Because I am an old man on a fixed income, I can't afford the massive price increases introduced by Wizards of the Coast anymore. My only option is to try to win content (which is how I got Dragon Delves) or Homebrew everything new.
As I understand it, sales have plummeted for Dungeons & Dragons...maybe the increased prices are the reason. It certainly is for me. $50 is a two month saving project for me these days...if I'm lucky.
So, until Wizards starts giving Senior Citizen discounts, I'm too broke to buy. Glad I bought a lot of content back when it was al la carte. That was the only way I could do it...in pieces.
(I run or play in about 8 games monthly)
Edit: I'm not saying this to whine about it, I'm making Wizards aware that the price increases are a huge part of their problem.
Think I'll address some possible comments in advance:
"All three of the 2024 core books were $49.99 and the 2014 core books were $49.95. The price hasn't gone up."
A starter set going from $15 for Lost Mines and Essentials Kit (at Walmart) to $150 is an absolutely HUGE increase. Nevermind that they put more stuff in it...did they offer a trimmed down version at $15? No. That's ten times the last starter set. So don't tell me prices have not increased.
ALSO: Removing the al la carte option was a price increase. Before, I could buy pieces of books to lower the cost of initial investment. This allowed me to afford to eventually get entire books. Wizards of the Coast still made the same profit, just more slowly.
"The Free Rules. It has every class and a subclass, a bucket of magic items, and a whole menagerie of monsters. For free. Every other element isn't necessary."
This is fine, in theory, but players want options. In order to meet their demands, you must have all of the options so far as character creation. I have a pool of about 147 players, and if they are stuck with free rules, I'm lucky to get 1 player to sign up for a game. Adventures? Forget about it. The adventures Wizards are putting out cost 30 or higher, and are not worthy of the price because the quality has dropped in most cases. I own Dragon Delves (won it) and it sure is pretty...but not a great set of adventures.
I don't even care if they offer some free content...I'm willing to pay when I can...but I simply cannot.
Really, anyone suggesting to only play with the free content has clearly not tried only using the free content, because it is not nearly good enough to play with.
"there are many avenues to start playing TTRPGs"
I play only DnD. Not interests in learning others.
They have to compete with board games, which start at $50.
Dragonlance. They made the board game optional. That's what they should be doing with the starter set. The irony? The new starter set is not even aimed at starters...because no starter is going to pay that huge price. Also, while a few board games sell for $50, many, many of them are over $200 these days...and I'm not interested in board games. I'm interested in straight up DnD.
Also, if they want in increased market, find a way to allow VTTs to offer the board game expansions.
And FINALLY, don't assume that because you don't feel the pinch that others are not. I am. 100%. You may not care, but I'm hoping Wizards does.
A starter set going from $15 for Lost Mines and Essentials Kit (at Walmart) to $150 is an absolutely HUGE increase. Nevermind that they put more stuff in it...did they offer a trimmed down version at $15?.
Both these points are factually incorrect.
1. The 2024 starter kit, with all the accessories, is $49.99 - far less than the $150 you quote.
2. They literally do offer a trimmed down version at $14.99 - you can get the digital contents, without the accessories, for that price on this very site.
Also, if you have a pool of 147 players that want all the options, than surely they are willing to help acquire all those options?
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"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war |Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
Think I'll address some possible comments in advance:
"All three of the 2024 core books were $49.99 and the 2014 core books were $49.95. The price hasn't gone up."
A starter set going from $15 for Lost Mines and Essentials Kit (at Walmart) to $150 is an absolutely HUGE increase. Nevermind that they put more stuff in it...did they offer a trimmed down version at $15? No. That's ten times the last starter set. So don't tell me prices have not increased.
ALSO: Removing the al la carte option was a price increase. Before, I could buy pieces of books to lower the cost of initial investment. This allowed me to afford to eventually get entire books. Wizards of the Coast still made the same profit, just more slowly.
"The Free Rules. It has every class and a subclass, a bucket of magic items, and a whole menagerie of monsters. For free. Every other element isn't necessary."
This is fine, in theory, but players want options. In order to meet their demands, you must have all of the options so far as character creation. I have a pool of about 147 players, and if they are stuck with free rules, I'm lucky to get 1 player to sign up for a game. Adventures? Forget about it. The adventures Wizards are putting out cost 30 or higher, and are not worthy of the price because the quality has dropped in most cases. I own Dragon Delves (won it) and it sure is pretty...but not a great set of adventures.
I don't even care if they offer some free content...I'm willing to pay when I can...but I simply cannot.
Really, anyone suggesting to only play with the free content has clearly not tried only using the free content, because it is not nearly good enough to play with.
"there are many avenues to start playing TTRPGs"
I play only DnD. Not interests in learning others.
They have to compete with board games, which start at $50.
Dragonlance. They made the board game optional. That's what they should be doing with the starter set. The irony? The new starter set is not even aimed at starters...because no starter is going to pay that huge price. Also, while a few board games sell for $50, many, many of them are over $200 these days...and I'm not interested in board games. I'm interested in straight up DnD.
