I understand and on a qualitative level I agree. But I don't know if Hasbro really sees the difference. I mean they had a movie made out of Battleship too right?
The Monopoly line is more facetious with some truth. WotC says "we need to make 6e". Hasbro consults sales figures of core products in the line. "The heck you do." Again, it's a given the smaller studio model from which WotC DnD line probably grew up within does "new editions" as a way to justify their existence within relatively limited markets compared to what 5e penetrated. As long as PHB/MM/DMG, Essentials, and Basic Sets are getting WotC pats on the backs from Hasbro, you're not going to see a new rules set. As I said with Monopoly and Clue editions, you may see the rules presented differently, and new formats experimented with (I'd even argue that was mentioned when the folks with the direct line to Hasbro were talking about products including the "class settings" revisits), but those products will still be 5e.
Monopoly is an imperfect game noted for bringing out extreme passions in its players though....
Yeah there was a more recent "what if 6e?" thread that got shut down. I've also seen this "timeline" before insinuity it as the basis of calculation, but it misses the big factor that WotC is now owned by Hasbro. In that shut down thread I wrote the following:
Just some food for thought about the new elevated position WotC occupies in the Hasbro infrastructure. When was the last time Hasbro changed the rules to Monopoly? As long as WotC can demonstrate they have strong sales of its entry rules sets (essentials, basic, or PHB and Cores) and those entry consumers continue buying new supplemental content, I don't see WotC design study having a strong case of saying "we need to change the rules to a new edition" to the business managers Hasbro installs with oversight over the design studio. Why take a new edition risk on a proven sales maker?
Now Hasbro does do well selling different editions of Monopoly, or Clue, but those editions are from our hobby's standpoint reskins or alternate/expanded lore than what in TTRPG is considered an edition. As Tasha's and Xanthar's become the way more and more folks say "the game is played" (and marketing proof supports it, "i.e. surveys say everyone plays with Xanathars and Tashas, but really both books only amount to 30% of our PHB sales") I do foresee different formats to the rules, consolidating some of the options of Xanathars and Tasha's into a deluxe core rule sets or what have,you; but given how WotC business is governed compared to the rules governed by smaller craft or boutiqued game studios where new editions are an essential aspect of continued existence/relevance (looking at you, Chaosism, and I see you R Talsorian, maybe Steve Jackson, though do they really TTRPG outside its nostalgia markets anymore?). 5e just occupies a very very different space than I'd say any TTRPG ruleset. And I write this as someone who runs 5e games because I'm asked to. D&D in all its iterations aren't actually my favorite rulesets, and until recently my favorite rule sets have actually been "dead rules" that haven't been supported by an actual publishers in a couple of decades. Also not saying I don't like playing 5e, I actually do.
Basically TSR produced content on a very different model that WotC. When Hasbro made WotC a subsidiary, and subsequently elevated them to a new unit within the Hasbro infrastructure, a totally different ballgame is being played now. Again, how often has the rules to Monopoly changed? I think rather than a truly new edition, you're much more likely to see a repackaging of the core, likely reconciled with Xanathar's and Tasha's and probably another book or two by the time of the 50th. WotC "We need to rebuild the rules." Hasbro (with sales data) "Excuse me?"
Arm chair analysts are better served educating themselves on the actual industry. Read Steve Jacksons Games Stakeholder Report (used to be written by Steve Jackson, these days I think it's mostly Phil Reed). Different animal than Wizards ever was but gives you a good sense. Pay attention to what's actually said at GAMA, and if you don't know what that is, find out. Look at the companies I mentioned in the report. Then check just Amazon and see the sales rankings of WotC 5e titles compared to anything else in the TTRPG sector. Then come back and tell us why a 6e is on the horizon for reasons beyond a calendar's symmetry says the stars are right. I mean astrology is fun to play around with, but I don't actually make plans based on it.
