Disadvantage is good, but not perfect. At low levels, that will roughly halve the hit rate against squishy wizards, but at higher levels, the wizard will probably be hit regardless.
There's a saving throw against it.
Once the enemies are engaged with the squishy wizard, the wizard either needs to draw an opportunity attack, or waste their action if they want to move away.
Unless the enemy moves closer to them, they can't enter melee with them for another turn (barring the use speed buffs).
Many enemies have ranged attacks.
One ability does not (often) make a tank. Especially one with as many drawbacks as this one.
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
The warlock has many more tools to get a wizard out of melee with a dangerous foe than a barbarian does.
Warlocks are quite solid at range, so "entering melee" after teleporting out is unnecessary.
Warlocks have ways to deal with range too.
And lastly, nobody is saying "one ability makes a tank." You asked about an entire class/subclass.
You are literally claiming that the archfey warlock is a better tank than a barbarian based on one ability.
"Many more tools" and "ways to deal with range" = "one ability?"
If your goal is tanking as in protecting the squishies, it's probably the same as in 2014 -- druid. You have a ton of spells for limiting mobility, heals, and decent selection of wall spells to deal with range. Though honorable mention to a battle master using menacing attack with a ranged weapon.
Disadvantage is good, but not perfect. At low levels, that will roughly halve the hit rate against squishy wizards, but at higher levels, the wizard will probably be hit regardless.
There's a saving throw against it.
Once the enemies are engaged with the squishy wizard, the wizard either needs to draw an opportunity attack, or waste their action if they want to move away.
Unless the enemy moves closer to them, they can't enter melee with them for another turn (barring the use speed buffs).
Many enemies have ranged attacks.
One ability does not (often) make a tank. Especially one with as many drawbacks as this one.
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
The warlock has many more tools to get a wizard out of melee with a dangerous foe than a barbarian does.
Warlocks are quite solid at range, so "entering melee" after teleporting out is unnecessary.
Warlocks have ways to deal with range too.
And lastly, nobody is saying "one ability makes a tank." You asked about an entire class/subclass.
You are literally claiming that the archfey warlock is a better tank than a barbarian based on one ability.
"Many more tools" and "ways to deal with range" = "one ability?"
I'll bite. What are said tools and ways? Also, how are you supposed to be a tank at range?
World Tree Barbarian can pull and hold an enemy at the start of their turn, and is much better at enduring the aggro. No, Barbarians are not universally MMO style tanks, but they’re objectively better at taking hits than Warlocks and they’ve got a subclass that’s at least as good for pulling aggro as a Feylock.
I'll bite. What are said tools and ways? Also, how are you supposed to be a tank at range?
You said "disadvantage is good but not perfect." The Archfey Warlock has multiple ways to impose disadvantage on enemies trying to hit other targets in the party - Taunting Step is the easiest as you need neither your pact slots nor concentration to use it, but they also have area spells like Fear, Storm of Radiance, Spray of Cards, Hunger of Hadar, and Wall of Light. And in cases where the monster already has disadvantage, they have other effects that stack on top of it like Bane, Synaptic Static, as well as effects that shut down attacks entirely like Forcecage, Hold Person, and Psychic Scream.
The Barbarian meanwhile merely has to hope that enemies target them over their allies. They could grapple one target, maybe two if they want to give up most of their offensive capability, and that's it. They're durable to be sure, but that just helps you survive if enemies target you, it does nothing to actually make that happen.
World Tree Barbarian can pull and hold an enemy at the start of their turn, and is much better at enduring the aggro. No, Barbarians are not universally MMO style tanks, but they’re objectively better at taking hits than Warlocks and they’ve got a subclass that’s at least as good for pulling aggro as a Feylock.
Wow, a whole enemy, hold my beer.
As I said at the start of this, unless we can agree on a definition for the "tank" terminology/playstyle, we're just going to end up talking past each other even more.
Disadvantage is good, but not perfect. At low levels, that will roughly halve the hit rate against squishy wizards, but at higher levels, the wizard will probably be hit regardless.
There's a saving throw against it.
Once the enemies are engaged with the squishy wizard, the wizard either needs to draw an opportunity attack, or waste their action if they want to move away.
Unless the enemy moves closer to them, they can't enter melee with them for another turn (barring the use speed buffs).
Many enemies have ranged attacks.
One ability does not (often) make a tank. Especially one with as many drawbacks as this one.
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
The warlock has many more tools to get a wizard out of melee with a dangerous foe than a barbarian does.
Warlocks are quite solid at range, so "entering melee" after teleporting out is unnecessary.
Warlocks have ways to deal with range too.
And lastly, nobody is saying "one ability makes a tank." You asked about an entire class/subclass.
You are literally claiming that the archfey warlock is a better tank than a barbarian based on one ability.
I just pointed out one ability from the 2024 archfey warlock that makes it a better tank than any class that does not have a taunt ability. Within Warlocks there are several abilities that when used for the purpose of tanking make them superb tanks.