Also, if they want in increased market, find a way to allow VTTs to offer the board game expansions.
And FINALLY, don't assume that because you don't feel the pinch that others are not. I am. 100%. You may not care, but I'm hoping Wizards does.
When I got my copy of Lost Mines it most definitely wasn't merely $15. The new starter set, though, is $15 digital, $50 physical and $55 for the deluxe bundle with both with extras, so definitely not $150. Not even sure what 'Lost Mines and Essentials' is as a product. Not seeing anything on this site or on Amazon called that.
And if you need to have 'all options' to meet the demands of your players, that is on your players being greedy. They are not physically able to play literally every combination, but as with any game, they can learn to make due with what they have. A player saying they won't play unless you have (or allow) everything they want is a problematic player at best. And they can buy the book(s) for you, if it is that important to them.
Plus, it seems hard to believe you are literally just starting, but all these are issues you feel the players are simply right on. If one of them wanted you to pay their gas for their getting to your sessions, would you also complain about the price of gas rather than telling the player to pay it themselves?
There has been zero recent price increase. The MSRP of physical books went up by $10 two years ago, and digital versions have not changed in price
The MSRP increase actually tracks below inflation so in terms of actual spending power based on inflation, the books are cheaper today than they were in 2014 (this assumes your income has tracked with inflation, which while that should be the case, often isn't. This however is not WotCs remit)
If you have nearly 150 players and run an average of two games a week, ask your players to help you out with buying the books if you feel the necessity to "meet their demands". If you asked each of those players for $1, you could buy every book released since the 2024 PHB came out. If you asked for $1 once a month you could easily keep up with the new releases, which I must stress again have not increased in price in the last 2 years for physical books and have not increased in price for digital.
It sounds like the ones at fault are not WotC, but your players for making financial demands of a DM who clearly cannot afford what they're asking for. Your players sound entitled if they expect you to foot the entire bill, especially without chipping in anything.
Think I'll address some possible comments in advance:
"All three of the 2024 core books were $49.99 and the 2014 core books were $49.95. The price hasn't gone up."
A starter set going from $15 for Lost Mines and Essentials Kit (at Walmart) to $150 is an absolutely HUGE increase. Nevermind that they put more stuff in it...did they offer a trimmed down version at $15? No. That's ten times the last starter set. So don't tell me prices have not increased.
You're comparing a discounted starter set to list on the three main books. That's comparing apples and prime rib.
List on the starter sets I could find info on (Icespire peak and stormwrack isle) were $25 and $20, respectively. Is the new one more expensive? Sure. It's also got a lot more stuff in it. But it's not $150.
Anyway, you're clearly an experienced DM. What do you need a starter set for? What do you need an adventure book for? You've presumably got your core books, you've got whatever supplements you bought. You're good.
And yes, times aren't great, and money's tight, but you're blaming WotC, who have not raised prices on the core books, and only recently raised any prices at all. (And IIRC, one of the upcoming FR books is only the second book they're releasing at the $60 price.)
There's plenty of people to blame on the economy, but Wizards seem to have done their best to keep prices down.
"I want to rehash a concluded discussion" and "I want to complain about a problem but also vociferously reject all feedback and suggestions on how to deal with the problem" are two of my least favorite genres of posts.
I feel like this was settled rather thoroughly last week. But I do feel it prudent to address two points that aren't well supported this time around:
A.) The responses last time didn't dispute that the OP is "feeling the pinch." The disagreement was with the unfounded assertion that WotC raised prices when they didn't. Also, the suggestions clearly came from a place of understanding and empathy.
2.) If you were going to buy the whole book anyway, buying a la carte was a worse value proposition most of the time. Even moreso now that it seems you're buying for 147.
But... now that that 147 number is floating about, I'm real curious how that squares with the 12-player sharing limit on D&D Beyond's master subscription tier.
And anyway, if you're complaining about the quality of the books then why do you want to buy them?
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Because I am an old man on a fixed income, I can't afford the massive price increases introduced by Wizards of the Coast anymore. My only option is to try to win content (which is how I got Dragon Delves) or Homebrew everything new.
As I understand it, sales have plummeted for Dungeons & Dragons...maybe the increased prices are the reason. It certainly is for me. $50 is a two month saving project for me these days...if I'm lucky.
So, until Wizards starts giving Senior Citizen discounts, I'm too broke to buy. Glad I bought a lot of content back when it was al la carte. That was the only way I could do it...in pieces.
(I run or play in about 8 games monthly)
Edit: I'm not saying this to whine about it, I'm making Wizards aware that the price increases are a huge part of their problem.
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!
The 2024 core rulebooks cost the same amount that the 2014 ones did at their original release.
pronouns: he/she/they
Think I'll address some possible comments in advance:
"All three of the 2024 core books were $49.99 and the 2014 core books were $49.95. The price hasn't gone up."
A starter set going from $15 for Lost Mines and Essentials Kit (at Walmart) to $150 is an absolutely HUGE increase. Nevermind that they put more stuff in it...did they offer a trimmed down version at $15? No. That's ten times the last starter set. So don't tell me prices have not increased.
