a medium based creature leaving a 5ft square into another within the area invokes the save from what I am understanding. However a larger based creature wouldn't because its not entering that space, it already occupies it.
You are forgetting the 'ends its turn inside' it clause.
It still means no matter what, no one can be forced to take the damage more than once a turn.