So I am confident I want to be a halfling archer, but as a noob, I am unsure of the some of the mechanical differences between ranger, fighter and rogue archers. I'm leaning towards a Fighter (Arcane Archer) simply because I like the idea of trick/specialty arrows.
Though, I'd appreciate a quick breakdown of different types of archers. I would be especially interested to see someone make a good case for the ranger because I don't understand what the ranger offers to counter the rogue's sneak attack or the fighter's survivability.
The ranger offers spells, favored terrain, and favored enemy. Basically, a lot of non-combat abilities that are kind of unique to them.
I think rogues make the best archers because of sneak attack and cunning action. Rogues and archers both favor being out of the fray.
Fighters and Rangers are kind of tied. They both get a fighting style and get extra attack at level 5. The ranger has more versatility with its spells and features, while the fighter gets more ASIs and more extra attacks making it more optimised for battle.
I highly recommend a level of Fighter or 2 levels of Ranger for the Archery Fighting Style +2 to hit on ranged attacks is awesome, then going Rogue. Take the Sharpshooter feat and Shortbow rocks. Take the Skulker Feat so you don't give your hidden position away in case of a miss. The Crossbow Expert Feat can grant you a second crossbow attack if you use a hand crossbow. This is my sniper here https://ddb.ac/characters/4528035/SRyxkm as you can see I went 5 levels as a Ranger Gloomstalker before going Rogue. Not done with the build yet still need Skulker. I am going to go Inquisitive Rogue for him
Gloomstalker ranger is a good dip. Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer, and Primal Awareness are more neat than mechanically useful (like the paladin's divine sense).
But a fighting style, spellcasting, extra attack, dread ambusher, and umbral sight are all beneficial. And since the rogue doesn't have much going on besides sneak, skills, and good rolls, it can add a bit of depth to the character.
*I just wish Urban could be a favored terrain, but I guess they didn't want to accidently give the base a ranger a good ability.
I've been wondering the same thing except for my character I've specifically excluded spellcasting because it doesn't make sense for her. I'd love to make her a spellless Ranger but D&DB doesn't really support it very well and it just complicates things.
Instead I know she's going to start with 1 level in Rogue and will definitely have at least 1 level in Fighter for the Archery Fighting Style. But beyond that I don't know whether to go full Rogue or full Fighter or mix and match - let alone what subclass(es) she'd be.
I've been wondering the same thing except for my character I've specifically excluded spellcasting because it doesn't make sense for her. I'd love to make her a spellless Ranger but D&DB doesn't really support it very well and it just complicates things.
Instead I know she's going to start with 1 level in Rogue and will definitely have at least 1 level in Fighter for the Archery Fighting Style. But beyond that I don't know whether to go full Rogue or full Fighter or mix and match - let alone what subclass(es) she'd be.
If you have the chance, give a look at the Scout Rogue subclass, they are specifically tailored to be the ranged "spec" for Rogues.
Alternatively, as you do not want to have spells (and I guess spell-like abilities are also out of the question) the Battle Master is always a good option to go with when taking more levels in Fighter, given the increased versatility offered by Maneuvers (there are very few that specifically need a melee weapon attack to be used).
Should spell-like abilities not be an issue for you, then Arcane Archer is another Fighter subclass to take into consideration, as it revolves around being, well, an Archer.
Going Fighter would give you better basic survivability (higher HD and scaling Second Wind), increased number of attacks and more ASI. Going Rogue would give you more ad-hoc survivability (Uncanny dodge and Evasion), better skills (Expertise), higher burst damage thanks to the increasing Sneak Attack dice and higher mobility.
It mostly depends on what idea you had for your character as a person :)
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
The idea for the character is that she's a Feral Child who managed to steal a bow and some arrows from a trading caravan that camped near her home. She's very mundane so no magic or magic-like abilities and also a bit simple-minded. She's just highly practised with her bow.
Scout looks really thematic and Ranger-like which is what I would have prefered. Inquisitive also caught my eye and seems to fit her - but then Battlemaster is just so flexible. It's a difficult choice. Would a half-and-half Rogue/Fighter be viable or would it lose too much from both classes?
Some of your decision should also come down to the Proficiencies and Skills... and stacking the Rogue's Expertise on top of those, if possible, is nice.
