Some comments in a video aren't "canon" and you are probably misinterpretting them. They were just describing the special new statblocks for special new entries in the book.
Not canon, yet. but shows what the Game Designers are thinking, and what they intend to do in the future.
What they said paraphrase because I'm not going to transcribe the video.
1: They have a Species of people from the Plain of fire the Azer - aka Fire Dwarves.
2: They wanted each of the 4 plains to have a species of people from that plain.
3: Aarakocra from air, Merfolk from water. (while a stretch, these do fit, and in the old lore Merfolk did in fact live in the plain of water)
4: Lizardfolk are now from the plain of Earth.
This is the crux of the issue, as Lizardfolk require swamps to live, there are no swamps in the plain of earth, in fact there is no open sky, no open water, no open fires in the plain of earth, as its an infinite plain of earth, with pockets of air and caves. Most of the life in the plain of Earth has a burrowing speed as they swim through the earth and stone of the plain. Some outsiders live their as well, ie very brave Dwarves who set up mining colonies and fight off the ever flowing earth to keep a pocket of air.
Lizardfolk are the absolute worst species to have "come from the plain of Earth", and I am making a stink about it before they publish a book to make that idea canon. I have no issue with a few Lizardfolk becoming shaman of earth magics, as they have a player option these days. But I do not want my swamp people to suddenly be from the Plane of Earth and ignore their entire history on Toril.
Lizardfolk are the absolute worst species to have "come from the plain of Earth", and I am making a stink about it before they publish a book to make that idea canon. I have no issue with a few Lizardfolk becoming shaman of earth magics, as they have a player option these days. But I do not want my swamp people to suddenly be from the Plane of Earth and ignore their entire history on Toril.
Then it is a good thing the book doesn’t have them come from the Plane of Earth, as many people on this thread who actually have read the book have pointed out multiple times.
This is the crux of the issue, as Lizardfolk require swamps to live, there are no swamps in the plain of earth, in fact there is no open sky, no open water, no open fires in the plain of earth, as its an infinite plain of earth, with pockets of air and caves. Most of the life in the plain of Earth has a burrowing speed as they swim through the earth and stone of the plain. Some outsiders live their as well, ie very brave Dwarves who set up mining colonies and fight off the ever flowing earth to keep a pocket of air.
That is not the description of the Elemental Plane of Earth in the 2024 DMG. That description starts with....
Elemental Plane of Earth
The Plane of Earth is a chain of mountains rising higher than any mountain range on the Material Plane. It has no sun of its own, and no air surrounds the peaks of its highest mountains. Most visitors to the plane arrive by way of vast caverns that honeycomb the mountains.
And then goes on to describe a few locations within it. It then goes on to describe the City of Jewels, the Furnaces, and the Mud Hills (which is possibly a location where you'd find swamps). That said, again, the video doesn't claim that the Lizardfolk come from the Elemental Plane, it's that they're deeply connected to the elemental plane.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Ok, where are folk getting the idea that lizardfolk are amphibians?
I think it goes all the way back to Keep on the Borderlands, where they lived in a swamp hut with an underwater entrance. As far as real animals go, a lot of lizardfolk depictions are really closer to crocodile-people, which is definitely swampy.
They didn't use Magics, had Waterbreating, and originally described as needing water for Reproduction.
In the basic and biological sense they qualified as amphibians.
Now when TSR wrote their descriptions, they were thinking Crocodilian People (also not a lizard), because Crocs can sleep underwater and hold their breath for hours. They choose to just give them waterbreathing as an easy fix.
Lorewise, they are related to the possibly extinct sarrukh people who once ruled all of Toril in an evil empire. The sarrukh were a snakelike humanoid species that was different than the naga... as they made the Naga out of Human "Interns" (ie unpaid employees). The Lizardfolk while being crocodilian in design intentions were written as possibly the last surviving members of sarrukh species who were changed to fit the swamps of Toril. And their dislike for the trappings of Civilization is from the hatred of what the sarrukh became. (Mostly implied in a very small handful of books from the 80s. as this lore was hinted at but never confirmed or codified outside of in universe speculation)
They didn't use Magics, had Waterbreating, and originally described as needing water for Reproduction.
