A solid performance despite people ignoring it in the wake of the OGL controversy
I've seen some truly wild claims about the impact of the OGL kerfuffle, but the idea that it had a meaningful impact on the box office of Honor Among Thieves might be the best one yet
Ok to be fair my view might be skewed because, the OGL was the most cited reason among the people i spoke to who skipped the movie, so i might be giving it inordinate weight.
There was a vocal “boycott D&D” demographic as it picked up steam, but looking at the aftermath they weren’t particularly large relative to the playerbase as a whole.
A solid performance despite people ignoring it in the wake of the OGL controversy
I've seen some truly wild claims about the impact of the OGL kerfuffle, but the idea that it had a meaningful impact on the box office of Honor Among Thieves might be the best one yet
Ok to be fair my view might be skewed because, the OGL was the most cited reason among the people i spoke to who skipped the movie, so i might be giving it inordinate weight.
On the list of reasons why it underperformed, that might not crack the top five
Fantasy movies in general don't do well theatrically, with the OG LOTR trilogy being almost the only exceptions. Even the Hobbit movies underperformed. Labyrinth, Princess Bride, Stardust... all tanked at the box office, all revered later. Honor Among Thieves actually did pretty well against that history -- I mean, if you want a true fantasy bomb, just look at Your Highness
They probably also missed the window for capitalizing on D&D's zeitgeist peak releasing it in 2023. The Stranger Things/CR/COVID boom had already come and gone
The real reason Honor Among Thieves hasn't gotten a sequel had more to do with its budget than its performance, though. $200 million worldwide is pretty strong, but when it cost $150 million to make, studios aren't going to rush to make another one
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It’s far more likely that the film was negatively impacted by releasing at the same time as the billion dollar Mario movie than the OGL which barely anyone outside of the hardcore D&D fanbase even knew was happening
Someone get back with me when there is a Pathfinder major movie or a Pathfinder video game that not only wins Game of the Year but sweeps all five major game award ceremonies (something never done before), or an Amazon Daggerheart anime series (100% Rotten score for all three seasons), or official US Govt Daggerheart postage stamps, or when one of them makes it on the front of Time Magazine, or when Girl Scout camps start hosting week-long Pathfinder themed camps...
I think DnD will be just fine for the foreseeable future.
Well this aged well...
Critical Role choosing D&D over its own game for Campaign 4 makes sense
Someone get back with me when there is a Pathfinder major movie or a Pathfinder video game that not only wins Game of the Year but sweeps all five major game award ceremonies (something never done before), or an Amazon Daggerheart anime series (100% Rotten score for all three seasons), or official US Govt Daggerheart postage stamps, or when one of them makes it on the front of Time Magazine, or when Girl Scout camps start hosting week-long Pathfinder themed camps...
I think DnD will be just fine for the foreseeable future.
Well this aged well...
Critical Role choosing D&D over its own game for Campaign 4 makes sense
I am not that surprised, I still think there is quiet a few issues with Daggerheart, it looks to me to be a system that is great for a one-shot, but would be too exhausting to run a full campaign in and the character/class progression just doesn't look that interesting.
People who got excited just because Critical Role was making a system were getting way too over-hyped, in my opinion. A good system will take a long time to mature and that isn't Daggerheart. Perhaps in the future it'll be something worth considering but right now, it isn't.
I am not that surprised, I still think there is quiet a few issues with Daggerheart, it looks to me to be a system that is great for a one-shot, but would be too exhausting to run a full campaign in and the character/class progression just doesn't look that interesting.
People who got excited just because Critical Role was making a system were getting way too over-hyped, in my opinion. A good system will take a long time to mature and that isn't Daggerheart. Perhaps in the future it'll be something worth considering but right now, it isn't.
They're still using Daggerheart for Age of Umbra and a number of other games.
It's more likely that the combination of "New System", "New DM", "New Format (Westmarches)" was seen as too many changes at once. Combine that with the likelihood that many of these decisions were made well before Daggerheart's release date, and they knew nothing about it's reception, and it just means it's a business decision, not a tribal declaration of war.
D&D and WotC are still on the hook to prove it's worth staying with D&D in the long term, both for the vocal minority, and the silent majority. They're doing some good changes 'on paper' but we're yet to see if those translate into real change.
I am not that surprised, I still think there is quiet a few issues with Daggerheart, it looks to me to be a system that is great for a one-shot, but would be too exhausting to run a full campaign in and the character/class progression just doesn't look that interesting.