The idea for the character is that she's a Feral Child who managed to steal a bow and some arrows from a trading caravan that camped near her home. She's very mundane so no magic or magic-like abilities and also a bit simple-minded. She's just highly practised with her bow.
Scout looks really thematic and Ranger-like which is what I would have prefered. Inquisitive also caught my eye and seems to fit her - but then Battlemaster is just so flexible. It's a difficult choice. Would a half-and-half Rogue/Fighter be viable or would it lose too much from both classes?
Scout seems most definitely the best fit for your character idea, imho.
As to a "middle ground" (Scout + Battle Master sounds like a sweet combo) it is mostly a matter of what level you think the campaign will get to and if yuo'd be more interested in increasing your Sneak Attack damage or go deeper into. I think, though, that at least lvl 7 Rogue should be a priority (outside of 1 level of Fighter as soon as you'd like to have the Archery Fighting style), due to Evasion being an amazing feature to have for a character like yours, imho. On the other hand 6 levels of Fighter give you a total of 2 ASI already, Action Surge and a second attack on your turn, which is always nice...
My best advice? Go the road that feels more natural to your character as they grow in the game. If they prefer lurking around and getting to best possible spot to shoot the one-shot-one-kill arrow, go mostly Rogue; if they prefer making their enemies pin-cushions and control the battlefield, more levels in Fighter seem the way to go.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Turning enemies into pin cushions sounds like fun but so does dropping a handful of d6's in one hit. I may have to play the character twice with each build at this rate!
Rogue-Scount until Evasion is probably the more appropriate choice for RP and that's the most important so I will plan for that. Thanks LeK.
Turning enemies into pin cushions sounds like fun but so does dropping a handful of d6's in one hit. I may have to play the character twice with each build at this rate!
Rogue-Scount until Evasion is probably the more appropriate choice for RP and that's the most important so I will plan for that. Thanks LeK.
Always a pleasure being of help :)
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Archers are my favorite. I like going 1st level rogue for the skills and expertise (stealth/perception), 2nd to 6th ranger (2nd level ranger fighting style, 3rd Hunter w/horde breaker, 4th feat sharpshooter, 5th x-attack), then back to rogue....scout is great. Skulker feat also is another must. Rogue/Ranger I think gives the best feeling for the stealthy/hunter/skirmisher/sniper. At 6th level level You have the possibility of 3 shots aimed at a +2 to hit, no modifier for range or cover, advantage possibly on your attacks, doing 1d8+13 damage each, plus 1d6 back strike and whatever spells added on top...
Archers are my favorite. I like going 1st level rogue for the skills and expertise (stealth/perception), 2nd to 6th ranger (2nd level ranger fighting style, 3rd Hunter w/horde breaker, 4th feat sharpshooter, 5th x-attack), then back to rogue....scout is great. Skulker feat also is another must. Rogue/Ranger I think gives the best feeling for the stealthy/hunter/skirmisher/sniper. At 6th level level You have the possibility of 3 shots aimed at a +2 to hit, no modifier for range or cover, advantage possibly on your attacks, doing 1d8+13 damage each, plus 1d6 back strike and whatever spells added on top...
Ranger/Rogue is indeed the best overall combo, given the access to the best archery-enhancing spells around.
Rogue/Fighter is a close second, though, and with maaaaybe a little bit of an edge on combat versatility (at the expense of potential damage) choosing Battle Master?
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
It may be a little more complicated than you are interested in, but a Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock can make an amazing archer.
This sounds pretty interesting, I hadn't considered a warlock. I'd actually be interested in a Trickster sort of archer, using specialty arrows or magic to surprise and confuse.
Does hexblade work with ranged weapons? What would a warlock archer play like? Would I be primarily a spellcaster or archer? Also, it seems like the hex warrior charisma modifier wouldn't work on bows. It explicitly excludes two-handed weapons. Unless I'm missing something blatantly obvious.
Does hexblade work with ranged weapons? What would a warlock archer play like? Would I be primarily a spellcaster or archer? Also, it seems like the hex warrior charisma modifier wouldn't work on bows. It explicitly excludes two-handed weapons. Unless I'm missing something blatantly obvious.
You would have to take the Improved Pact Weapon invocation at level 3 - until then, no CHA modifiers to DAM. But, guessing your DEX is high, especially if you take any Rogue.
You would take Thirsting Blade (Arrow?) at level 5 for 2 attacks.
