I wouldn't expect stats on the likes of Titania or Asmodeus from WotC anytime soon; looking at the 2014 DMG and which beings got stats in the Tome of Foes and similar works, it's fairly clear that they've decided to present beings who rate as full-fledged deities or equivalent positions as something core player facing options can affect. Now, the distinction does exist since Orcus had an entry in prior books and if you look at the Domains of Delight supplement they brought out a while ago, there's notes on how to adapt a statblock to an archfey. Now, they'll most likely bring the high tier fiends from Tome of Foes/Monsters of the Multiverse forward sooner or later, but I don't think they're gonna be offering options to square off with the ruler of Hell or the Queen of a Fey court.
Awww, that's a little sad.
I mean, they appeared in the first MM, and the 1e DMG has that entire little adventure play out beneath the random tables where the party of four faces him down. Those meandering strips made me love him as a baddie.
TO your point, though, WotC made him a deity -- and in doing so, moved him into the place where in my worlds he simply cannot be killed (I don't do the "kill a god" storylines). I dislike that, but as we've noted, WotC gonna WotC.
A book of Friends & Foes, where they give stats for all the folks listed in the 2024 DMG Lore glossary would be nice. And would be fitting for the 50th anniversary.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
They might have some of these characters in their setting books. I feel setting books are typically where you want both faction and unique monster stat blocks as well as legendary figure npc's and dieties of those realms.
Actually, that is how burden of proof works. You made the positive claim (or implied one) that there is a meaningful difference in D&D players and how they play between those who choose to take surveys and those who do not. The burden of proof, therefore, becomes yours upon making that claim. Back it up with evidence or it will be dismissed.
It's fairly obvious that the people who visit D&D websites and take the time to fill out polls have a different attitude towards the game than the people who get together a couple times a month with their gaming group and don't think about the game the rest of the time. Only polling high engagement players is a problem a lot of games have.
If disengaged players have a vastly different opinion from engaged players and want an opinion on the future of the game, then perhaps they should become more engaged and actually take part in the surveys they want to share an opinion on. The surveys take less than 30 minutes. If they don't care enough to bother to do that, then they don't care enough about the future of the game for WotC to need to take their opinions into consideration. Besides highly engaged players generally tend to have a more educated opinion about the game than disengaged players anyway.
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
since the default response is usually “say nothing”, there needs to be something of significant value in those negative responses to make them useful.
it reminds me of the “change from inside” problem around policing.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I should point out that some lower level monsters did get weaker, cause they were overtuned in 2014. Monsters of CR 5 and up are generally where most of the buffs went. The new encounter building rules also should be taken into account for battles with monsters. Monsters are generally stronger overall throughout the book.
4. The move towards setting agnostic information means that players will get a bunch of statblocks... but often times very little information about the social structure, history or aspirations of a given monster. As a result GM's who are more narrative focused over mechanical focused may very well have a harder time getting inspiration from the materials provided.
1) The aspirations are there. Ogres raid vulnerable communities. Sphinxes guard the secrets of the multiverse. Barbed Devils scour the planes for treasure. Fomorians want to spread their curse. And so on. That's more than enough to help you decide whether to use a given monster or not.
2) Why would "social structure and history" be in setting agnostic material? Those are setting-specific by definition.
5e-"Infernal collectors, barbed devils fanatically protect troves of treasure and scour the planes of existence for additions to their hoards. Also known as hamatulas among the ranks of the Nine Hells, these devils bedeck their barbed hides with their most prized possessions and trophies taken from those who failed to steal from them. When threatened, barbed devils strike with their thorny limbs and hurl infernal flame.
Barbed devils often serve as guards and accountants for ice devil generals, pit fiend warlords, archdevils, and similarly powerful villains. In return, barbed devils gain protection for their own collections. Many barbed devils also maintain networks of imps that search the planes for treasures of interest or usefully greedy mortals.
Barbed devils rarely collect anything as prosaic as coins and gems. Rather, they pride themselves on having the multiverse’s greatest collection of one kind of thing—typically items of rare pedigree or emblems of power. Barbed devils refuse to steal what they covet; instead they strike bargains to claim both treasure and mortal souls."