No they didn't. Lizardman from the AD&D Monster Manual state "Lizard men are semi-aquatic; breathing air but often (35%) dwelling totally underwater and having caves which are not water filled in which they lair." It doesn't describe their reproduction there, but in Keep on the Borderlands there is a 'nest' (which does not appear to be underwater) containing eggs.
It's possible 2e lizardfolk were how you describe, but 3e, 4e, and 5e (2014) all make them semi-aquatic with the ability to hold their breath for extended period.
They didn't use Magics, had Waterbreating, and originally described as needing water for Reproduction.
No they didn't. Lizardman from the AD&D Monster Manual state "Lizard men are semi-aquatic; breathing air but often (35%) dwelling totally underwater and having caves which are not water filled in which they lair." It doesn't describe their reproduction there, but in Keep on the Borderlands there is a 'nest' (which does not appear to be underwater) containing eggs.
It's possible 2e lizardfolk were how you describe, but 3e, 4e, and 5e (2014) all make them semi-aquatic with the ability to hold their breath for extended period.
Once I'm done with my move, I'll photocopy the page I'm referencing. It's hard to do while at an airport hotel in the midst of a move from Los Angeles to Scotland. With all my books in a shipping container heading to Scotland. The lore I speak of was printed in the 70s or early 80s, and is not online. Wikis will be of no use here.
--
Also for technical definitions Semi-Aquatic is one of the definitions of amphibious, but what I'm referring to was their accidental published rules that also made them amphibians the biological definition.
I've also been looking for this water-breathing trait you keep bringing up. It's not in:
AD&D First Edition Monster Manual, where the Lizard Man entry is on page 62. Specifically mentions they breathe air.
AD&D 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual, "Lizard Man" page 227. No mention of water-breathing here either,.
D&D 3rd Edition Monster Manual, "Lizardfolk", page 128, says they can hold their breath twice as long as a human.
D&D 3.5 Edition Monster Manual, "Lizardfolk", page 169 introduces the "Hold Breath" trait, which allows a Lizardfolk to hold its breath for a number of rounds equl to four times its Constitution score before it begins drowning.
D&D 4th Edition Monster Manual, "Lizardfolk", page 178 says "They can hold their breath for up to 10 minutes without trouble"
And then there's the 2014 5th Edition basic Rules Lizardfolk Entry, which also uses a "Hold Breath" trait that lets them hold their breath for up to an hour. No mention of water-breathing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Once I'm done with my move, I'll photocopy the page I'm referencing. It's hard to do while at an airport hotel in the midst of a move from Los Angeles to Scotland. With all my books in a shipping container heading to Scotland. The lore I speak of was printed in the 70s or early 80s, and is not online. Wikis will be of no use here.
Random articles in a 'zine that have been consistently ignored for fifty years are irrelevant. There was a period (it's described in AD&D 2e) where Lizardfolk needed to wet their entire body daily or eventually die, which is kind of odd and seems to have been quietly dropped in 3e, but other than that they've been consistently treated as semi-aquatic with breath holding and shelled eggs that are laid above water, which is solidly crocodile-like.
Not canon, yet. but shows what the Game Designers are thinking, and what they intend to do in the future.
1: They have a Species of people from the Plain of fire the Azer - aka Fire Dwarves.
2: They wanted each of the 4 plains to have a species of people from that plain.
3: Aarakocra from air, Merfolk from water. (while a stretch, these do fit, and in the old lore Merfolk did in fact live in the plain of water)
4: Lizardfolk are now from the plain of Earth.
This is neither what the book says NOR what the video says. You don't have to be "from that plane" to be an elemental.
Crawford defines elementals in the video like this:
"{Elementals are} monsters that are made of the very element that is at the heart of one of those planes, or are in some way suffused by it. And so in this category you not only find creatures like the fire elemental which is just sapient fire, but you also find the different types of genies, mephits, the water weird, and the strange xorn. And then we also, among the returning elementals we also have some creatures who used to be in another category that have been recategorized in what we feel is they always belonged in, and that is the elemental category. We specifically were on the lookout for, sort of, humanoid-like elemental folk. In the 2014 Monster Manual, we had the Azer for fire...and we were like, all right, but who are our air folk, earth folk and water folk. And we realized they were already in the Monster Manual, just in a different category...and so we now have this nice range of people you can meet even in the Material Plane who are deeply connected to one of the elemental planes."