Be a Wizard, with a staff that happens to be joined at the ends with a string. Then announce to the world that you are Mostlytrout, the Mystic Archer. Everytime you cast Firebolt or Magic Missile, you lift your staff and pull the string to fire your "enchanted arrows".
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
At level 3 you can take Pact of the Blade and Improved Pact Weapon invocation, which will let you turn a bow into your Pact Weapon. At that point you will also be able to add a bunch of Invocations to improve your damage output, and Hex is a nice bonus action damage boost, though it loses steam at higher levels. Thirsting Blade gives you a second attack at level 5. Eldritch Smite will give you an extra 1d8 plus 1d8/spell level when you would like (usually saved for crits). Improved Pact Weapon lets you use the bow (as we said) but also makes it a +1 to hit +1 to damage magical weapon. Maddening Hex lets you deal extra damage to your Hexed target and all other enemies within 5 feet equal to your CHA mod, that's also level 5. Lifedrinker lets you add your CHA modifier a second time (!) to damage, that's level 12.
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So I am confident I want to be a halfling archer, but as a noob, I am unsure of the some of the mechanical differences between ranger, fighter and rogue archers. I'm leaning towards a Fighter (Arcane Archer) simply because I like the idea of trick/specialty arrows.
Though, I'd appreciate a quick breakdown of different types of archers. I would be especially interested to see someone make a good case for the ranger because I don't understand what the ranger offers to counter the rogue's sneak attack or the fighter's survivability.
The ranger offers spells, favored terrain, and favored enemy. Basically, a lot of non-combat abilities that are kind of unique to them.
I think rogues make the best archers because of sneak attack and cunning action. Rogues and archers both favor being out of the fray.
Fighters and Rangers are kind of tied. They both get a fighting style and get extra attack at level 5. The ranger has more versatility with its spells and features, while the fighter gets more ASIs and more extra attacks making it more optimised for battle.
I highly recommend a level of Fighter or 2 levels of Ranger for the Archery Fighting Style +2 to hit on ranged attacks is awesome, then going Rogue. Take the Sharpshooter feat and Shortbow rocks. Take the Skulker Feat so you don't give your hidden position away in case of a miss. The Crossbow Expert Feat can grant you a second crossbow attack if you use a hand crossbow. This is my sniper here https://ddb.ac/characters/4528035/SRyxkm as you can see I went 5 levels as a Ranger Gloomstalker before going Rogue. Not done with the build yet still need Skulker. I am going to go Inquisitive Rogue for him
Gloomstalker ranger is a good dip. Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer, and Primal Awareness are more neat than mechanically useful (like the paladin's divine sense).
But a fighting style, spellcasting, extra attack, dread ambusher, and umbral sight are all beneficial. And since the rogue doesn't have much going on besides sneak, skills, and good rolls, it can add a bit of depth to the character.
*I just wish Urban could be a favored terrain, but I guess they didn't want to accidently give the base a ranger a good ability.
I've been wondering the same thing except for my character I've specifically excluded spellcasting because it doesn't make sense for her. I'd love to make her a spellless Ranger but D&DB doesn't really support it very well and it just complicates things.
Instead I know she's going to start with 1 level in Rogue and will definitely have at least 1 level in Fighter for the Archery Fighting Style. But beyond that I don't know whether to go full Rogue or full Fighter or mix and match - let alone what subclass(es) she'd be.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
If you have the chance, give a look at the Scout Rogue subclass, they are specifically tailored to be the ranged "spec" for Rogues.
Alternatively, as you do not want to have spells (and I guess spell-like abilities are also out of the question) the Battle Master is always a good option to go with when taking more levels in Fighter, given the increased versatility offered by Maneuvers (there are very few that specifically need a melee weapon attack to be used).
Should spell-like abilities not be an issue for you, then Arcane Archer is another Fighter subclass to take into consideration, as it revolves around being, well, an Archer.
Going Fighter would give you better basic survivability (higher HD and scaling Second Wind), increased number of attacks and more ASI.
Going Rogue would give you more ad-hoc survivability (Uncanny dodge and Evasion), better skills (Expertise), higher burst damage thanks to the increasing Sneak Attack dice and higher mobility.
It mostly depends on what idea you had for your character as a person :)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
The idea for the character is that she's a Feral Child who managed to steal a bow and some arrows from a trading caravan that camped near her home. She's very mundane so no magic or magic-like abilities and also a bit simple-minded. She's just highly practised with her bow.
