Hello all, second time DM and I am homebrewing this entire world/story.
I asked my players for their backstories before session zero and all of them would fit beautifully into this campaign I am designing. One of my players is a shadow magic sorcerer whom was gifted his abilities by shadows in an abandoned temple. He also has crafted his own version of Peter Pans shadow, where it is animated and can move on its own.
I want to tie in his shadow magic with the bbeg of the campaign, maybe make it to where the bbeg has shadow agents that gave the players character his magic (obviously player does not know it would come from the bbeg). I have drawn up some encounters where the other shadows are trying to "take his shadow away" and a final encounter where the group enters the bbegs temple and the players shadow separates from him and they fight him as a mini boss.
I have asked all my players if I had permission to fit their backstories into the world/have some creativity on it, they all said yes. I usually would keep some of these ideas to myself but with this being such a big part of this specific players character, should I talk to him on the side about it? Or have it be a surprise to him and the whole group when the mini boss encounter happens? I do not want to over step and ruin his character by doing this or make him mad.
I would wait and see based on how the character RPs whether that would be a good idea. For example, in the campaign I'm DMing, (my players don't read this)
the party killed an npc and they were all saying stuff like "no way that's all", and so I played into their expections and resurrected the npc as a revenant.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
Hello all, second time DM and I am homebrewing this entire world/story.
I asked my players for their backstories before session zero and all of them would fit beautifully into this campaign I am designing. One of my players is a shadow magic sorcerer whom was gifted his abilities by shadows in an abandoned temple. He also has crafted his own version of Peter Pans shadow, where it is animated and can move on its own.
I want to tie in his shadow magic with the bbeg of the campaign, maybe make it to where the bbeg has shadow agents that gave the players character his magic (obviously player does not know it would come from the bbeg). I have drawn up some encounters where the other shadows are trying to "take his shadow away" and a final encounter where the group enters the bbegs temple and the players shadow separates from him and they fight him as a mini boss.
I have asked all my players if I had permission to fit their backstories into the world/have some creativity on it, they all said yes. I usually would keep some of these ideas to myself but with this being such a big part of this specific players character, should I talk to him on the side about it? Or have it be a surprise to him and the whole group when the mini boss encounter happens? I do not want to over step and ruin his character by doing this or make him mad.
Any thoughts?
So much to take in there.
But I want to see if I have this correct. You have already, or are crafting a FINAL encounter of an campaign that has not started, and you are building it in such a way that a particular PC has plot armour to ensure that PC makes it to the final encounter. Is that accurate?
If that is accurate, I have questions:
1. What happens if the PC actually dies in game?
2. What happens if the player gets bored with that PC and wants to switch PC's?
3. What happens if RL intervenes and that player (and PC) leave your game?
I have to agree with justafarmer and jurmondur. It’s very, very risky to tie a PC directly to the plot, or have anything hinge on one character for the reasons above. If, for any reason, the character is no longer in the party, it blows a huge hole in your plot.
You can certainly link the two. Just make sure to give yourself an out. Or make the link peripheral to the story, so if it gets cut off, you can keep things moving.
I didn't read it as being central to the campaign at all. The shadow would be a miniboss. To my mind, that would make it very easy to excise and replace with a different one if it no longer makes sense (the character is dead, no longer involved the story, ends up that storyline gets resolved too early, etc). I'd never make the overarching plot dependent on any one PC, but how I understood it, it seems fine.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Its not a final encounter, its just going to be a little mini boss of sorts and can put some more puzzle pieces together with the bbeg. The PC has zero plot armor (none of my players do, I made it very clear that if they die for good they would make a new one depending on circumstance).
1. Then they die and they make a new character, all my players understand this. I dont activley try to target anyone to kill them but who knows what will happen in combat :)
2. They can switch PCs and this little side quest gets revised. I made it to where this little encounter/mini plotline can be scraped or changed just in case they do anything different
3. They leave and point 2 comes back into play!
This is a compleyely optional side story that they may not even get to! I just am worried about if they do end up killing the PCs shadow (the shadow would turn into a mini boss if they went to a specific temple) that the player wont end up liking his character a few sessions later on. I also dont want to make it seem like the PC is "main character" but want to tie in his backstory with the bbeg. His backstory really lined up with how the bbeg is designed and I wanted to acknowledge that by putting something in the story.
Sorry if this is confusing/not making sense. Its my first homebrew world that ive been working on for a few years and I want to try and give my players the best experience
Yes thats exactly how I was wanting to play it out! I know my og post may have been confusing though. I always personally dont enjoy campaigns where one PC is the "main character" or when the PCs backstories are basically useless. I want to tie in everyones backstory to something in the campaign, whether it be related to bbeg or a side plot that ends up helping them out in the final act. I think it really helps players get into their characters more!
The shadow would 100% be an optional mini boss that can be taken away or revised at any point. The shadow agents were going to be a thing no matter what, it just happened that my player did a shadow magic sorcerer and his backstory fit beautifully with this plot hook
Hello all, second time DM and I am homebrewing this entire world/story.