Per the bolded definitions above, what made these creatures elementals is deep connection, suffusion, or composition. Originating / being FROM those planes was not mentioned at all. In fact, all four of these ex-humanoids could be seen as creatures that were something else before becoming suffused with / composed of their respective element, either by ending up there, or simply via some kind of unique magical exposure.
What this means is that all the Lizardfolk history/lore/whatever that you and others are lamenting the destruction of can in fact still stay intact. Some subset of lizardfolk (or something that started as somethig else and eventually became a lizardfolk, chicken and egg) at some point got infused with Earth, just like some subset of Aarakocra at some point got infused with Air, and that is what gave us the statblocks we have in the MM today. The book is clear that not all lizardfolk did this, and the video is clear that it's the connection that matters, not the origin. Done.
Interestingly, there's a lizardman PC in Quag Keep (the very first D&D novel, from 1978), making it probably the very first published example of taking a 'monster' type and turning it to a PC.
They didn't use Magics, had Waterbreating, and originally described as needing water for Reproduction.
No they didn't. Lizardman from the AD&D Monster Manual state "Lizard men are semi-aquatic; breathing air but often (35%) dwelling totally underwater and having caves which are not water filled in which they lair." It doesn't describe their reproduction there, but in Keep on the Borderlands there is a 'nest' (which does not appear to be underwater) containing eggs.
It's possible 2e lizardfolk were how you describe, but 3e, 4e, and 5e (2014) all make them semi-aquatic with the ability to hold their breath for extended period.
Nope, 2E Lizardfolk were based on generic, semi-aquatic lizards, with variants that were based on geckos, iguanas, monitor lizards, and crocodiles showing up in supplement books and Dragon Magazine.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
AD&D had two monster manuals, the first had Lizard Men, the second had MuckDweller which was a variant LizardFolk that was swamp and water heavy.
That it possibly?
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
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Not canon, yet. but shows what the Game Designers are thinking, and what they intend to do in the future.
What they said paraphrase because I'm not going to transcribe the video.
1: They have a Species of people from the Plain of fire the Azer - aka Fire Dwarves.
2: They wanted each of the 4 plains to have a species of people from that plain.
3: Aarakocra from air, Merfolk from water. (while a stretch, these do fit, and in the old lore Merfolk did in fact live in the plain of water)
4: Lizardfolk are now from the plain of Earth.
This is the crux of the issue, as Lizardfolk require swamps to live, there are no swamps in the plain of earth, in fact there is no open sky, no open water, no open fires in the plain of earth, as its an infinite plain of earth, with pockets of air and caves. Most of the life in the plain of Earth has a burrowing speed as they swim through the earth and stone of the plain. Some outsiders live their as well, ie very brave Dwarves who set up mining colonies and fight off the ever flowing earth to keep a pocket of air.
Lizardfolk are the absolute worst species to have "come from the plain of Earth", and I am making a stink about it before they publish a book to make that idea canon. I have no issue with a few Lizardfolk becoming shaman of earth magics, as they have a player option these days. But I do not want my swamp people to suddenly be from the Plane of Earth and ignore their entire history on Toril.
Then it is a good thing the book doesn’t have them come from the Plane of Earth, as many people on this thread who actually have read the book have pointed out multiple times.
That is not the description of the Elemental Plane of Earth in the 2024 DMG. That description starts with....
And then goes on to describe a few locations within it. It then goes on to describe the City of Jewels, the Furnaces, and the Mud Hills (which is possibly a location where you'd find swamps). That said, again, the video doesn't claim that the Lizardfolk come from the Elemental Plane, it's that they're deeply connected to the elemental plane.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
They didn't use Magics, had Waterbreating, and originally described as needing water for Reproduction.
In the basic and biological sense they qualified as amphibians.
Now when TSR wrote their descriptions, they were thinking Crocodilian People (also not a lizard), because Crocs can sleep underwater and hold their breath for hours. They choose to just give them waterbreathing as an easy fix.