Scout looks really thematic and Ranger-like which is what I would have prefered. Inquisitive also caught my eye and seems to fit her - but then Battlemaster is just so flexible. It's a difficult choice. Would a half-and-half Rogue/Fighter be viable or would it lose too much from both classes?
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Some of your decision should also come down to the Proficiencies and Skills... and stacking the Rogue's Expertise on top of those, if possible, is nice.
Scout seems most definitely the best fit for your character idea, imho.
As to a "middle ground" (Scout + Battle Master sounds like a sweet combo) it is mostly a matter of what level you think the campaign will get to and if yuo'd be more interested in increasing your Sneak Attack damage or go deeper into.
I think, though, that at least lvl 7 Rogue should be a priority (outside of 1 level of Fighter as soon as you'd like to have the Archery Fighting style), due to Evasion being an amazing feature to have for a character like yours, imho.
On the other hand 6 levels of Fighter give you a total of 2 ASI already, Action Surge and a second attack on your turn, which is always nice...
My best advice? Go the road that feels more natural to your character as they grow in the game. If they prefer lurking around and getting to best possible spot to shoot the one-shot-one-kill arrow, go mostly Rogue; if they prefer making their enemies pin-cushions and control the battlefield, more levels in Fighter seem the way to go.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
It may be a little more complicated than you are interested in, but a Hexblade Pact of the Blade Warlock can make an amazing archer.
Turning enemies into pin cushions sounds like fun but so does dropping a handful of d6's in one hit. I may have to play the character twice with each build at this rate!
Rogue-Scount until Evasion is probably the more appropriate choice for RP and that's the most important so I will plan for that. Thanks LeK.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Always a pleasure being of help :)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Archers are my favorite. I like going 1st level rogue for the skills and expertise (stealth/perception), 2nd to 6th ranger (2nd level ranger fighting style, 3rd Hunter w/horde breaker, 4th feat sharpshooter, 5th x-attack), then back to rogue....scout is great. Skulker feat also is another must. Rogue/Ranger I think gives the best feeling for the stealthy/hunter/skirmisher/sniper. At 6th level level You have the possibility of 3 shots aimed at a +2 to hit, no modifier for range or cover, advantage possibly on your attacks, doing 1d8+13 damage each, plus 1d6 back strike and whatever spells added on top...
Ranger/Rogue is indeed the best overall combo, given the access to the best archery-enhancing spells around.
Rogue/Fighter is a close second, though, and with maaaaybe a little bit of an edge on combat versatility (at the expense of potential damage) choosing Battle Master?
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
This sounds pretty interesting, I hadn't considered a warlock. I'd actually be interested in a Trickster sort of archer, using specialty arrows or magic to surprise and confuse.
Does hexblade work with ranged weapons? What would a warlock archer play like? Would I be primarily a spellcaster or archer? Also, it seems like the hex warrior charisma modifier wouldn't work on bows. It explicitly excludes two-handed weapons. Unless I'm missing something blatantly obvious.
You would have to take the Improved Pact Weapon invocation at level 3 - until then, no CHA modifiers to DAM. But, guessing your DEX is high, especially if you take any Rogue.
You would take Thirsting Blade (Arrow?) at level 5 for 2 attacks.
Probably wouldn't even need Eldritch Blast...
Be a Wizard, with a staff that happens to be joined at the ends with a string. Then announce to the world that you are Mostlytrout, the Mystic Archer. Everytime you cast Firebolt or Magic Missile, you lift your staff and pull the string to fire your "enchanted arrows".
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
At level 3 you can take Pact of the Blade and Improved Pact Weapon invocation, which will let you turn a bow into your Pact Weapon. At that point you will also be able to add a bunch of Invocations to improve your damage output, and Hex is a nice bonus action damage boost, though it loses steam at higher levels. Thirsting Blade gives you a second attack at level 5. Eldritch Smite will give you an extra 1d8 plus 1d8/spell level when you would like (usually saved for crits). Improved Pact Weapon lets you use the bow (as we said) but also makes it a +1 to hit +1 to damage magical weapon. Maddening Hex lets you deal extra damage to your Hexed target and all other enemies within 5 feet equal to your CHA mod, that's also level 5. Lifedrinker lets you add your CHA modifier a second time (!) to damage, that's level 12.