Also the official rules to Monopoly have been updated many times over the years and if you count all the variations, then there are literally hundreds of editions of Monopoly. A 6e is not that far fetched.
Also the official rules to Monopoly have been updated many times over the years and if you count all the variations, then there are literally hundreds of editions of Monopoly. A 6e is not that far fetched.
You use that word literally and that other word hundreds in a fashion prompting me to want to quote Mandy Patinkin in the Princess Bride, speaking of classics. The rules of Monopoly have not changed substantially from the 30s till now, especially and the only way you get anywhere near "hundreds" of editions is if you take in the various editions that change from the U.S. classic buzz sets to include other geographies, IPs, or themes. All of those "editions" are basically reskins of the game and really in TTRPG terms constitutes alternative setting books than a new edition of rules.
We both agree a 6e is up to market forces. My take is that the ultimate decision to leave 5e behind for a 6e (as opposed to simply repackage and consolidate 6e) will be a much more conservative risk analysis than a lot of folks who persist in its a matter of clockwork timing (as opposed to actual metrics used by a business that would be risk averse to harming a persistent outstanding position within its market. It's not far fetched but it's not as simple as the design team looking at the calendar and saying "it's time," which was the impetus for this thread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I suspect that we will get a 5e overhaul before we get 6e.
There are clearly directions which they want to go with 5e which are currently blocked due to older printed content, so I reckon there will be a ton of class / subclass / race rewrites in the future, much like the bladesinger.
Also the official rules to Monopoly have been updated many times over the years and if you count all the variations, then there are literally hundreds of editions of Monopoly. A 6e is not that far fetched.
You use that word literally and that other word hundreds in a fashion prompting me to want to quote Mandy Patinkin in the Princess Bride, speaking of classics. The rules of Monopoly have not changed substantially from the 30s till now, especially and the only way you get anywhere near "hundreds" of editions is if you take in the various editions that change from the U.S. classic buzz sets to include other geographies, IPs, or themes. All of those "editions" are basically reskins of the game and really in TTRPG terms constitutes alternative setting books than a new edition of rules.
We both agree a 6e is up to market forces. My take is that the ultimate decision to leave 5e behind for a 6e (as opposed to simply repackage and consolidate 6e) will be a much more conservative risk analysis than a lot of folks who persist in its a matter of clockwork timing (as opposed to actual metrics used by a business that would be risk averse to harming a persistent outstanding position within its market. It's not far fetched but it's not as simple as the design team looking at the calendar and saying "it's time," which was the impetus for this thread.
On BoardGameGeek there are over 1000 editions of Monopoly that you can buy so yes there are literally hundreds.
However we do agree that time doesn't really factor into when we will see 6e beyond fun speculation.
So long as WoTC quarterly earnings remain strong, there is little incentive to ditch 5e. Every other consideration, interesting or not, is subservient. On a personal level, I have no interest in 6e because I don’t want to have to reinvest in core books, and have the same adventures (however updated) re-published. There are continents of content WoTC has yet to touch in Toril alone. It’s hard to image WoTC couldn't keep the 5e training running for a long, long time.
So long as WoTC quarterly earnings remain strong, there is little incentive to ditch 5e. Every other consideration, interesting or not, is subservient.
On BoardGameGeek there are over 1000 editions of Monopoly that you can buy so yes there are literally hundreds.
However we do agree that time doesn't really factor into when we will see 6e beyond fun speculation.
Eeegads, your BoardGameGeek catalog precisely illustrates my point. By far the bulk of those listings are "editions" just as explained them, reskins of the game, played by the same rules, like the U.S. Parks edition or the Warhammer 40k edition. Those aren't like editions of D&D rules at all. Rather, as I explained a number of times in this threads, they're more akin to new settings in which the rules can be played. I know this because I actually own a few "editions" of Monopoly and have never had an occasion where I needed to consult the rules sheet to parse variations in how the sets are played. You're almost like saying a chess set featuring pieces modeled after Federation and Klingon star ships and a chess set featuring pieces modeled after figures from WWII are different games analogous to the difference between 4e and 5e and hypothetical 6e.