I asked my players for their backstories before session zero and all of them would fit beautifully into this campaign I am designing. One of my players is a shadow magic sorcerer whom was gifted his abilities by shadows in an abandoned temple. He also has crafted his own version of Peter Pans shadow, where it is animated and can move on its own.
I want to tie in his shadow magic with the bbeg of the campaign, maybe make it to where the bbeg has shadow agents that gave the players character his magic (obviously player does not know it would come from the bbeg). I have drawn up some encounters where the other shadows are trying to "take his shadow away" and a final encounter where the group enters the bbegs temple and the players shadow separates from him and they fight him as a mini boss.
I have asked all my players if I had permission to fit their backstories into the world/have some creativity on it, they all said yes. I usually would keep some of these ideas to myself but with this being such a big part of this specific players character, should I talk to him on the side about it? Or have it be a surprise to him and the whole group when the mini boss encounter happens? I do not want to over step and ruin his character by doing this or make him mad.
Any thoughts?
Backstories aren't required in 2024. In fact it's been replaced with Character Origins.
Hello all, second time DM and I am homebrewing this entire world/story.
I asked my players for their backstories before session zero and all of them would fit beautifully into this campaign I am designing. One of my players is a shadow magic sorcerer whom was gifted his abilities by shadows in an abandoned temple. He also has crafted his own version of Peter Pans shadow, where it is animated and can move on its own.
I want to tie in his shadow magic with the bbeg of the campaign, maybe make it to where the bbeg has shadow agents that gave the players character his magic (obviously player does not know it would come from the bbeg). I have drawn up some encounters where the other shadows are trying to "take his shadow away" and a final encounter where the group enters the bbegs temple and the players shadow separates from him and they fight him as a mini boss.
I have asked all my players if I had permission to fit their backstories into the world/have some creativity on it, they all said yes. I usually would keep some of these ideas to myself but with this being such a big part of this specific players character, should I talk to him on the side about it? Or have it be a surprise to him and the whole group when the mini boss encounter happens? I do not want to over step and ruin his character by doing this or make him mad.
Any thoughts?
Backstories aren't required in 2024. In fact it's been replaced with Character Origins.
and...?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
I love the idea of you using your player's characters' backgrounds. I think it's important for DMs to consider this as much as possible. Make sure to incorporate all the players' goals though. And let the group decide which player quests to pursue (if any) and in what order. I guess you can't really do that with this idea since it's secret, but make sure to entertain other player goals too, perhaps a few before this player's reveal, so they are not perceived as a favorite or a target.
But if I was a player that had a cool ability that I relied upon, I'd be mad if it was unexpectedly taken away from me. One idea might be to do what you propose and take it away, but come up with a way now to replace it soon after (and unexpectedly) with something of equal strength or perhaps even greater power. Let the player experience the stages of loss, but then give them an unexpected win as well. Be careful not to let it seem like you are just responding to their denial (frustration), anger, bargaining, depression, and perhaps acceptance (resignation). Make sure they know after the fact it was your plan all along, so they don't just feel like you were out to get them or just giving them some buff out of pity. Remember the rule of cool and the reasons for playing is to let everyone have fun.
Maybe they gain something by losing the shadow that they didn't know about. Like the shadow was actually preventing them from acquiring some other power or ability. Good luck. Based on the fact you even asked this question, it sounds like you have the right spirit in mind.
Hello all, second time DM and I am homebrewing this entire world/story.
I asked my players for their backstories before session zero and all of them would fit beautifully into this campaign I am designing. One of my players is a shadow magic sorcerer whom was gifted his abilities by shadows in an abandoned temple. He also has crafted his own version of Peter Pans shadow, where it is animated and can move on its own.
I want to tie in his shadow magic with the bbeg of the campaign, maybe make it to where the bbeg has shadow agents that gave the players character his magic (obviously player does not know it would come from the bbeg). I have drawn up some encounters where the other shadows are trying to "take his shadow away" and a final encounter where the group enters the bbegs temple and the players shadow separates from him and they fight him as a mini boss.
I have asked all my players if I had permission to fit their backstories into the world/have some creativity on it, they all said yes. I usually would keep some of these ideas to myself but with this being such a big part of this specific players character, should I talk to him on the side about it? Or have it be a surprise to him and the whole group when the mini boss encounter happens? I do not want to over step and ruin his character by doing this or make him mad.
Any thoughts?
Backstories aren't required in 2024. In fact it's been replaced with Character Origins.
If you’re wanting to be pedantic backstories have never been required, we could all be playing totally blank slates, but that sounds like a very boring way to play and not one most of us use including the DM who started the thread
Hello all, second time DM and I am homebrewing this entire world/story.
I asked my players for their backstories before session zero and all of them would fit beautifully into this campaign I am designing. One of my players is a shadow magic sorcerer whom was gifted his abilities by shadows in an abandoned temple. He also has crafted his own version of Peter Pans shadow, where it is animated and can move on its own.