ALSO: Removing the al la carte option was a price increase. Before, I could buy pieces of books to lower the cost of initial investment. This allowed me to afford to eventually get entire books. Wizards of the Coast still made the same profit, just more slowly.
"The Free Rules. It has every class and a subclass, a bucket of magic items, and a whole menagerie of monsters. For free. Every other element isn't necessary."
This is fine, in theory, but players want options. In order to meet their demands, you must have all of the options so far as character creation. I have a pool of about 147 players, and if they are stuck with free rules, I'm lucky to get 1 player to sign up for a game. Adventures? Forget about it. The adventures Wizards are putting out cost 30 or higher, and are not worthy of the price because the quality has dropped in most cases. I own Dragon Delves (won it) and it sure is pretty...but not a great set of adventures.
I don't even care if they offer some free content...I'm willing to pay when I can...but I simply cannot.
Really, anyone suggesting to only play with the free content has clearly not tried only using the free content, because it is not nearly good enough to play with.
"there are many avenues to start playing TTRPGs"
I play only DnD. Not interests in learning others.
They have to compete with board games, which start at $50.
Dragonlance. They made the board game optional. That's what they should be doing with the starter set. The irony? The new starter set is not even aimed at starters...because no starter is going to pay that huge price. Also, while a few board games sell for $50, many, many of them are over $200 these days...and I'm not interested in board games. I'm interested in straight up DnD.
Also, if they want in increased market, find a way to allow VTTs to offer the board game expansions.
And FINALLY, don't assume that because you don't feel the pinch that others are not. I am. 100%. You may not care, but I'm hoping Wizards does.
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!
Both these points are factually incorrect.
1. The 2024 starter kit, with all the accessories, is $49.99 - far less than the $150 you quote.
2. They literally do offer a trimmed down version at $14.99 - you can get the digital contents, without the accessories, for that price on this very site.
Also, if you have a pool of 147 players that want all the options, than surely they are willing to help acquire all those options?
"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war | Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
When I got my copy of Lost Mines it most definitely wasn't merely $15. The new starter set, though, is $15 digital, $50 physical and $55 for the deluxe bundle with both with extras, so definitely not $150. Not even sure what 'Lost Mines and Essentials' is as a product. Not seeing anything on this site or on Amazon called that.
And if you need to have 'all options' to meet the demands of your players, that is on your players being greedy. They are not physically able to play literally every combination, but as with any game, they can learn to make due with what they have. A player saying they won't play unless you have (or allow) everything they want is a problematic player at best. And they can buy the book(s) for you, if it is that important to them.
Plus, it seems hard to believe you are literally just starting, but all these are issues you feel the players are simply right on. If one of them wanted you to pay their gas for their getting to your sessions, would you also complain about the price of gas rather than telling the player to pay it themselves?
As you have been informed previously:
If you have nearly 150 players and run an average of two games a week, ask your players to help you out with buying the books if you feel the necessity to "meet their demands". If you asked each of those players for $1, you could buy every book released since the 2024 PHB came out. If you asked for $1 once a month you could easily keep up with the new releases, which I must stress again have not increased in price in the last 2 years for physical books and have not increased in price for digital.
It sounds like the ones at fault are not WotC, but your players for making financial demands of a DM who clearly cannot afford what they're asking for. Your players sound entitled if they expect you to foot the entire bill, especially without chipping in anything.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
You're comparing a discounted starter set to list on the three main books. That's comparing apples and prime rib.
List on the starter sets I could find info on (Icespire peak and stormwrack isle) were $25 and $20, respectively. Is the new one more expensive? Sure. It's also got a lot more stuff in it. But it's not $150.
Anyway, you're clearly an experienced DM. What do you need a starter set for? What do you need an adventure book for? You've presumably got your core books, you've got whatever supplements you bought. You're good.
And yes, times aren't great, and money's tight, but you're blaming WotC, who have not raised prices on the core books, and only recently raised any prices at all. (And IIRC, one of the upcoming FR books is only the second book they're releasing at the $60 price.)
There's plenty of people to blame on the economy, but Wizards seem to have done their best to keep prices down.
Are we really doing this thread again
147 players...ask each of them for a couple of bucks and you have the books paid for.
"I want to rehash a concluded discussion" and "I want to complain about a problem but also vociferously reject all feedback and suggestions on how to deal with the problem" are two of my least favorite genres of posts.
I feel like this was settled rather thoroughly last week. But I do feel it prudent to address two points that aren't well supported this time around:
A.) The responses last time didn't dispute that the OP is "feeling the pinch." The disagreement was with the unfounded assertion that WotC raised prices when they didn't. Also, the suggestions clearly came from a place of understanding and empathy.
2.) If you were going to buy the whole book anyway, buying a la carte was a worse value proposition most of the time. Even moreso now that it seems you're buying for 147.
But... now that that 147 number is floating about, I'm real curious how that squares with the 12-player sharing limit on D&D Beyond's master subscription tier.
And anyway, if you're complaining about the quality of the books then why do you want to buy them?