However in this discussion, when I said Warlocks can do all roles better, my roommate and partner reminded me there is one often played seldom talked about role that Warlocks can do but are subpar at. Skill Monkey. That would be a Rogue and Bard's battle.
So I do stand corrected on one role, however if I was going to build a tank, I would do 1st level fighter, and then go full Archfey warlock. Technically Fighter has an unofficial role as the best one level dip. Which when Psion comes out, I would recommend in any Psion build as the level 20 ability is subpar IMO.
At the same time, I don't see much difference here between this and an Enchanter/Diviner Wizard or an Aberrant Sorcerer. (I'd much rather they brought back the previous Mystic, just with the damage and number of abilities scaled WAY back.)
Get rid of all the gross shapeshifting body powers. Focus just on Mind Control, Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Psi Warping as your four main subclasses.
Use something similar to Warlock design with spells and invocations. Half of their abilities should be at-will reliable psychic tricks that define their class/subclass. The other half can be the spell-like abilities (using spellcasting mechanics, even if they're thematically different). No V/M/S components, but a very limited number of things you could do as they're almost all Concentration and all exist within a very narrow theme or niche.
Get rid of all the gross shapeshifting body powers. Focus just on Mind Control, Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Psi Warping as your four main subclasses.
IMO the "gross shapeshifting body powers" is one of the unique selling points of this class that really makes it stand out and I think it'd be a shame if they scraped it as an option
I suggest the optional rule the psionic spell slots could be spent to load a pool of psionic power points. This shouldn't break the balance about possible munchkins saving power points to cast the post powerful attacks.
Get rid of all the gross shapeshifting body powers. Focus just on Mind Control, Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Psi Warping as your four main subclasses.
IMO the "gross shapeshifting body powers" is one of the unique selling points of this class that really makes it stand out and I think it'd be a shame if they scraped it as an option
Eh, it's not really the first thing most people think of when they think "psychic powers", and practically speaking the two melee weapons aren't exactly an enticing prospect on a d6 hit die and no armor chassis. I'd have saved that concept for a separate book like they did the Frankenstein Artificer.
Having a gish option built in immediately distinguishes Psion from Sorcerer, which I gathered was something the detractors wanted. And a subclass that embodies "mind over matter" makes perfect sense too.
I do agree that Metamorph is sorely lacking in defensive options.
I could get behind Gish as a concept, but body distortion is just a very niche aesthetic imo.
Ok, but ... again, isn't it absolutely unsuited for gishing? Again, maybe I'm just not seeing it, but it looks to me like if the psion enters melee - it's because of an intense and acute death wish. It's a one way ticket, it's going to die, and do so fast.
Or am I missing some essential element of it's ability to not just splatter on impact?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I could get behind Gish as a concept, but body distortion is just a very niche aesthetic imo.
Ok, but ... again, isn't it absolutely unsuited for gishing? Again, maybe I'm just not seeing it, but it looks to me like if the psion enters melee - it's because of an intense and acute death wish. It's a one way ticket, it's going to die, and do so fast.
Or am I missing some essential element of it's ability to not just splatter on impact?
I wasn't saying the current setup is in a good place for it, but if Wizards can Gish there's no fundamental reason why there can't be a subclass to support this if Psion makes it, and the post I replied to already acknowledged that the subclass needed better defense.
Ok, but ... again, isn't it absolutely unsuited for gishing? Again, maybe I'm just not seeing it, but it looks to me like if the psion enters melee - it's because of an intense and acute death wish. It's a one way ticket, it's going to die, and do so fast.
Or am I missing some essential element of it's ability to not just splatter on impact?
If you take biofeedback and psionic backlash you won't splatter instantly, but they don't scale super well and there's not much about the metamorph itself (they do have access to bonus action cure wound) to help.
You can also just stay at range with the Viscera Launcher. But again, I'm in favor of the Metamorph having stronger defenses since the devs seem to want it in melee.
I won't say no one because I'm sure there's a niche interest in it, but I expect the vast majority of people looking to weapon attack on a caster aren't looking to use ranged for it. Just isn't a substantially different experience from using most of the cantrips.
I won't say no one because I'm sure there's a niche interest in it, but I expect the vast majority of people looking to weapon attack on a caster aren't looking to use ranged for it. Just isn't a substantially different experience from using most of the cantrips.
It's why I recommended Shield be accessible to all Psions.
The one subclass can keep the bonus to Shield.
Also, I pushed for the Metamorph Spell List to include Smites to incentivize usage of the weapon.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
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"Many more tools" and "ways to deal with range" = "one ability?"
If your goal is tanking as in protecting the squishies, it's probably the same as in 2014 -- druid. You have a ton of spells for limiting mobility, heals, and decent selection of wall spells to deal with range. Though honorable mention to a battle master using menacing attack with a ranged weapon.
I'll bite. What are said tools and ways? Also, how are you supposed to be a tank at range?