5.5e-"Creatures of unbridled greed and desire, barbed devils act as guards to the more powerful denizens of the Nine Hells and their vaults. Resembling a tall humanoid covered in sharp barbs, spines, and hooks, a barbed devil has gleaming eyes that are ever watchful for objects and creatures it might claim for itself. These fiends welcome any chance to fight when victory promises reward.
Barbed devils are known for an alertness that makes them difficult to surprise, and they attend to their duties without boredom or distraction. They use their sharp claws as weapons or hurl balls of flame at foes that try to flee them."
Looking to use one in a game, without knowing about them the 5e description is magnitudes better and comes far closer to the simplified description you used.
How is someone with out knowledge of Barbed devils supposed to take away they "scour the planes for treasure" frome the 5.5e description?
You literally quoted the descriptions backwards. No clue how no one pointed this out.
Any lesser known Chromatic, Metallic + main and lesser known 5 Gem dragons in the book?
Not that I see.
just the standard ones.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
The problem group isn't the people who complain -- those people are in fact high engagement. The problem group is the people who silently stop buying.
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
The problem group isn't the people who complain -- those people are in fact high engagement. The problem group is the people who silently stop buying.
They're a problem if there are enough of them. Better do some market research to figure that out! Oh wait 😛
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
The problem group isn't the people who complain -- those people are in fact high engagement. The problem group is the people who silently stop buying.
They're a problem if there are enough of them. Better do some market research to figure that out! Oh wait 😛
And despite two vocal minorities who've made it very clear they intend to stop buying from D&D, somehow their pocketbook seems to be doing just fine. Just because you lose a segment doesn't mean going out of your way to appease them would have been a better move.
Male medusas can actually look cool. Search up Marlos Urnayle for a good example. I find the art for them in the new MM (no offense to the creators) terrible and weird, however.
I'm not mad about it, just don't see the need for it unless wotc wants to push harder to be an online/mobile video game and abandon the ttprg model. The big question is when will they abandon physical books?
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
The problem group isn't the people who complain -- those people are in fact high engagement. The problem group is the people who silently stop buying.
They're a problem if there are enough of them. Better do some market research to figure that out! Oh wait 😛
And despite two vocal minorities who've made it very clear they intend to stop buying from D&D, somehow their pocketbook seems to be doing just fine. Just because you lose a segment doesn't mean going out of your way to appease them would have been a better move.
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
The problem group isn't the people who complain -- those people are in fact high engagement. The problem group is the people who silently stop buying.
They're a problem if there are enough of them. Better do some market research to figure that out! Oh wait 😛
And despite two vocal minorities who've made it very clear they intend to stop buying from D&D, somehow their pocketbook seems to be doing just fine. Just because you lose a segment doesn't mean going out of your way to appease them would have been a better move.
It's not the vocals they should concern themselves with, but the silent. It is the silent majority that controls the market, you just don't realize it until it's to late. Grease that squeaky wheel that should be replaced while the quiet ones rot and leave you stranded due to neglect.
They're a problem if there are enough of them. Better do some market research to figure that out! Oh wait 😛
They're a problem if they're actually representative of the silent population, or if they can effectively influence the silent population, both of which might be true but cannot easily be determined by just listening to who's loudest.
It's not the vocals they should concern themselves with, but the silent. It is the silent majority that controls the market, you just don't realize it until it's to late. Grease that squeaky wheel that should be replaced while the quiet ones rot and leave you stranded due to neglect.
It's funny how the silent majority always manages to break their silence just long enough to confirm they support the point of view of the person who invoked them, then go back to being silent. Uncanny really!
It's funny how the silent majority always manages to break their silence just long enough to confirm they support the point of view of the person who invoked them, then go back to being silent. Uncanny really!
I never made any firm assertions about what the silent population actually believes, because, well, I don't know. Typically low engagement players (for any game) prefer lower complexity, but that's only barely relevant to most points that have been discussed in this thread.