People who got excited just because Critical Role was making a system were getting way too over-hyped, in my opinion. A good system will take a long time to mature and that isn't Daggerheart. Perhaps in the future it'll be something worth considering but right now, it isn't.
They're still using Daggerheart for Age of Umbra and a number of other games.
It's more likely that the combination of "New System", "New DM", "New Format (Westmarches)" was seen as too many changes at once. Combine that with the likelihood that many of these decisions were made well before Daggerheart's release date, and they knew nothing about it's reception, and it just means it's a business decision, not a tribal declaration of war.
D&D and WotC are still on the hook to prove it's worth staying with D&D in the long term, both for the vocal minority, and the silent majority. They're doing some good changes 'on paper' but we're yet to see if those translate into real change.
I am not saying that WotC doesn't need to keep being competitive with D&D, in fact on page 1 of this thread you can see where I point out that Pathfinder is closer to D&D than most people usually realise. I just do not believe Daggerheart as a 1st edition system is going to avoid having teething issues and that it requires more development before it is going to be able to be competitive.
Daggerheart too me looks like it still lacks in certain areas, character progression in Daggerheart is meant to avoid power creep but they went too far in that direction. The whole scene based play looks like a different way to do a TTRPG so it certainly has it's place but I just don't think that type of scene based play is something as easy to maintain for an entire campaign... however would be great for one shots or very short campaigns.
There was a vocal “boycott D&D” demographic as it picked up steam, but looking at the aftermath they weren’t particularly large relative to the playerbase as a whole.
On the list of reasons why it underperformed, that might not crack the top five
Fantasy movies in general don't do well theatrically, with the OG LOTR trilogy being almost the only exceptions. Even the Hobbit movies underperformed. Labyrinth, Princess Bride, Stardust... all tanked at the box office, all revered later. Honor Among Thieves actually did pretty well against that history -- I mean, if you want a true fantasy bomb, just look at Your Highness
They probably also missed the window for capitalizing on D&D's zeitgeist peak releasing it in 2023. The Stranger Things/CR/COVID boom had already come and gone
The real reason Honor Among Thieves hasn't gotten a sequel had more to do with its budget than its performance, though. $200 million worldwide is pretty strong, but when it cost $150 million to make, studios aren't going to rush to make another one
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It’s far more likely that the film was negatively impacted by releasing at the same time as the billion dollar Mario movie than the OGL which barely anyone outside of the hardcore D&D fanbase even knew was happening
Well this aged well...
Critical Role choosing D&D over its own game for Campaign 4 makes sense
https://www.polygon.com/critical-role-not-choosing-daggerheart-campaign-4-dungeons-dragons/#:~:text=Critical Role's Campaign 4,regretting Mercer in that role
I am not that surprised, I still think there is quiet a few issues with Daggerheart, it looks to me to be a system that is great for a one-shot, but would be too exhausting to run a full campaign in and the character/class progression just doesn't look that interesting.
People who got excited just because Critical Role was making a system were getting way too over-hyped, in my opinion. A good system will take a long time to mature and that isn't Daggerheart. Perhaps in the future it'll be something worth considering but right now, it isn't.
They're still using Daggerheart for Age of Umbra and a number of other games.
It's more likely that the combination of "New System", "New DM", "New Format (Westmarches)" was seen as too many changes at once. Combine that with the likelihood that many of these decisions were made well before Daggerheart's release date, and they knew nothing about it's reception, and it just means it's a business decision, not a tribal declaration of war.
D&D and WotC are still on the hook to prove it's worth staying with D&D in the long term, both for the vocal minority, and the silent majority. They're doing some good changes 'on paper' but we're yet to see if those translate into real change.
I am not saying that WotC doesn't need to keep being competitive with D&D, in fact on page 1 of this thread you can see where I point out that Pathfinder is closer to D&D than most people usually realise. I just do not believe Daggerheart as a 1st edition system is going to avoid having teething issues and that it requires more development before it is going to be able to be competitive.
Daggerheart too me looks like it still lacks in certain areas, character progression in Daggerheart is meant to avoid power creep but they went too far in that direction. The whole scene based play looks like a different way to do a TTRPG so it certainly has it's place but I just don't think that type of scene based play is something as easy to maintain for an entire campaign... however would be great for one shots or very short campaigns.