Quote from mouse0270 >>

I fully believe and myself as a GM have had an NPC include themselves inside an AOE spell, my argument at that moment was that the NPC couldn't target my character because he was charmed by me. Which if you are playing strictly by the rules he can not. Then the argument became over the fact that the spell didn't say anything about targets just creatures inside the radius. 

The whole thing boiled down to semantics, and I wish I hadn't spent that time arguing is all.

I don't see how this is a tough argument to win.

• If the authors of the spell intended for it to be so easily broken by "I wasn't targeting you I was targeting your clothes", then why include the rule at all?

Quote from Wysperra >>

Correct. As quoted, cannot attack the charmer or target the charmer.

The target of a Fireball is a point in space.

The target of Ice Knife is the target but Ice Knife has an AOE.

The target of Cloudkill is a point in space, but it moves on its own. 

No matter, as long as you're consistent as  GM.

 This further's my legalese on the matter.

• If the target cannot be attacked, then why include also, "cannot be targeted", unless it refers to the fact that AOE spells don't attack creatures they included them in a targeted area.
• The author's intentions are very clear.

Also, Crown of Madness looks better than I think it was given by the OP.

It

1. takes an attacker off your threat list
2. gives you their attack to do with as you please for the next round
3. allows your allies to get attacks of opportunity as the creature is forced to move out of range of your selected target or else be continuously charmed.

How many spells: are simultaneously giving you a defense, an attack, and your allies attacks of opportunity?

That being said, it's a very limited version of those buffs.

Quote from IDNeon357 >>

Also, Crown of Madness looks better than I think it was given by the OP.

It

1. takes an attacker off your threat list
2. gives you their attack to do with as you please for the next round
3. allows your allies to get attacks of opportunity as the creature is forced to move out of range of your selected target or else be continuously charmed.

How many spells: are simultaneously giving you a defense, an attack, and your allies attacks of opportunity?

That being said, it's a very limited version of those buffs.

 
See this is what I thought too... but it really boils down to where the creature you cast crown of madness on was at.

In this particular case, they were not right next to something they could attack, therefore they got to act freely.

1. They only lose their attack action if they are within melee attack range of a target at the START of their turn. If not then they get to act freely as if the spell was not cast on them
2. Once again it only gives you their attack actions for the next round assuming they are standing next to something for them to attack. And if this is true all they have to do for future rounds is stay out of 5 ft of their allies.
3. They are no requirement for them to move forcing attacks of opportunity. Being charmed means he isn't allowed to attack me, but he is free to attack any of my allies as he chooses.

Quote from mouse0270 >>

Quote from IDNeon357 >>

Also, Crown of Madness looks better than I think it was given by the OP.

It

1. takes an attacker off your threat list
2. gives you their attack to do with as you please for the next round
3. allows your allies to get attacks of opportunity as the creature is forced to move out of range of your selected target or else be continuously charmed.

How many spells: are simultaneously giving you a defense, an attack, and your allies attacks of opportunity?

That being said, it's a very limited version of those buffs.

 
See this is what I thought too... but it really boils down to where the creature you cast crown of madness on was at.

In this particular case, they were not right next to something they could attack, therefore they got to act freely.

1. They only lose their attack action if they are within melee attack range of a target at the START of their turn. If not then they get to act freely as if the spell was not cast on them
2. Once again it only gives you their attack actions for the next round assuming they are standing next to something for them to attack. And if this is true all they have to do for future rounds is stay out of 5 ft of their allies.
3. They are no requirement for them to move forcing attacks of opportunity. Being charmed means he isn't allowed to attack me, but he is free to attack any of my allies as he chooses.

 Definitely, hence it's only level 2. It seems geared toward crowd control in a unique set of circumstance.

In the case of them not moving, it means you get to force the target to move.

As I understood it, you can use his attack so the creature is at least down ONE attack.

Also, in that mechanic it's more like "taunt", where you use it as if an ally taunted that creature away from attacking you. Perhaps it's a powerful caster and you would rather not get fireballed to the face but are less concerned about some of your tanks?

If the charmed creature is:

1. Not next to something to attack.
2. Not in a crowd of your allies.

Then this spell does lose a lot of its "charm". bwahahaa

Quote from IDNeon357 >>

 Definitely, hence it's only level 2. It seems geared toward crowd control in a unique set of circumstance.

In the case of them not moving, it means you get to force the target to move.

As I understood it, you can use his attack so the creature is at least down ONE attack.

Also, in that mechanic it's more like "taunt", where you use it as if an ally taunted that creature away from attacking you. Perhaps it's a powerful caster and you would rather not get fireballed to the face but are less concerned about some of your tanks?

If the charmed creature is:

1. Not next to something to attack.
2. Not in a crowd of your allies.

Then this spell does lose a lot of its "charm". bwahahaa

See that is my problem with the spell, it can be incredibly useless or extremely useful. To me, the spell has too many situational requirements to be a spell I want to be prepared. I was playing a Bard, so I could only change my spells at level up. If this was a spell I could take knowing what I was planning for the day, I would like it more. To me, this spell was taking up a useful spell slot that could be replaced with a spell-like Suggestion.

The two spells are almost diametrically opposed. I love Suggestion as well, but it can't really be used in combat.

I guess it depends - properly used Suggestion can avoid a fight altogether.

Quote from Wysperra >>

The two spells are almost diametrically opposed. I love Suggestion as well, but it can't really be used in combat.

I guess it depends - properly used Suggestion can avoid a fight altogether.

 
I fully agree with you that suggestion can't be used in combat, but it is always useful outside of combat. 

Crown of Madness is situationally useful within combat and even less so outside of combat.

Basically out of the two I think Suggestion has overall more usefulness. Even technically speaking I have already got more use out of suggestion than I have crown of madness since I made the switch when I leveled up.

The worst part of Crown of Madness is that every turn it takes your action to maintain it. So you're taking yourself (almost) entirely out of the fight (unless you have bonus action stuff) to double agent the target.

And as others have said they have to be in melee at the start of their turn to do the forced attack or they can attack as normal. So it's not going to work every round.

It's terrible.