Lorewise, they are related to the possibly extinct sarrukh people who once ruled all of Toril in an evil empire. The sarrukh were a snakelike humanoid species that was different than the naga... as they made the Naga out of Human "Interns" (ie unpaid employees). The Lizardfolk while being crocodilian in design intentions were written as possibly the last surviving members of sarrukh species who were changed to fit the swamps of Toril. And their dislike for the trappings of Civilization is from the hatred of what the sarrukh became. (Mostly implied in a very small handful of books from the 80s. as this lore was hinted at but never confirmed or codified outside of in universe speculation)
No they didn't. Lizardman from the AD&D Monster Manual state "Lizard men are semi-aquatic; breathing air but often (35%) dwelling totally underwater and having caves which are not water filled in which they lair." It doesn't describe their reproduction there, but in Keep on the Borderlands there is a 'nest' (which does not appear to be underwater) containing eggs.
It's possible 2e lizardfolk were how you describe, but 3e, 4e, and 5e (2014) all make them semi-aquatic with the ability to hold their breath for extended period.
Once I'm done with my move, I'll photocopy the page I'm referencing. It's hard to do while at an airport hotel in the midst of a move from Los Angeles to Scotland. With all my books in a shipping container heading to Scotland. The lore I speak of was printed in the 70s or early 80s, and is not online. Wikis will be of no use here.
--
Also for technical definitions Semi-Aquatic is one of the definitions of amphibious, but what I'm referring to was their accidental published rules that also made them amphibians the biological definition.
I've also been looking for this water-breathing trait you keep bringing up. It's not in:
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Random articles in a 'zine that have been consistently ignored for fifty years are irrelevant. There was a period (it's described in AD&D 2e) where Lizardfolk needed to wet their entire body daily or eventually die, which is kind of odd and seems to have been quietly dropped in 3e, but other than that they've been consistently treated as semi-aquatic with breath holding and shelled eggs that are laid above water, which is solidly crocodile-like.
This is neither what the book says NOR what the video says. You don't have to be "from that plane" to be an elemental.
Crawford defines elementals in the video like this:
"{Elementals are} monsters that are made of the very element that is at the heart of one of those planes, or are in some way suffused by it. And so in this category you not only find creatures like the fire elemental which is just sapient fire, but you also find the different types of genies, mephits, the water weird, and the strange xorn. And then we also, among the returning elementals we also have some creatures who used to be in another category that have been recategorized in what we feel is they always belonged in, and that is the elemental category. We specifically were on the lookout for, sort of, humanoid-like elemental folk. In the 2014 Monster Manual, we had the Azer for fire...and we were like, all right, but who are our air folk, earth folk and water folk. And we realized they were already in the Monster Manual, just in a different category...and so we now have this nice range of people you can meet even in the Material Plane who are deeply connected to one of the elemental planes."
Per the bolded definitions above, what made these creatures elementals is deep connection, suffusion, or composition. Originating / being FROM those planes was not mentioned at all. In fact, all four of these ex-humanoids could be seen as creatures that were something else before becoming suffused with / composed of their respective element, either by ending up there, or simply via some kind of unique magical exposure.
What this means is that all the Lizardfolk history/lore/whatever that you and others are lamenting the destruction of can in fact still stay intact. Some subset of lizardfolk (or something that started as somethig else and eventually became a lizardfolk, chicken and egg) at some point got infused with Earth, just like some subset of Aarakocra at some point got infused with Air, and that is what gave us the statblocks we have in the MM today. The book is clear that not all lizardfolk did this, and the video is clear that it's the connection that matters, not the origin. Done.
Interestingly, there's a lizardman PC in Quag Keep (the very first D&D novel, from 1978), making it probably the very first published example of taking a 'monster' type and turning it to a PC.
Nope, 2E Lizardfolk were based on generic, semi-aquatic lizards, with variants that were based on geckos, iguanas, monitor lizards, and crocodiles showing up in supplement books and Dragon Magazine.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
AD&D had two monster manuals, the first had Lizard Men, the second had MuckDweller which was a variant LizardFolk that was swamp and water heavy.
That it possibly?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.