The entires that don't fall into that category aren't so much new editions of Monopoly but Hasbro or prior owners of the property, but mostly Hasbro, using the Monopoly Brand to sell entirely different games. Much like Hasbro has done with Betrayal at House on the Hill was reskinned into Dungeons and Dragons Betrayal in Baldur's Gate.
I think I'm done with correcting you since you're either being willfully obtuse or really aren't comprehending the evidence you're trying to furnish in your quibble against a facetious component to a larger argument (the larger argument with which you're actually in agreement).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Like many people have already stated, I--too--do not want a 6e. I just started playing during the pandemic and I'm in my 40s. I have lost time to make up for! :) I'm enjoying it as is, and may have joined it at the best time. I'm super excited to hear that 6e will be backward compatible, as I have purchased several physical books. That is very cool. Hopefully, the source books are super lucrative for wizards and we can just keep going.
There was a Tweet oft cited, maybe even in this thread from Crawford or maybe Merle's saying future D&D editions would be backward compatible to 5e. Of course 5e having gone the path it's gone with what some probably call the "Tasha's Schism" exactly what 5e such backward compatibility would meet is probably up for debate. I still think a "consolidated" edition of 5e timed with the 50th anniversary is probably the most likely product on the horizon. Not a new edition, but a new formatting that aligns core rules with options published since the core books. Sort of like Strahd Revamped but instead a set of products for the rules.
Also in mentioning this backward compatibility assertion I'm not saying it's gospel, but it has been said and cited by folks who want it to be.
Well from the records call or whatever it is when they talk to investor types 2019 was a record year for WotC, and 2020 beat that with making somewhere in the 750 million to 850 million in profits. They won't toss that into the garbage for a 6th edition as 5th is doing so well, I know that isn't all just from D&D but covers other stuff like MTG and others stuff WotC does.
Am I the only one who hopes that any updates (either to 5th edition or being brought in with the 6th edition) will bring back some of the older races from previous editions? I was kinda a fan of the Lupins, Vulpins, and Gnolls from the previous versions myself, and I'm hoping they, and other races, make a potential comeback sometime in the future.
As a long time player in groups that have master tier DMs I would love to see 6e launch. I have wanted to get into DMing but have no books myself and players expect shared content from the DM in general. The idea of spending close $500 to get up an running with all of my own book copies is a pretty high barrier for getting into a new play style. Power creep is also a huge problem in 5e books like tashas. The master tier concept of content sharing has changed things around and made it almost essential to have a table fee if your getting started as a DM.
I'm looking forward to 6e as the time to get started DMing with a cleaner more balanced system. Hopefully with better action system (3 per turn no types including move, free,bonus), no feat/api merging, and better balance for duel wielding. Int having a skill profiency impact to not be such a universal dump stat would also be good.
As a long time player in groups that have master tier DMs I would love to see 6e launch. I have wanted to get into DMing but have no books myself and players expect shared content from the DM in general. The idea of spending close $500 to get up an running with all of my own book copies is a pretty high barrier for getting into a new play style. Power creep is also a huge problem in 5e books like tashas. The master tier concept of content sharing has changed things around and made it almost essential to have a table fee if your getting started as a DM.
You do know that you can play 5e completely for FREE, right? The SRD/Basic Rules is all you need. I am not sure who gave you the idea that you need to spend a fortune to play D&D, but I will tell you that you do not need to spend a single penny to play.
And if you want more options, UA is not only free, it is also the more beefed up version of its paid published counterparts. If you want free and more powerful stuff, UA is the place to go.
You do not need Master Tier subscription either. If you have the time, you can just use the homebrew tools to recreate everything you need and it will get automatically shared.
I also do not recommend starting GMs to charge people right off the bat. They have enough pressure as is just getting the hang of GMing, there is no need to try to break their backs with paid expectations on top.