It's not the vocals they should concern themselves with, but the silent. It is the silent majority that controls the market, you just don't realize it until it's to late. Grease that squeaky wheel that should be replaced while the quiet ones rot and leave you stranded due to neglect.
It's funny how the silent majority always manages to break their silence just long enough to confirm they support the point of view of the person who invoked them, then go back to being silent. Uncanny really!
That is because it only takes a moment to swat a fly
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Well, Chains of Asmodeus does exist, but based on Tiamat, you're probably only expected to face an aspect of a divine being.
Awww, that's a little sad.
I mean, they appeared in the first MM, and the 1e DMG has that entire little adventure play out beneath the random tables where the party of four faces him down. Those meandering strips made me love him as a baddie.
TO your point, though, WotC made him a deity -- and in doing so, moved him into the place where in my worlds he simply cannot be killed (I don't do the "kill a god" storylines). I dislike that, but as we've noted, WotC gonna WotC.
A book of Friends & Foes, where they give stats for all the folks listed in the 2024 DMG Lore glossary would be nice. And would be fitting for the 50th anniversary.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
They might have some of these characters in their setting books. I feel setting books are typically where you want both faction and unique monster stat blocks as well as legendary figure npc's and dieties of those realms.
If disengaged players have a vastly different opinion from engaged players and want an opinion on the future of the game, then perhaps they should become more engaged and actually take part in the surveys they want to share an opinion on. The surveys take less than 30 minutes. If they don't care enough to bother to do that, then they don't care enough about the future of the game for WotC to need to take their opinions into consideration. Besides highly engaged players generally tend to have a more educated opinion about the game than disengaged players anyway.
If nothing else highly engaged players will, by definition, be buying more products closer to release, ergo being the more relevant market segment.
Unsurprisingly, in most cases of market research, folks who respond with negative comments get their entire segment shunted to a secondary pile, and have no direct influence on direction, only response to complaints.
since the default response is usually “say nothing”, there needs to be something of significant value in those negative responses to make them useful.
it reminds me of the “change from inside” problem around policing.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I should point out that some lower level monsters did get weaker, cause they were overtuned in 2014. Monsters of CR 5 and up are generally where most of the buffs went. The new encounter building rules also should be taken into account for battles with monsters. Monsters are generally stronger overall throughout the book.
You literally quoted the descriptions backwards. No clue how no one pointed this out.
Besides... male medusas and female satyrs... uh..
Any lesser known Chromatic, Metallic + main and lesser known 5 Gem dragons in the book?
Not that I see.
just the standard ones.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
The problem group isn't the people who complain -- those people are in fact high engagement. The problem group is the people who silently stop buying.
They're a problem if there are enough of them. Better do some market research to figure that out! Oh wait 😛
And despite two vocal minorities who've made it very clear they intend to stop buying from D&D, somehow their pocketbook seems to be doing just fine. Just because you lose a segment doesn't mean going out of your way to appease them would have been a better move.
Male medusas can actually look cool. Search up Marlos Urnayle for a good example. I find the art for them in the new MM (no offense to the creators) terrible and weird, however.
I'm not mad about it, just don't see the need for it unless wotc wants to push harder to be an online/mobile video game and abandon the ttprg model. The big question is when will they abandon physical books?
It's not the vocals they should concern themselves with, but the silent. It is the silent majority that controls the market, you just don't realize it until it's to late. Grease that squeaky wheel that should be replaced while the quiet ones rot and leave you stranded due to neglect.
They're a problem if they're actually representative of the silent population, or if they can effectively influence the silent population, both of which might be true but cannot easily be determined by just listening to who's loudest.
It's funny how the silent majority always manages to break their silence just long enough to confirm they support the point of view of the person who invoked them, then go back to being silent. Uncanny really!
I never made any firm assertions about what the silent population actually believes, because, well, I don't know. Typically low engagement players (for any game) prefer lower complexity, but that's only barely relevant to most points that have been discussed in this thread.
That is because it only takes a moment to swat a fly