One thing a lot of people don't realize about rules lawyers is that many of us don't do it out of a need for control, or as a way to look for advantage in the game, or as a power play, but because we feel that's how the game is supposed to go, and it bothers us when mistakes are made. Breaking the rules is cheating, even if unintentionally, and even if not done for personal gain. If the DM allows a character to live after having failed 3 Death Saving Throws, it's breaking a rule, and therefore cheating. If a DM moves a token of a monster with 30' speed 7 squares, and then attacks, that's breaking a rule, and therefore cheating. Rules lawyers are very annoyed by that, and will work to correct it. On the other hand, while rules lawyers want rules to be followed, many of us have no problems with changing the set of rules that are to be followed, as long as it's done deliberately and openly. I, for example, have no problems with a DM ruling that "it now takes 4 failed death saves to die permanently". I mean, in some cases I might disagree, and will try to convince the DM to rule differently, but not because "the book says otherwise", but rather because I feel the rule is bad in some way. For example, if a DM decided to rule that "concentration can be maintained even when taking damage without having to roll for it", I'd disagree with that rule, because it makes Concentration spells significantly more powerful, so it creates an imbalance in the game.
Thank you!!! I consider myself a "Rules Lawyer", and I definitely don't talk about rules with my DM(s)/player(s) out of a need for control/power. Tabletop RPGs are complicated messes of logical premises that often lead to situations where there is conflict between one or more of these premises, and the end results are not always clear. DM discretion and house rules are the most productive ways to end those conflicts within an individual campaign. When these moments happen, all that I am ever interested in is establishing what the house rules are going to be regarding the issue, so that it can be consistently applied for the rest of the campaign. Most often these discussions occur throughout the early phases of a new group/campaign (when most rules based questions/character conundrums occur), and then tapers off significantly after a couple of levels. That is how good litigation is done. Most campaigns don't make it past this stage, so it's understandable that popular conception is skewed.
That said, there are definitely people that are only concerned with their own control/power (and it sounds like that's Steve). They are not Rules Lawyers!
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thank you!!! I consider myself a "Rules Lawyer", and I definitely don't talk about rules with my DM(s)/player(s) out of a need for control/power. Tabletop RPGs are complicated messes of logical premises that often lead to situations where there is conflict between one or more of these premises, and the end results are not always clear. DM discretion and house rules are the most productive ways to end those conflicts within an individual campaign. When these moments happen, all that I am ever interested in is establishing what the house rules are going to be regarding the issue, so that it can be consistently applied for the rest of the campaign. Most often these discussions occur throughout the early phases of a new group/campaign (when most rules based questions/character conundrums occur), and then tapers off significantly after a couple of levels. That is how good litigation is done. Most campaigns don't make it past this stage, so it's understandable that popular conception is skewed.
That said, there are definitely people that are only concerned with their own control/power (and it sounds like that's Steve). They are not Rules Lawyers!
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Maybe watch Matt‘s video about problem players... https://youtu.be/-lEi9DAn9rE