Yeah. This is the reaction I have too. I would find better people and groups to play with. It is one thing for the GM to voluntarily shoulder the cost of the group, but it is quite another thing for players to expect the GM to pay everything for them.
I understand and on a qualitative level I agree. But I don't know if Hasbro really sees the difference. I mean they had a movie made out of Battleship too right?
The Monopoly line is more facetious with some truth. WotC says "we need to make 6e". Hasbro consults sales figures of core products in the line. "The heck you do." Again, it's a given the smaller studio model from which WotC DnD line probably grew up within does "new editions" as a way to justify their existence within relatively limited markets compared to what 5e penetrated. As long as PHB/MM/DMG, Essentials, and Basic Sets are getting WotC pats on the backs from Hasbro, you're not going to see a new rules set. As I said with Monopoly and Clue editions, you may see the rules presented differently, and new formats experimented with (I'd even argue that was mentioned when the folks with the direct line to Hasbro were talking about products including the "class settings" revisits), but those products will still be 5e.
Monopoly is an imperfect game noted for bringing out extreme passions in its players though....
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
When sales numbers drop, we will get an all new edition of D&D. It really is that simple. When will that be, only WotC and Hasbro knows.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Also the official rules to Monopoly have been updated many times over the years and if you count all the variations, then there are literally hundreds of editions of Monopoly. A 6e is not that far fetched.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You use that word literally and that other word hundreds in a fashion prompting me to want to quote Mandy Patinkin in the Princess Bride, speaking of classics. The rules of Monopoly have not changed substantially from the 30s till now, especially and the only way you get anywhere near "hundreds" of editions is if you take in the various editions that change from the U.S. classic buzz sets to include other geographies, IPs, or themes. All of those "editions" are basically reskins of the game and really in TTRPG terms constitutes alternative setting books than a new edition of rules.
We both agree a 6e is up to market forces. My take is that the ultimate decision to leave 5e behind for a 6e (as opposed to simply repackage and consolidate 6e) will be a much more conservative risk analysis than a lot of folks who persist in its a matter of clockwork timing (as opposed to actual metrics used by a business that would be risk averse to harming a persistent outstanding position within its market. It's not far fetched but it's not as simple as the design team looking at the calendar and saying "it's time," which was the impetus for this thread.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I suspect that we will get a 5e overhaul before we get 6e.
There are clearly directions which they want to go with 5e which are currently blocked due to older printed content, so I reckon there will be a ton of class / subclass / race rewrites in the future, much like the bladesinger.
On BoardGameGeek there are over 1000 editions of Monopoly that you can buy so yes there are literally hundreds.
However we do agree that time doesn't really factor into when we will see 6e beyond fun speculation.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
So long as WoTC quarterly earnings remain strong, there is little incentive to ditch 5e. Every other consideration, interesting or not, is subservient. On a personal level, I have no interest in 6e because I don’t want to have to reinvest in core books, and have the same adventures (however updated) re-published. There are continents of content WoTC has yet to touch in Toril alone. It’s hard to image WoTC couldn't keep the 5e training running for a long, long time.
Truth
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Eeegads, your BoardGameGeek catalog precisely illustrates my point. By far the bulk of those listings are "editions" just as explained them, reskins of the game, played by the same rules, like the U.S. Parks edition or the Warhammer 40k edition. Those aren't like editions of D&D rules at all. Rather, as I explained a number of times in this threads, they're more akin to new settings in which the rules can be played. I know this because I actually own a few "editions" of Monopoly and have never had an occasion where I needed to consult the rules sheet to parse variations in how the sets are played. You're almost like saying a chess set featuring pieces modeled after Federation and Klingon star ships and a chess set featuring pieces modeled after figures from WWII are different games analogous to the difference between 4e and 5e and hypothetical 6e.