I want to tie in his shadow magic with the bbeg of the campaign, maybe make it to where the bbeg has shadow agents that gave the players character his magic (obviously player does not know it would come from the bbeg). I have drawn up some encounters where the other shadows are trying to "take his shadow away" and a final encounter where the group enters the bbegs temple and the players shadow separates from him and they fight him as a mini boss.
I have asked all my players if I had permission to fit their backstories into the world/have some creativity on it, they all said yes. I usually would keep some of these ideas to myself but with this being such a big part of this specific players character, should I talk to him on the side about it? Or have it be a surprise to him and the whole group when the mini boss encounter happens? I do not want to over step and ruin his character by doing this or make him mad.
Any thoughts?
I would wait and see based on how the character RPs whether that would be a good idea. For example, in the campaign I'm DMing, (my players don't read this)
the party killed an npc and they were all saying stuff like "no way that's all", and so I played into their expections and resurrected the npc as a revenant.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
So much to take in there.
But I want to see if I have this correct. You have already, or are crafting a FINAL encounter of an campaign that has not started, and you are building it in such a way that a particular PC has plot armour to ensure that PC makes it to the final encounter. Is that accurate?
If that is accurate, I have questions:
1. What happens if the PC actually dies in game?
2. What happens if the player gets bored with that PC and wants to switch PC's?
3. What happens if RL intervenes and that player (and PC) leave your game?
I have to agree with justafarmer and jurmondur. It’s very, very risky to tie a PC directly to the plot, or have anything hinge on one character for the reasons above. If, for any reason, the character is no longer in the party, it blows a huge hole in your plot.
You can certainly link the two. Just make sure to give yourself an out. Or make the link peripheral to the story, so if it gets cut off, you can keep things moving.
I didn't read it as being central to the campaign at all. The shadow would be a miniboss. To my mind, that would make it very easy to excise and replace with a different one if it no longer makes sense (the character is dead, no longer involved the story, ends up that storyline gets resolved too early, etc). I'd never make the overarching plot dependent on any one PC, but how I understood it, it seems fine.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Its not a final encounter, its just going to be a little mini boss of sorts and can put some more puzzle pieces together with the bbeg. The PC has zero plot armor (none of my players do, I made it very clear that if they die for good they would make a new one depending on circumstance).
1. Then they die and they make a new character, all my players understand this. I dont activley try to target anyone to kill them but who knows what will happen in combat :)
2. They can switch PCs and this little side quest gets revised. I made it to where this little encounter/mini plotline can be scraped or changed just in case they do anything different
3. They leave and point 2 comes back into play!
This is a compleyely optional side story that they may not even get to! I just am worried about if they do end up killing the PCs shadow (the shadow would turn into a mini boss if they went to a specific temple) that the player wont end up liking his character a few sessions later on. I also dont want to make it seem like the PC is "main character" but want to tie in his backstory with the bbeg. His backstory really lined up with how the bbeg is designed and I wanted to acknowledge that by putting something in the story.
Sorry if this is confusing/not making sense. Its my first homebrew world that ive been working on for a few years and I want to try and give my players the best experience
Yes thats exactly how I was wanting to play it out! I know my og post may have been confusing though. I always personally dont enjoy campaigns where one PC is the "main character" or when the PCs backstories are basically useless. I want to tie in everyones backstory to something in the campaign, whether it be related to bbeg or a side plot that ends up helping them out in the final act. I think it really helps players get into their characters more!
The shadow would 100% be an optional mini boss that can be taken away or revised at any point. The shadow agents were going to be a thing no matter what, it just happened that my player did a shadow magic sorcerer and his backstory fit beautifully with this plot hook
Backstories aren't required in 2024. In fact it's been replaced with Character Origins.
and...?
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I love the idea of you using your player's characters' backgrounds. I think it's important for DMs to consider this as much as possible. Make sure to incorporate all the players' goals though. And let the group decide which player quests to pursue (if any) and in what order. I guess you can't really do that with this idea since it's secret, but make sure to entertain other player goals too, perhaps a few before this player's reveal, so they are not perceived as a favorite or a target.
But if I was a player that had a cool ability that I relied upon, I'd be mad if it was unexpectedly taken away from me. One idea might be to do what you propose and take it away, but come up with a way now to replace it soon after (and unexpectedly) with something of equal strength or perhaps even greater power. Let the player experience the stages of loss, but then give them an unexpected win as well. Be careful not to let it seem like you are just responding to their denial (frustration), anger, bargaining, depression, and perhaps acceptance (resignation). Make sure they know after the fact it was your plan all along, so they don't just feel like you were out to get them or just giving them some buff out of pity. Remember the rule of cool and the reasons for playing is to let everyone have fun.
Maybe they gain something by losing the shadow that they didn't know about. Like the shadow was actually preventing them from acquiring some other power or ability. Good luck. Based on the fact you even asked this question, it sounds like you have the right spirit in mind.
If you’re wanting to be pedantic backstories have never been required, we could all be playing totally blank slates, but that sounds like a very boring way to play and not one most of us use including the DM who started the thread