World Tree Barbarian can pull and hold an enemy at the start of their turn, and is much better at enduring the aggro. No, Barbarians are not universally MMO style tanks, but they’re objectively better at taking hits than Warlocks and they’ve got a subclass that’s at least as good for pulling aggro as a Feylock.
You said "disadvantage is good but not perfect." The Archfey Warlock has multiple ways to impose disadvantage on enemies trying to hit other targets in the party - Taunting Step is the easiest as you need neither your pact slots nor concentration to use it, but they also have area spells like Fear, Storm of Radiance, Spray of Cards, Hunger of Hadar, and Wall of Light. And in cases where the monster already has disadvantage, they have other effects that stack on top of it like Bane, Synaptic Static, as well as effects that shut down attacks entirely like Forcecage, Hold Person, and Psychic Scream.
The Barbarian meanwhile merely has to hope that enemies target them over their allies. They could grapple one target, maybe two if they want to give up most of their offensive capability, and that's it. They're durable to be sure, but that just helps you survive if enemies target you, it does nothing to actually make that happen.
Wow, a whole enemy, hold my beer.
As I said at the start of this, unless we can agree on a definition for the "tank" terminology/playstyle, we're just going to end up talking past each other even more.
And more to the point we’re derailing the thread.
As soon as I saw the "Metamorph" subclasses "Organic Weapons" feature, I immediately thought of a d&d campaign based on Parasyte: The Maxim
I just pointed out one ability from the 2024 archfey warlock that makes it a better tank than any class that does not have a taunt ability. Within Warlocks there are several abilities that when used for the purpose of tanking make them superb tanks.
However in this discussion, when I said Warlocks can do all roles better, my roommate and partner reminded me there is one often played seldom talked about role that Warlocks can do but are subpar at. Skill Monkey. That would be a Rogue and Bard's battle.
So I do stand corrected on one role, however if I was going to build a tank, I would do 1st level fighter, and then go full Archfey warlock. Technically Fighter has an unofficial role as the best one level dip. Which when Psion comes out, I would recommend in any Psion build as the level 20 ability is subpar IMO.
I'm so, *SO* glad they're giving this another go.
At the same time, I don't see much difference here between this and an Enchanter/Diviner Wizard or an Aberrant Sorcerer. (I'd much rather they brought back the previous Mystic, just with the damage and number of abilities scaled WAY back.)
Get rid of all the gross shapeshifting body powers. Focus just on Mind Control, Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Psi Warping as your four main subclasses.
Use something similar to Warlock design with spells and invocations. Half of their abilities should be at-will reliable psychic tricks that define their class/subclass. The other half can be the spell-like abilities (using spellcasting mechanics, even if they're thematically different). No V/M/S components, but a very limited number of things you could do as they're almost all Concentration and all exist within a very narrow theme or niche.
IMO the "gross shapeshifting body powers" is one of the unique selling points of this class that really makes it stand out and I think it'd be a shame if they scraped it as an option
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I suggest the optional rule the psionic spell slots could be spent to load a pool of psionic power points. This shouldn't break the balance about possible munchkins saving power points to cast the post powerful attacks.
Eh, it's not really the first thing most people think of when they think "psychic powers", and practically speaking the two melee weapons aren't exactly an enticing prospect on a d6 hit die and no armor chassis. I'd have saved that concept for a separate book like they did the Frankenstein Artificer.
Having a gish option built in immediately distinguishes Psion from Sorcerer, which I gathered was something the detractors wanted. And a subclass that embodies "mind over matter" makes perfect sense too.
I do agree that Metamorph is sorely lacking in defensive options.
I could get behind Gish as a concept, but body distortion is just a very niche aesthetic imo.
Ok, but ... again, isn't it absolutely unsuited for gishing? Again, maybe I'm just not seeing it, but it looks to me like if the psion enters melee - it's because of an intense and acute death wish. It's a one way ticket, it's going to die, and do so fast.
Or am I missing some essential element of it's ability to not just splatter on impact?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I wasn't saying the current setup is in a good place for it, but if Wizards can Gish there's no fundamental reason why there can't be a subclass to support this if Psion makes it, and the post I replied to already acknowledged that the subclass needed better defense.
If you take biofeedback and psionic backlash you won't splatter instantly, but they don't scale super well and there's not much about the metamorph itself (they do have access to bonus action cure wound) to help.
You can also just stay at range with the Viscera Launcher. But again, I'm in favor of the Metamorph having stronger defenses since the devs seem to want it in melee.
I won't say no one because I'm sure there's a niche interest in it, but I expect the vast majority of people looking to weapon attack on a caster aren't looking to use ranged for it. Just isn't a substantially different experience from using most of the cantrips.
It's why I recommended Shield be accessible to all Psions.
The one subclass can keep the bonus to Shield.
Also, I pushed for the Metamorph Spell List to include Smites to incentivize usage of the weapon.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.