The entires that don't fall into that category aren't so much new editions of Monopoly but Hasbro or prior owners of the property, but mostly Hasbro, using the Monopoly Brand to sell entirely different games. Much like Hasbro has done with Betrayal at House on the Hill was reskinned into Dungeons and Dragons Betrayal in Baldur's Gate.
I think I'm done with correcting you since you're either being willfully obtuse or really aren't comprehending the evidence you're trying to furnish in your quibble against a facetious component to a larger argument (the larger argument with which you're actually in agreement).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Like many people have already stated, I--too--do not want a 6e. I just started playing during the pandemic and I'm in my 40s. I have lost time to make up for! :) I'm enjoying it as is, and may have joined it at the best time. I'm super excited to hear that 6e will be backward compatible, as I have purchased several physical books. That is very cool. Hopefully, the source books are super lucrative for wizards and we can just keep going.
Cheers,
Wm
Where did you hear that 6E would be backwards compatible?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
There was a Tweet oft cited, maybe even in this thread from Crawford or maybe Merle's saying future D&D editions would be backward compatible to 5e. Of course 5e having gone the path it's gone with what some probably call the "Tasha's Schism" exactly what 5e such backward compatibility would meet is probably up for debate. I still think a "consolidated" edition of 5e timed with the 50th anniversary is probably the most likely product on the horizon. Not a new edition, but a new formatting that aligns core rules with options published since the core books. Sort of like Strahd Revamped but instead a set of products for the rules.
Also in mentioning this backward compatibility assertion I'm not saying it's gospel, but it has been said and cited by folks who want it to be.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
In this very thread. It's mentioned at least twice. Happy gaming!
Well from the records call or whatever it is when they talk to investor types 2019 was a record year for WotC, and 2020 beat that with making somewhere in the 750 million to 850 million in profits. They won't toss that into the garbage for a 6th edition as 5th is doing so well, I know that isn't all just from D&D but covers other stuff like MTG and others stuff WotC does.
Am I the only one who hopes that any updates (either to 5th edition or being brought in with the 6th edition) will bring back some of the older races from previous editions? I was kinda a fan of the Lupins, Vulpins, and Gnolls from the previous versions myself, and I'm hoping they, and other races, make a potential comeback sometime in the future.
But each edition of Monopoly is no more than the equivalent of a new campaign in D&D.
The same rules, with maybe a few extra specific rules thrown in, and with a different flavour to it.
As a long time player in groups that have master tier DMs I would love to see 6e launch. I have wanted to get into DMing but have no books myself and players expect shared content from the DM in general. The idea of spending close $500 to get up an running with all of my own book copies is a pretty high barrier for getting into a new play style. Power creep is also a huge problem in 5e books like tashas. The master tier concept of content sharing has changed things around and made it almost essential to have a table fee if your getting started as a DM.
I'm looking forward to 6e as the time to get started DMing with a cleaner more balanced system. Hopefully with better action system (3 per turn no types including move, free,bonus), no feat/api merging, and better balance for duel wielding. Int having a skill profiency impact to not be such a universal dump stat would also be good.
Ugh.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You do know that you can play 5e completely for FREE, right? The SRD/Basic Rules is all you need. I am not sure who gave you the idea that you need to spend a fortune to play D&D, but I will tell you that you do not need to spend a single penny to play.
And if you want more options, UA is not only free, it is also the more beefed up version of its paid published counterparts. If you want free and more powerful stuff, UA is the place to go.
You do not need Master Tier subscription either. If you have the time, you can just use the homebrew tools to recreate everything you need and it will get automatically shared.
I also do not recommend starting GMs to charge people right off the bat. They have enough pressure as is just getting the hang of GMing, there is no need to try to break their backs with paid expectations on top.
Yeah. This is the reaction I have too. I would find better people and groups to play with. It is one thing for the GM to voluntarily shoulder the cost of the group, but it is quite another thing for players to expect the GM to pay everything for them.
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I've never played in a D&D game where the GM was expected to share content with players. And I'm in four online games right now.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.